[Mage] 5.2 PTR Discussion (based on Feb 19 notes)

[kirit0]

He is explaining why they are switching atm on his stream. The main reason is that warlocks and boomkins raping mages on evry situation on evry fight and they did test evry encounter on ptr norm/heroic etc

[spaace]

Go roll a warlock or boomkin with them then, and don't post here. Easy.


See you in 5.2 tuesday.

[kirit0]

Go roll a warlock or boomkin with them then, and don't post here. Easy.


See you in 5.2 tuesday.

Why so much hate! What's wrong with sharing the news? BTw who you are to tell me what to do huh and since when you are owning the forums!

[Ctz]

If people are switching characters based off them, they aren't very bright.

You really think he would switch because of biased simc ? He tested every fight. He's explaining Fire is very good at 530+, but because that won't happen before month it's not viable (for world first race still). Locks and balance do all the stuff simply better than mage in 5.2, there's just no point bringing a mage instead of them.
More mobility, easier target switch, way better aoe, even better cleave with living bomb changes, and better single target.

That's just sad.

[spaace]

All they care about is world first.. not their class. That's the point we're making.

More mobility, easier target switch, way better aoe, even better cleave with living bomb changes, and better single target.

What? lol

[Deleted]

Then they are not true mages. I don't see them post here with concerns or help address any issues we might have. If they switch, which I somehow doubt, it'd be based off bad info.

I predict they will be frost but collect fire BiS gear and switch to fire. You'll see ridiculous numbers from fire once they're in that gear. The sims posted in this thread are not just garbage, they are so incredibly far away from what I've seen on the PTR.

If people are switching characters based off them, they aren't very bright.

"Then they are not true mages"
"I don't see them post here"
"they aren't very bright."

Infracted and image removed.

[willemh]

Then they are not true mages. I don't see them post here with concerns or help address any issues we might have. If they switch, which I somehow doubt, it'd be based off bad info.

I predict they will be frost but collect fire BiS gear and switch to fire. You'll see ridiculous numbers from fire once they're in that gear. The sims posted in this thread are not just garbage, they are so incredibly far away from what I've seen on the PTR.

If people are switching characters based off them, they aren't very bright.

They arn't switching based on sims, they ar switching because the hours and hours of bosstesting they did on PTR. Actual numbers from a top guild after hours of extensive boss testing is actually the best possible information a person can get at the moment (given they arnt lying, but I dont see too much reason for people like Blatty to do so). I certainly use this information to forge my strategy for 5.2 release, since its one of the better/more reliable sources I have at the moment I'm afraid and I doubt I'll get much better info untill 1-2 weeks after the patch.

I believe people who did extensive boss testing, and especially those that payed close attention to the gear scaling/dps differences between normal boss testing and the different Heroic bosses (each with different Ilvl scalings) have valuable information, and if they share it thats certainly something to pay attention to. Not the ONLY thing, but it should certainly be a part of the picture.

[kirit0]

It's not a good thing when anyone switches from a mage, when a full guild decides to drop all their mages, that's when you know something is wrong.

[aycheff]

It's not a good thing when anyone switches from a mage, when a full guild decides to drop all their mages, that's when you know something is wrong.

*rolls eyes*

So ridiculous lol. Like spaaace said, All they care about is world first.. not their class. That's the point we're making. Just because they aren't using a mage for world first doesn't mean mages aren't viable at all lol.

[Mazaxist]

they do so many changes i kinda stopped following it.

[Deleted]

just to make it short, if all "big" guild are going without mage, than blizzard will found a way to make them want to bring them.
I don't speak for one or 2 encounters but for the whole raid.

So yes, for boss like Horridon, Boomkin will like to be near OP. Like for all fight with a lot of add.

[mrgreenthump]

*rolls eyes*

So ridiculous lol. Like spaaace said, All they care about is world first.. not their class. That's the point we're making. Just because they aren't using a mage for world first doesn't mean mages aren't viable at all lol.

Thats true yes, but its not only them that are dropping mages, now sure these other guilds that wont go for top 10 or 100 kills shouldn't do it, but they still are. Its really a problem of everything that top guilds do on their first kills, reflect to other kills that mimic their strategies.

Now there are real problems with mages, and those are our AoE, we literally have no good aoe, our cleave is starting to be far worse than others cause we are loosing living bomb cleave(wont hurt just fire).. our movement is "ok" if we go with invoc or IW, but those talents are still not good enough for all specs, now fire is prolly ok movement next tier, but it has another problem which is target switching, it wont really make us suffer on high hp adds, but on low hp adds fire will just be bad, and same goes for frost really cause we have the stupid 3 frostbolt ramp up.

Now sure Fire will prolly be rather ok in the end, but for progression, any guild that uses class stacking(for better or worst), are prolly going to bench all mages from main progression raids. Frost will get spots here and there, and arcane might be ok for single target standalone(dont really know yet), but all specs need different gear now. So bringing a mage is like using 1 guy with 3 mains that is switching all the time, eventually he is going to be behind in gear, or is taking gear that other people need and then the whole raid suffers..

[kirit0]

Just because they aren't using a mage for world first doesn't mean mages aren't viable at all lol.

It means that mages are medicore and you can fill the raid spot with the better class with better dps

[Deleted]

Loving his class or spec has nothing to do with it! If your guild tells you (or you see yourself), that other classes could do your job way better, because they are the right tool at the moment, then you could do nothing but sit on bench or reroll.
According to the gamebreaker interview, GC sounded pretty satisfied with the recent mage nerfs and said right after that "We will see in a couple of weeks, if the nerfs were justified or not". I´m a little bit worried to be honest.

[Schizophreni]

There are so many fights where the ability to Multi-DoT and/or damage on the move are so beneficial the choice is obvious to switch if you can, and on top of that the single target of a warlock should be competitive if not outright better during progression if not just plainly better. Also for single target just bring more WWs / Combat rogues and still have the DoT classes doing decent damage and getting geared for the other fights

[Dreadii]

Loving his class or spec has nothing to do with it! If your guild tells you (or you see yourself), that other classes could do your job way better, because they are the right tool at the moment, then you could do nothing but sit on bench or reroll.
According to the gamebreaker interview, GC sounded pretty satisfied with the recent mage nerfs and said right after that "We will see in a couple of weeks, if the nerfs were justified or not". I´m a little bit worried to be honest.

I do kinda agree, for me it looks like they have no clue what to do with mages. Oh! let`s try and nerf this and see what happends, or let`s try and remove this etc. It is getting really annoying, I am not gonna change from a mage, but I am reconsidering it with every patch note.

[Kiry]

Mmmm, well I'm not in a situation where switching is an option. I no longer play this game to be a career and have alts on the side to be raid ready. I will do the best I can with whatever is the best progression that is evident. IF, they release 5.2 this Tuesday, I suspect they will likely do some additional balancing changes the first few weeks. That's pretty normal.

I'm a little more than dismayed over the gloom in this tread. It might be justified, but it doesn't provide guidance or options to mages other than "switch". I'd like to see more guidance to mages as a class, progression or thoughts then "go do something else".

[Deleted]

Thats true yes, but its not only them that are dropping mages, now sure these other guilds that wont go for top 10 or 100 kills shouldn't do it, but they still are. Its really a problem of everything that top guilds do on their first kills, reflect to other kills that mimic their strategies.

Now there are real problems with mages, and those are our AoE, we literally have no good aoe, our cleave is starting to be far worse than others cause we are loosing living bomb cleave(wont hurt just fire).. our movement is "ok" if we go with invoc or IW, but those talents are still not good enough for all specs, now fire is prolly ok movement next tier, but it has another problem which is target switching, it wont really make us suffer on high hp adds, but on low hp adds fire will just be bad, and same goes for frost really cause we have the stupid 3 frostbolt ramp up.

Now sure Fire will prolly be rather ok in the end, but for progression, any guild that uses class stacking(for better or worst), are prolly going to bench all mages from main progression raids. Frost will get spots here and there, and arcane might be ok for single target standalone(dont really know yet), but all specs need different gear now. So bringing a mage is like using 1 guy with 3 mains that is switching all the time, eventually he is going to be behind in gear, or is taking gear that other people need and then the whole raid suffers..

Sounds like what I had this patch. The RL said to switch from fire to arcane. Back to fire on multi target bosses. So my gear now in the end of 5.1 is 50% Arcane and 50% fire.

[Schizophreni]

Mmmm, well I'm not in a situation where switching is an option. I no longer play this game to be a career and have alts on the side to be raid ready. I will do the best I can with whatever is the best progression that is evident. IF, they release 5.2 this Tuesday, I suspect they will likely do some additional balancing changes the first few weeks. That's pretty normal.

I'm a little more than dismayed over the gloom in this tread. It might be justified, but it doesn't provide guidance or options to mages other than "switch". I'd like to see more guidance to mages as a class, progression or thoughts then "go do something else".

Go frost as the tier opens as it will be about even with Arcane without having to change a lot of gear and will be more forgiving on movement as you try to optimize casting during the fights. When you are able to convert the mainstay haste/mastery pieces to items with crit/x on them, and especially when you get your 4P, fire becomes a go to option ( I am assuming you would be around 13,000 crit rating aiming for 14,500+ from normals) and will be more useful than Arcane for the heavy movement fights while Arcane will probably do more damage on the low movement fights assuming you have optimal gear for it.

[Fennixx]

Mmmm, well I'm not in a situation where switching is an option. I no longer play this game to be a career and have alts on the side to be raid ready. I will do the best I can with whatever is the best progression that is evident. IF, they release 5.2 this Tuesday, I suspect they will likely do some additional balancing changes the first few weeks. That's pretty normal.

I'm a little more than dismayed over the gloom in this tread. It might be justified, but it doesn't provide guidance or options to mages other than "switch". I'd like to see more guidance to mages as a class, progression or thoughts then "go do something else".

The gloom is justified. IF you don't have lots of utility (or unique utility), IF none of your specs can fight for top3 till end of tier and IF there is another pure caster class* that can do everything you do (but much better and within one spec), THEN future doesn't look good.

---------- Post added 2013-03-04 at 03:43 AM ----------

Loving his class or spec has nothing to do with it! If your guild tells you (or you see yourself), that other classes could do your job way better, because they are the right tool at the moment, then you could do nothing but sit on bench or reroll.
According to the gamebreaker interview, GC sounded pretty satisfied with the recent mage nerfs and said right after that "We will see in a couple of weeks, if the nerfs were justified or not". I´m a little bit worried to be honest.

So true!

If you are playing an underperforming class, if you respect your guild mates and if you have any self-respect left, you should reroll a (way) better class.