Thread: 5.2 tuning pass

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  1. #1

    5.2 tuning pass

    - Envenom damage +20%.
    - Dispatch damage +15%.
    - Assassin's Resolve increased from 20% to 30% (8.33~% damage buff for assassination)
    - Vitality increased from 25% to 30% (4% AP buff for Combat)*
    - RPPM no longer affected by melee attack speed bonuses (RPPM proc nerf)

    from http://blue.mmo-champion.com/topic/2...sues-part-iii/

    For anyone worried about having to switch out of assassination for PvE progression due to scaling, I think this will have completely combatted the issue on single target - until the new ComPo buff. Time will tell eh? It's a modest buff, but it's definitely a buff. Cheers! Back to having something like an execute!

    *was 35%, recently nerfed back to 30%

    I'll keep this post updated if we see further changes in the tuning pass.
    Last edited by Kael; 2013-03-05 at 05:29 AM. Reason: Wrong wording!

  2. #2
    It's enough of a buff to where I won't immediately switch to Combat because of the 5% Vitality buff, which means it's a good thing.
    Still going to switch to Combat once I get the T15 4P and better weapons though.
    Carp - Illidan-US
    I wish I wish I was a fish.
    Rogue - Warlock

  3. #3
    This change makes dispatch do (almost) the same damage as ambush.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Gregz21 View Post
    This change makes dispatch do (almost) the same damage as ambush.
    PvP perspective: GOOD. It's not controllable until 35%, at which point it becomes a massive burst tool? Sounds good to me.
    PvE perspective: Read original comment.
    Carp - Illidan-US
    I wish I wish I was a fish.
    Rogue - Warlock

  5. #5
    Straight up damage buff for assa (as there have been ofr other specs.

    - pro: damage buff, always good and probably it's a way to balance the single target damage of the three specs.

    - cons: it's always the same issue, rogue's scaling is the problem; it'a band-aid fix which probably will translate into OPness for 5.4

    I hope for that serious class rework for 6.0

  6. #6
    Yeah it might end up in a nerf during future patches but that's something we've seen before. I'm all in for this change, definately like it. Planning to stick as assassination at least until I got 522+ weapons for combat and preferably new trinkets along the way aswell.
    Main: Rogue - Alt: Balance Druid

  7. #7
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    I'm so happy, they are buffing real abilities and not passive dmg and poison procs

  8. #8
    Legendary! Ryme's Avatar
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    Call me Buzzkillington, but I've always disliked that assassination makes up a sizeable chunk of it's dps during execute.
    I am the lucid dream
    Uulwi ifis halahs gag erh'ongg w'ssh


  9. #9
    But does this make Assassination a worthy counter to Sub for PVP? I still feel like they could do more to balance all three specs for PVP.

  10. #10
    Still they don't seem able to properly address rogue's scaling issues, they keep going with band aids instead...

  11. #11
    The Patient Mutix's Avatar
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    Quick question:

    What are people using when they Vanish? Mutilate / Ambush or Dispatch? And does the changes in 5.2 affect what we will be using? i.e the Dispatch dmg increase.

    Edit: Obviously pre 35% you cannot dispatch in Vanish (unless dispatch proc, in which case I wouldn't use it in stealth)
    Last edited by Mutix; 2013-02-20 at 11:30 AM.

  12. #12
    Legendary! Ryme's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mutix View Post
    Quick question:

    What are people using when they Vanish? Mutilate / Ambush or Dispatch? And does the changes in 5.2 affect what we will be using? i.e the Dispatch dmg increase.
    Ambush is ahead right now, but only very slightly. I would imagine with this buff to dispatch, mutilate might pull ahead again - though the dps difference would probably still be absolutely tiny.
    I am the lucid dream
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  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Carp The Fish View Post
    It's enough of a buff to where I won't immediately switch to Combat because of the 5% Vitality buff
    Just for the record (and you may not have meant this) Combat is not getting a 5% buff. It is getting a 5% improvement to scaling. Previously Combat had 125% AP. Now its has 130% AP. That is a 4% buff.

    It is not enough to get up to Assassination's level especially given these latest buffs which straight up add 3.5% to Assassination's damage, and given the nerfs to Blade Flurry which allowed Combat to gain some ground across a whole night of raiding assuming there were a few cleave fights with very high cleave uptime, Combat will be behind both single target and is losing its strong two target cleave niche (although granted it will be strong on some fights like Horridon where there are a number of adds - although so will Assassination).

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-20 at 11:54 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Mugajak View Post
    "Rogue
    - Envenom damage +20%.
    - Dispatch damage +15%."

    from http://blue.mmo-champion.com/topic/2...sues-part-iii/

    For anyone worried about having to switch out of assassination for PvE progression due to scaling, I think this will have completely combatted the issue on single target. It's a modest buff, but it's definitely a buff. Cheers! Back to having something like an execute!

    I'll keep this post updated if we see further changes in the tuning pass.
    Re scaling, remember that Assassination scales much better than it did in Cata. Assassin's Resolve used to only buff melee damage. Now it is all damage.

    Granted Combat has Vitality which is 30% and Combat Potency, and Sub has SV and +30% Agi, but it still does not scale as badly as some people believe.

  14. #14
    I've messed around with stat scaling in simcraft to get an idea of what rogues would look like in T16H, it's a very crude method, but using that method I found that assassination's scaling is actually nearly as good as combat's. Even at 560 item level combat did not pull ahead of assassination in single target dps (it did close the gap somewhat). I did this, however, with 5.0/5.1 mechanics (because I did this a few months ago).

  15. #15
    They should have buffed Mutilate instead of Dispatch.

  16. #16
    The Patient Mutix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eazy View Post
    They should have buffed Mutilate instead of Dispatch.
    They probably wanted us to have a better execute. IDK about you but it feels like a poor execute because the CP generation if Mutilate is so much better.

  17. #17
    dispatch is a pain when you dont get a crit with it, and you get less cp than with mut at times, as mut hits with both weps and only one needs to crit to give a extra cp, and it can also proc a free dispatch, if blizz had given it a thought dispatch should be able to proc dispatch(proc cannot proc a proc, like the old warrior hc strike talent), proc would have a 100% crtit chance, or dispatch in general needs a increased crit chance, but this wont happen till next expac, as usual

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Eazy View Post
    They should have buffed Mutilate instead of Dispatch.
    No way. This is a much better buff.

    If you have to choose where assassination's damage bonus should be, execute is the correct call. Having a strong execute section generates greater class power, as nonmutilate rogues can switch to it if they see an advantage. On the flipside, there are very few fights that punish execute phases, so a mutilate rogue should feel comfortable staying mutilate on most fights if they want. I'll change my mind on this if it becomes "... and that's why mutilate is balanced 10% lower".

    Dispatch, I will point out, is already a big part of your pre-execute rotation, with free ones flying out throughout the fight. So many, in fact, that the difference between execute and nonexecute is pretty minor. It just FEELS different because of the buttons. Making it actually BE different is a start here. Personally I'd like to see it buffed a bit more and blindside proc chance reduced a wee bit to put even more damage into the execute part of the fight.

    Envenom is also a wonderful buff, and could even help in pvp. Dispatch is kind of janky in pvp. Unlike execute or hammer of wrath or kill shot, it isn't as if it is a super hard hitting move that was lying in reserve- dispatch uses energy, the same way mutilate does. If you are out of resource and the enemy dips to 30%, you don't suddenly gain the ability to press the button. In fact, the move hits LESS hard than mutilate [EDIT: THIS IS INCORRECT] and only makes one CP (and can't proc a free dispatch), so it's more about your energy bar and less about burst. If you are fighting a guy at 20% and you have a full energy bar, you will probably ignore dispatch in favor of mutilates and envenoms. That's not to say that dispatch is bad or never used, merely that in pvp it has a very different role than the executes of other classes, which light up in eagerness when an enemy is low.


    EDIT: Dispatch is stronger than mutilate. The difference is not great and in this example you are probably better mutilating for the faster envenom, but if the enemy is within one move of dying and you have mutilate and dispatch to choose from (not this example), choose dispatch.
    Last edited by Verain; 2013-02-20 at 10:41 PM.

  19. #19
    The Patient Mutix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Verain View Post
    In fact, the move hits LESS hard than mutilate and only makes one CP (and can't proc a free dispatch), so it's more about your energy bar and less about burst. If you are fighting a guy at 20% and you have a full energy bar, you will probably ignore dispatch in favor of mutilates and envenoms. That's not to say that dispatch is bad or never used, merely that in pvp it has a very different role than the executes of other classes, which light up in eagerness when an enemy is low.
    Maybe it's different in PvP but since when did Mutilate do more damage than Dispatch?

    Here's the highest EU log from a rogue on Feng 25 Heroic - http://raidbots.com/comparebot/51250...300006a#damage

    If you tick the box below the graph which says 'Avg Hit' you will see Mutilate (inc. Off hand Muti) does an average of 50k compared to Dispatch which hits for an average of 84k.
    Last edited by Mutix; 2013-02-20 at 06:15 PM.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Mutix View Post
    Maybe it's different in PvP but since when did Mutilate do more damage than Dispatch?

    Here's the highest EU log from a rogue on Feng 25 Heroic - http://raidbots.com/comparebot/51250...300006a#damage

    If you tick the box below the graph which says 'Avg Hit' you will see Mutilate does an average of 33k compared to Dispatch which hits for an average of 84k.
    Only explanation I could think of would be that Mutilate ignores more armor or something strange like that, but even then it wouldn't make much sense; Dispatch hits for 80k average, Mutilate (mainhand and offhand combined) hits for 55k average, the armor scaling wouldn't affect Dispatch enough to put it lower than Mutilate. Maybe "as-good" was the word he meant to use?

    @Mutix: I use Mutilate out of Vanish on the opener, Mutilate out of Vanish during the fight when I don't have a Blindside proc, and Ambush out of Vanish in case Blindside procs off of a Mutilate right before/after I hit Vanish.
    Carp - Illidan-US
    I wish I wish I was a fish.
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