Marks buff yay!

[Windthorn]

I was surprised to see the survival buffs. The spec wasn't hugely behind BM in ST encounters (5%), this buff should bring Surv almost on par with BM. Not to sure how MM will sit, not played it since firelands, I'm hoping I can stick to survival for ST now, but who isn't tempted by seeing what burst MM can do in CA phase now. Finally a day for us to be happy, need those number crunchers to start doing some maths and see which spec is best ST. Enjoyed BM but would love to go Surv all the way, maybe MM for the lols just to see that burst. MM I presume still scales better even with the changes in scaling in mop.

[Luneward]

Damn... I hope they change those, really would hate to play as MM again :/

Then.... don't. Unless you're one of those whizzes that can execute every spec perfectly and get the most out of it, and are running cutting end progression it either:

A- Won't be beneficial to you since you're more comfortable with the spec you run OR:
B- Won't have a meaningful impact on normal encounters, and only a minimal effect on sub 1-2% wipes (which still mean your raid hasn't quite gotten the fight right, so you would have still wiped a lot the next week you return to it)

[iggie]

Doesn't matter, that SV buff just GG'd the competition.

Best spec for everything now

Pretty much. Even single target BM will be useless. SV/MM for everything now! yay....

[Disfunctionz]

I dont think these MM buffs will be enough to put MM competitive with BM in pvp.
BM has much more utility and usefulness compared.(especially the extra trinks)
Even if MM had really good burst, I dont see it happening.(considering BM has rlly good burst, and somewhat more controllable aswell.)
IMO MM pvp is outdated and just doesnt fit mop style pvp.
I think overall its just nostalgia that makes ppl want it.
One of the biggest niches MM had in cata was kiting, and its just not possible like it used to be(too many gap closers nowadays)
IMO it would take a massive revamp of MM for it to be competitive, mainly needing more utility, but maybe even a different playstyle of dmg dealing.
One thing to think of is, imagine BM in cata with readiness and silence shot.
If the above sentence where true, what spec would be better in cata?

[Zeherah]

Don't worry, Zeherah will put them in, but you can do some math with the results now and find the dps increase of them. It gets the job done at least.

On a side note: this should make mastery even better for SV.

---------- Post added 2013-02-20 at 04:00 AM ----------

For me the buffs as SV would yield me 4904.364 dps in femaledwarf. BM is simming 6774.89 dps ahead of SV for me so a 1870.526 dps difference. SV looks like it's going to be top imo. SV gets 830.09 dps from the 4 piece and 1248.81 from the 2 piece. BM gets 2343.25 from the 2 piece and 2706.35 from the 4 piece. BM would be losing 5049.6 dps and SV would be losing 2078.9 dps. With the tier bonuses next tier being about even in comparison, but benefiting SV more ever so slightly and the meta favoring SV, SV should be top.


So with the changes BM is simming 1870.526 dps higher than SV, but will be losing 2970.7 more dps when you start to shed your tier. With the next tier bonuses and the legendary meta benefiting SV it should be top.

I can't do MM because for some reason femaledwarf isn't simulating the .4 sec reduction. I'll try to get some numbers though.

The changes are on the site now, you just have to enable PTR changes to see them. I'm not sure what you mean about the .4 sec reduction, did you turn on the PTR changes? It should be working if you did.

When I simmed all 3 specs were extremely close together with BM just slightly ahead. My MM config isn't very optimized though so it may be better than it's simming for me.

[Tehstool]

The changes are on the site now, you just have to enable PTR changes to see them. I'm not sure what you mean about the .4 sec reduction, did you turn on the PTR changes? It should be working if you did.

When I simmed all 3 specs were extremely close together with BM just slightly ahead. My MM config isn't very optimized though so it may be better than it's simming for me.

Thanks for keeping your hunter simulator updated and working, I appreciate it! I checked enable PTR changes for MM and is says that it is using AiS, but it's not doing the change for some reason. I don't know what I'm doing wrong. I'll have to mess with it.

---------- Post added 2013-02-20 at 08:21 AM ----------

It appears that it is working now. Not sure what I did.

[Deleted]

I wouldn't be too quick to say this unless if MM offers incredible burst compared to BM. The extra trinket BM has is huge.

Well for arena you might be right and i do aggree on this BM has MORE then MM has to offer. But even this patch , if i go just for cap as MM it doesn't work that bad and things doesn't go as awfull as i expected. So seeing this DMG buffs i hope 5.2 will be a new era of Marks.

That said Marks still brings nothing usefull to the table compared to BM. No extra trinket, Extra CC. But after playing BM for almost a year ( yes i played it back in cataclysm to , 4.3 ) I got bored of the spec and it is mostly about burst. Wich i do not like that much after so many games of playing. I am glad seeing these buffs and i hope they give Marks something usefull and unique. Like some form of new CC ( surv has trap mastery , BM has intimidate, now what does marks have ? )

[Thiron]

Well, MM brings better self-heal (weak but still something), auto-daze on chimera, lets you kite DKs without them healing on your pet. I'd say the benefits are somewhat equal to SV's trap CD and DoTs, but BM's trinket is just so good.

[Deleted]

Well, MM brings better self-heal (weak but still something), auto-daze on chimera, lets you kite DKs without them healing on your pet. I'd say the benefits are somewhat equal to SV's trap CD and DoTs, but BM's trinket is just so good.

Well have you compared MM heal to BM heal ? Caus as far as i am seeing and playing since cataclysm BM has and always will have a better selfheal. If they change that spirit beast are wide open to all hunters ( or the heal ) all the other 3 specs will lack behind on healing.

[Libertarian]

Just checked everything on FD and it all seems around the same, but survival will most likely pull ahead with tier.

Edit: I'm looking at less than a 1% difference. Now remember, these changes are going to bring our lowest dps spec up with our highest (BM) but not make us much better than where we are now. Currently BM is around 2k more dps, but could be affected by error. And of course tier may change this and meta to favor survival.

[Kjalar]

So hyped about the SV buffs. God I'm fucking pumped for 5.2

Same here. Love SV, but it's also great to be able to switch specs from time to time just to keep the gameplay fresh without hurting raid DPS too much.
Really looking forward to finally dropping that clunky BM and trying MM in 5.2!

[Windthorn]

I honestly feel that my offspec will gather dust. I am so so happy about the buffs to Survival. I've not played MM since Firelands, may try it out but for now I am keep Survival all the way, spec I played since wrath and always liked.

[Anium]

Sure these are great changes, and definitely needed for MM, but I'm not going to start jumping up and down until launch. I can see these numbers getting changed/nerfed just as easily, but I'm welcoming the idea of MM being a pvp spec again!

[Deleted]

The changes are on the site now, you just have to enable PTR changes to see them. I'm not sure what you mean about the .4 sec reduction, did you turn on the PTR changes? It should be working if you did.

When I simmed all 3 specs were extremely close together with BM just slightly ahead. My MM config isn't very optimized though so it may be better than it's simming for me.

sorry the question , but where i enable that?

p.s. nvm, i saw that already

[gulder]

Yay SV!

/10char

---------- Post added 2013-02-20 at 04:37 PM ----------

I still don't see a reason to play MM in PvE though. Not that that's a bad thing, I'm personally in favor of a pvp spec and a pve spec rather than this jack of all trades master of none thing they try to accomplish.

[Deleted]

I am happier for the SV buffs than I am for the MM buffs, MM just feels too clunky too me.

[Raldazzar]

great news for pvp hunters I feel..

I wonder how SV will compete in pvp now.. will it be able to stand up with the other specs?

[Deleted]

Finally something. Not sure how MM will stand against SV tho, propably SV will still outclass it by fairly large margin. It's not far behind BM atm, buffing signatures by 15% well, can go icky. We won't have so many free explosives tho, current 4set is awesome for SV.

MM is more haste-dependent spec, we got plenty of haste on our 5.2 gear, including the very large stacking buff trinket, which seems to be 100% up time, or near-100%. We'll see how it turns out.

[Flaim]

- Hearing lots of concerns about Power Shot in PvP, so we may need a PvP-specific tweak there

why am i thinking of them implementing an ilvl dependent scaling? :X

[pkm]

Hunter sitting at 3 bars from 90. If these changes make it through ill have a reason to get him to 90! Bm is sooooo boring.