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  1. #321
    I am also almost done as a mage. There's only so much gear with certain stats I can collect/upgrade from week to week while they whack-a-mole each spec in turn.

    I've been holding onto hope throughout the start of this xpac, but at this point I've lost almost all patience. There seems to be a definite agenda to quickly hobble any excellent mage spec in MoP. I did not roll an original pure dps class to perform at 'middle of the pack' numbers in all 3 specs.

    I am absolutely sick of the terrible mobility, relatively long ramp-up times, & unimpressive aoe/nerfed cleave. I am happy with the choices in survivability talents, but that's about it. I love my toon and the mage class as a whole but there is a limit to what I'm going to put up with. We'll see what happens when 5.2 goes live; if things continue to be this depressing, it's time I retired.

  2. #322
    Quote Originally Posted by Cyberowl View Post
    I'm sure you liked your safe #1 slot and I don't say pure DPS shouldn't be a bit ahead of hybrids (coming from a Moonkin), but being uncatchable for everyone else but warlocks on certain fights if you don't suck as hell isn't the solution either...
    Moonkins were better in most progress fights during early 5.0 compared to mages, and the same will the case in 5.2(or at least seems like it). The problem aint really single target, its just that mages have no real aoe atm. So it just seems that the fights that require aoe, mages are just gonna be benched. And for the rest depending on many factors we might get raid spots as frost. This is HC progress PoV btw. As for anything other than that, you prolly wont get benched as its still hard to find decent players, but its not looking like it will be fun either.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-27 at 11:45 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyberowl View Post
    it's still PTR
    Ye and everything is pointing towards 5.2 coming out next week.. then again they might hit a roadblock and its 2 weeks from now.

  3. #323
    Field Marshal Calypso's Avatar
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    i was looking forward to playing fire again next patch but after this nerf to one of the weaker dps specs i am tempted to reroll moonkin/warlock or stop playing wow for awhile, i realy hope they fix mages before the next patch comes out if not i will be a sadpanda

  4. #324
    Quote Originally Posted by Lei Shi View Post
    "Haunt debuff now increases all damage done by your spells on the target by 30% for 8 sec, up from 25%." - This is ridiculous.
    Yeah, I don't understand what the hell they're doing with warlocks. Currently you could give them a flat 10% nerf and they'd still be #1.

  5. #325
    Quote Originally Posted by mrgreenthump View Post
    Moonkins were better in most progress fights during early 5.0 compared to mages, and the same will the case in 5.2(or at least seems like it). The problem aint really single target, its just that mages have no real aoe atm. So it just seems that the fights that require aoe, mages are just gonna be benched. And for the rest depending on many factors we might get raid spots as frost. This is HC progress PoV btw. As for anything other than that, you prolly wont get benched as its still hard to find decent players, but its not looking like it will be fun either.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-27 at 11:45 PM ----------



    Ye and everything is pointing towards 5.2 coming out next week.. then again they might hit a roadblock and its 2 weeks from now.
    Moonkins were quite badass in MSV (ruling dem charts bro) until Mages catched up on gear (fortunately we were almost done until the mages could catch up), "sucked" in HoF and are good again in ToeS, I'm really not complaining. The problem is the biggest progress was made in HoF and ToeS, MSV didn't really matter (imo).

    And I also raid in a Top 50 world guild and I know that some classes/specs get skipped in HC progression on certain fights, but I just can't remember Mages being useless for a long, long while...so forgive me if I don't think mages will be useless in the next tier...and I agree that mages have "bad" AoE compared to Locks, hunters, DKs and ferals, but so do other specs and they still do fine.

    Yes, 5.2 may come out next week and you just got nerfed...what makes it unlikely you won't be buffed soon? They are still doing changes man :P

  6. #326
    Fire just got the nerf bat (guess it was expected..) CM is down to 1.2

    Fire
    Critical Mass now multiplies the critical strike chance of your Fireball, Frostfire Bolt, Pyroblast, and Scorch by 1.20, down from 1.3.

  7. #327
    Brewmaster Methusula's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arghh151 View Post
    Fire just got the nerf bat (guess it was expected..) CM is down to 1.2

    Fire
    Critical Mass now multiplies the critical strike chance of your Fireball, Frostfire Bolt, Pyroblast, and Scorch by 1.20, down from 1.3.
    We literally just spent the last 2 pages talking about this...

  8. #328
    Moderator Shangalar's Avatar
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    While I have been constantly thinking that Fire needs to be nerfed before 5.2, I really didn't want it to be through Critical Mass again. It's not unexpected because it's an amazing tuning ability, but I think Pyroblast damage is a greater factor. Currently a billion people are complaining about Pyroblast (facemelt shatter combos in PvP) and nerfing it by just a bit - 5-10% might have been enough to balance both PvE and PvP. Also by nerfing Pyroblast you also reduce the overall value of critical mass without actually touching critical mass.

  9. #329
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shangalar View Post
    While I have been constantly thinking that Fire needs to be nerfed before 5.2, I really didn't want it to be through Critical Mass again. It's not unexpected because it's an amazing tuning ability, but I think Pyroblast damage is a greater factor. Currently a billion people are complaining about Pyroblast (facemelt shatter combos in PvP) and nerfing it by just a bit - 5-10% might have been enough to balance both PvE and PvP. Also by nerfing Pyroblast you also reduce the overall value of critical mass without actually touching critical mass.
    It probably needs a nerf to Pyroblast on top of the CM nerf in the end, considering their excessive scaling. Why don't they reduce the scaling factors of spells like they did with Arcane?

  10. #330
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    why dont they make CM just the flat 5% it used to be? or scrap it and make it so when im fire molten armor is 10% same thing just applied differently so they dont ahve to keep messing with a dumb multiplier
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    sometimes when im alone i like to cover myself in vaseline and pretend im a slug
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    I like to glue my thumbs to my nipples and pretend I'm a T-Rex.

  11. #331
    Quote Originally Posted by Shangalar View Post
    While I have been constantly thinking that Fire needs to be nerfed before 5.2, I really didn't want it to be through Critical Mass again. It's not unexpected because it's an amazing tuning ability, but I think Pyroblast damage is a greater factor. Currently a billion people are complaining about Pyroblast (facemelt shatter combos in PvP) and nerfing it by just a bit - 5-10% might have been enough to balance both PvE and PvP. Also by nerfing Pyroblast you also reduce the overall value of critical mass without actually touching critical mass.
    This Nerfing CM is just a horrible way of doing it totally kills the Fun factor in the spec and effects lower level geared mages

  12. #332
    Quote Originally Posted by Shangalar View Post
    I really didn't want it to be through Critical Mass again. It's not unexpected because it's an amazing tuning ability, but I think Pyroblast damage is a greater factor
    I was thinking about this point too, mainly with the first CM nerf.

    I think I figured out why they are going for CM instead of Pyro. They WANT pyro to hit like a truck. And I agree. I want to feel the zomg in my dpspants when I throw pyros at someones face. How do you keep that feeling of 'zomg' in your pants while still nerfing throughput?

    You could nerf the other spells, but this is fire. What other spells? Bombs? Can't nerf bombs coz then you could nerf the other specs too. Can't nerf fireball since you might need to nerf it to a point well below even scorch to get the desired behavior. Similarly, to get the desired change you would prob need to nerf IB to doing no damage.

    Instead, you really only have the ability to nerf the frequency of the zomgpyros. Which is what they do with CM. Personally, I think it both sucks and is good.

    It sucks because fire is boring as hell to play without crits going off. Good because of the exact same thing, maybe this will go to show just how boring fire really is and give us all some drive to get the gameplay of the spec improved.

    I deeply believe one of the reason so many mages "prefer fire" is because they are getting a skewed "too many pyros" version of it. When they realize that the spec is soo boring without tons of pyros going around, they will desire change and an improvement to the spec.

    Which is a good thing in the long run.

  13. #333
    Quote Originally Posted by zomgDPS View Post
    I was thinking about this point too, mainly with the first CM nerf.

    I think I figured out why they are going for CM instead of Pyro. They WANT pyro to hit like a truck. And I agree. I want to feel the zomg in my dpspants when I throw pyros at someones face. How do you keep that feeling of 'zomg' in your pants while still nerfing throughput?

    You could nerf the other spells, but this is fire. What other spells? Bombs? Can't nerf bombs coz then you could nerf the other specs too. Can't nerf fireball since you might need to nerf it to a point well below even scorch to get the desired behavior. Similarly, to get the desired change you would prob need to nerf IB to doing no damage.

    Instead, you really only have the ability to nerf the frequency of the zomgpyros. Which is what they do with CM. Personally, I think it both sucks and is good.

    It sucks because fire is boring as hell to play without crits going off. Good because of the exact same thing, maybe this will go to show just how boring fire really is and give us all some drive to get the gameplay of the spec improved.

    I deeply believe one of the reason so many mages "prefer fire" is because they are getting a skewed "too many pyros" version of it. When they realize that the spec is soo boring without tons of pyros going around, they will desire change and an improvement to the spec.

    Which is a good thing in the long run.
    Do you think Fire will get a revamp at some point during this expansion?

  14. #334
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    During this expansion definitely not and for the next expansion the only change for Fire I can see happening is one-two spells being added which will be used by all three specs and then everyone will be *fixed* by having more buttons to press.

    I'm fairly confident that Blizzard feels like they have revamped Fire for Mists of Pandaria with the new Critical Mass and with the addition of Inferno Blast into the game.

    And then to be completely honest, as zomgDPS mostly stated, I blame the players who still remember Icecrown Citadel 25-man heroic geared 70% crit chance unlimited Hot Streak spam. That will never happen again.

  15. #335
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    I'd like to see some real numbers, with proper reforges and enchants then knee jerk reactions. There was a lot of talk earlier about fire being too good at higher ilvl, and we all know Blizzard looks at that ilvl for their adjustments.

    I dont particularly like the CM adjustment, but I'll take it over Arcane's rotation. That said, need more data. More facts.
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  16. #336
    Quote Originally Posted by oraz4000 View Post
    Do you think Fire will get a revamp at some point during this expansion?
    Nope.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kiry View Post
    I'd like to see some real numbers, with proper reforges and enchants then knee jerk reactions. There was a lot of talk earlier about fire being too good at higher ilvl, and we all know Blizzard looks at that ilvl for their adjustments.

    I dont particularly like the CM adjustment, but I'll take it over Arcane's rotation. That said, need more data. More facts.
    More data should be incoming shortly. The SimC guys are working hard to get their end sorted out. As soon as they do, we will have a much clearer picture.

    That being said, we have done a significant amount of testing on the PTR. Fire is starting out very strong in 5.2. Given how it has historically behaved with better gear (and better crit), it was not a difficult projection that it would quite seriously be melting things down by the end.


    So while we do need more data, the warnings about fire just pulling out way ahead were hardly 'knee jerk'. Try it for yourself, we should have a little under a week of PTR left. Go play fire and compare it to the other specs. You can tell the difference.


    All we can hope for is a stable enough WoW build so that we can build SimC with the right numbers. As you can tell, they are still adjusting numbers with the 3% Arcane buff (which makes sense, the previous 3% nerf was unwarranted imho).

  17. #337
    I'd really like to see them bite the bullet, scrap CM, and turn heating up into a PPM mechanic rather than based on crit. I know this is unpopular because it fixes the frequency of hot streak so that you don't get an increase with gear, but isn't that what we want, really, when it comes to it? Too little and the spec is just no fun to play, too much and there's just no way to balance it without the spells that should feel powerful just being sort of meh compared to fireball spam. Make crit very important for how hard they hit. Maybe do something that adjusts the multiplier or makes bigger and bigger ignites as gear scales. But for the spec to play well at multiple gear levels, they really just need to decide how frequently we should be getting hot streaks and make that number fixed.
    Last edited by Dralektus; 2013-02-28 at 01:34 AM. Reason: and != at

  18. #338
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    The knee jerk I was talking about was the reaction to a build that has gone up in a matter of hours. Yes it's not nice to see reduction of CM, but we knew something was likely to happen. Better it happens now before the patch then weeks into the patch like the last one.

    I'm prepared to go full frost at the launch of 5.2, what I'm curious about is, at what point into 5.2 can I switch to fire? Or is just that bad now? I have to think it won't be, there is just that much crit gear in the patch.

    I'll be very interested what data points come up over night (after the build goes in).
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  19. #339
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    I'm fairly certain that with full normal gear Fire mages will once again overtake whatever and full normal gear probably won't be an issue since you have Nalak, Oondasta, Valor gear and 12 bosses.

  20. #340
    I don't understand at all how those people think... Sure it might be OP in higher gear levels but what's the point exactly to nerf something that will become OP in the future? How many will reach the BiS gear that will sky-rocket their DPS? Why should all the rest just keep on spamming FB if they want to play Fire?

    Seriourly... MoP Mage is such a design failure beyond description... I play from the start but I started raiding in TBC. Not high-end stuff so I was OK with myself... Wrath was better and cata was still OK... This ridiculous situation in MoP when everyone moves and casts and we need to stay on a circle is comical... And now... On top of everything our DPS will be shit... Yeah whatever...

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