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  1. #1

    "what top 10 raiding is really like" came across this.

    i found this video on youtube, and was just wondering what people thought.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sRUer4XfLL8


    edit: its a pretty long video, but its interesting to see how he puts his experience
    "Now, I am far too lazy to tell Blizzard this myself, so I want one of you peoples to mention this during one of their Q&A's."


  2. #2
    this guys says the truth
    "We live in a world where a style of play that uses posession and passing to try and make spaces is made fun of.
    While a style of play where a team sits back for 90 minutes and breaks away in 1v1 situations is respected."
    - Ronald Koeman.

  3. #3
    This guy is correct, I am not in top ten, but I still feel like I cant do much outside of raid.

  4. #4
    Legendary! Blueobelisk's Avatar
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    Can someone summarize a few of his points, I can't watch the full video now.

  5. #5
    High Overlord Celar's Avatar
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    To me it sounds like he shouldn't go for world first rankings since he have kids, a wife, a family and a full time job.
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  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Blueobelisk View Post
    Can someone summarize a few of his points, I can't watch the full video now.
    dude doesnt think its fun to wipe on progression and would rather gear up a few weeks before trying hard bosses.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by crunk View Post
    dude doesnt think its fun to wipe on progression and would rather gear up a few weeks before trying hard bosses.
    that's the worst way you can resume it


    he pmuch says that it's a waste of time, and doesn't worth it, and it isn't fun obviously
    "We live in a world where a style of play that uses posession and passing to try and make spaces is made fun of.
    While a style of play where a team sits back for 90 minutes and breaks away in 1v1 situations is respected."
    - Ronald Koeman.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Blueobelisk View Post
    Can someone summarize a few of his points, I can't watch the full video now.
    Basically he was working a 10hr a day job, had a 2month old son and he joined a top 20 world ranked guild. Then was apparently shocked that they demanded he be online for a ton of time and he couldn't handle it so he quit after 3 weeks.
    http://www.youtube.com/user/Jacob6875 <=== Check out my Youtube Channel !!

  9. #9
    Not sure how many threads we've had about this video. Anyways, I haven't played quite at that level, but close enough to form an opinion. Yes, there's pressure, yes it takes time, no most players won't enjoy it for a long time, however he is exaggerating and his opinion is influenced by his irl situation. It's definitely possible to have a family, a job and to raid at a high level (maybe not quite top 10, but high, I would kinda pity your family though), but doing it with a baby (which is close to a second full-time job for a responsible parent)? That's quite frankly just retarded.

  10. #10
    This guy is complaining about having to do a daily heroic and tol barad dailies every day? HA Also did I miss the part why they didn't farm and make flasks as a guild? It'd be easier to level an herbing/alch alt than pay out 4k a day for flasks (If that's even true) and probably take less time then having everyong trying to farm gold at the same time.
    Last edited by Zokudu; 2013-02-20 at 04:48 AM.

  11. #11
    Mechagnome Eruionmel's Avatar
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    He's utterly wrong about the skilled part. He clearly was one of the less-skilled people if he was unable to realize the kind of play that world-top players are capable of. Look at what the Korean starcraft players do in comparison to regular people. It's a little easier to gauge, as you can actually see their APM. They blow everyone else away. And that's exactly how these top raiders are. They are incredibly good at what they do. There's a reason guilds can full clear heroic end-tier bosses in nothing but blues and the drops from a single normal and single heroic clear, while the rest of us are decked in 500ilvls before we're able to kill those same bosses.

    Not only that, the fact that he didn't like wiping on a boss for a couple days does NOT mean that suddenly everyone in the world shares his opinion. We wiped well over 150 times to heroic Sha of Fear, and I enjoyed myself just fine. It made the kill that much sweeter.
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  12. #12
    The Patient Zevoa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celar View Post
    To me it sounds like he shouldn't go for world first rankings since he have kids, a wife, a family and a full time job.
    This. If he had less real-life priorities then I believe his opinion would be different.

  13. #13
    I did raiding in a top 10 guild during year 11/12 and that really stuffed me up. Never again. I went from them to a laid back guild were we downed the content but had fun and thats what it was for... i wanted fun not a 2nd job or school
    "Prepare for the unknown by studying how others in the past have coped with the unforeseeable and the unpredictable."
    "If everyone is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking."

    General George S Patton

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Eruionmel View Post
    He's utterly wrong about the skilled part. He clearly was one of the less-skilled people if he was unable to realize the kind of play that world-top players are capable of. Look at what the Korean starcraft players do in comparison to regular people. It's a little easier to gauge, as you can actually see their APM. They blow everyone else away. And that's exactly how these top raiders are. They are incredibly good at what they do. There's a reason guilds can full clear heroic end-tier bosses in nothing but blues and the drops from a single normal and single heroic clear, while the rest of us are decked in 500ilvls before we're able to kill those same bosses.

    Not only that, the fact that he didn't like wiping on a boss for a couple days does NOT mean that suddenly everyone in the world shares his opinion. We wiped well over 150 times to heroic Sha of Fear, and I enjoyed myself just fine. It made the kill that much sweeter.
    For every good player in those top 20 guilds. There are probably 100 people better who dont want to put that much time into it.

  15. #15
    I didn't watch the video. But let me say that if:

    - you have a baby
    - you have a partner
    - you have a fulltime job (note: full time)

    You cannot play WoW on a "high commited level" (another or better phrase then hardcore). Well ofcourse you cán, but ultimately you'll end up pissing off your partner and you'll be missing out on what your child experiences.

    Time and again I've seen marriages with or without kids gone to hell because one or the other couldn't stay away from WoW. I've seen single moms playing all day and their child running rampant through the house. I've heard a child in the backround throwing a temper tantrum because his mom didn't gave him the atttention he was needing. I've heard the child stab the mom with a fork, because she wasn't spending enough time with the little guy. Heard a child bump against a tv (breaking it) because he got no attention. All the while the parent got mad at the child for doing all that stuff without ever realising it was his/her "hobby" that was getting in the way.

    I've seen this happen in casual or "more commited" guilds.

    So if this guy in the video complains about having to do such and such and it is just too much... Yes goddammit, it is too much for you! Just take a long good look at your life and see that you no longer can "go head to head with the kids", you have got responsibilities now.

    There are some of you who probably say: "Oh but I have 3 kids and a wife - it's fine to play at a high level. We made it sofar without any issues."

    I believe that some of you can feel that way now. I'll not be around to hear the other side though when your kids grow up and feel less attached to you and/or your partner then you might have expected. Or perhaps that those kids grow to hate games - just like some kids who hate alcohol cause their parents drank too much.

  16. #16
    Being near the top of anything takes a lot of time and dedication.

    Its the same for swimming / cycling / triathletes etc. They'll be up at 3:30 exercising so they can do work / school and then more excercising after it.

    It was pretty naive of the guy to think he can have a kid / wife / fulltime job and that it wouls fit in with a progression raiding schedule to be honest.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Eruionmel View Post
    He's utterly wrong about the skilled part. He clearly was one of the less-skilled people if he was unable to realize the kind of play that world-top players are capable of. Look at what the Korean starcraft players do in comparison to regular people. It's a little easier to gauge, as you can actually see their APM. They blow everyone else away. And that's exactly how these top raiders are. They are incredibly good at what they do. There's a reason guilds can full clear heroic end-tier bosses in nothing but blues and the drops from a single normal and single heroic clear, while the rest of us are decked in 500ilvls before we're able to kill those same bosses.

    Not only that, the fact that he didn't like wiping on a boss for a couple days does NOT mean that suddenly everyone in the world shares his opinion. We wiped well over 150 times to heroic Sha of Fear, and I enjoyed myself just fine. It made the kill that much sweeter.
    Comparing the skillcap of a mmorpg (with a 1 sec gcd) to a competitive rts is quite frankly nothing but silly. In wow you are very much restricted by the amount of time you spend on your character, no matter your skill it is impossible to raid at a very high level without both gear and a great amount of time invested, while you start on even footing every sc2 game and be expected to win from that position. In wow you are generally fine doing one action a second, and the only viable choice for this action is in almost every case one of 5-10 spells, in sc2 you could do close to infinite amount of things each second and make an incredible amount of decisions. Playing sc2 feels like a workout, past the early game you constantly push your brain to the limit, you are stressed and every single milisecond you feel like you could do something more, something better. The closest thing you get to this in wow is to be a raidleader when everything goes wrong at once and you try to salvage the situation, but even that isn't close to the average sc2 game (which also is the reason that I play more wow than sc2, playing sc2 simply isn't relaxing).

    Yes, most players in top guilds are really solid players, but to play wow at a high level you don't need an insane amount of talent, you need to be reasonably bright and a lot of time/dedication. The skillcap simply isn't as high in wow as in an rts, and the difference between a skilled and an amazing player is far far smaller (compare someone who does every trick in the book to a player who simply performs his rotation correctly, the dps difference is around 5%, while a master league sc2 player will get utterly destroyed by a competitive player game after game). I'm not saying that the "skillcap" in wow is low (but it is lower), I think it's high enough that it's extremly hard or impossible to achive, I'm saying that you don't need to be close to said skillcap to raid at the "highest" level since the gain is so incredibly small (especially compared to the gain by more time invested).
    Last edited by Cookie; 2013-02-20 at 04:08 PM.

  18. #18
    Pandaren Monk Otiswhitaker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cookie View Post
    Comparing the skillcap of a mmorpg (with a 1 sec gcd) to a competitive rts is quite frankly nothing but silly. In wow you are very much restricted by the amount of time you spend on your character, no matter your skill it is impossible to raid at a very high level without both gear and a great amount of time invested, while you start on even footing every sc2 game and be expected to win from that position. In wow you are generally fine doing one action a second, and the only viable choice for this action is in almost every case one of 5-10 spells, in sc2 you could do close to infinite amount of things each second and make an incredible amount of decisions. Playing sc2 feels like a workout, past the early game you constantly push your brain to the limit, you are stressed and every single milisecond you feel like you could do something more, something better. The closest thing you get to this in wow is to be a raidleader when everything goes wrong at once and you try to salvage the situation, but even that isn't close to the average sc2 game (which also is the reason that I play more wow than sc2, playing sc2 simply isn't relaxing).

    Yes, most players in top guilds are really solid players, but to play wow at a high level you don't need an insane amount of talent, you need to be reasonably bright and a lot of time/dedication. The skillcap simply isn't as high in wow as in an rts, and the difference between a skilled and an amazing player is far far smaller (compare someone who does every trick in the book to a player who simply performs his rotation correctly, the dps difference is around 5%, while a master league sc2 player will get utterly destroyed by a competitive player game after game). I'm not saying that the "skillcap" in wow is low, I think it's high enough that it's extremly hard or impossible to achive, I'm saying that you don't need to be close to said skillcap to perform at the highest level since the gain is so incredibly small (especially compared to the gain by more time invested).
    Came in here to say pretty much what you said. The skillcap in MMOs just flat out isn't high. It's all rote and routine, coupled with time investment. We're talking about a genre that is absolutely devoid of AI, for christ's sake. It's not, like, say, an RTS, a fighting game, shooters, or whatever. It's a lot more even-handed. People just don't want to bother with it because of the time investment. But that's why MMOs are popular with people who aren't generally gamers, per say.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by EqualWin View Post
    he pmuch says that it's a waste of time, and doesn't worth it, and it isn't fun obviously
    You just summarized pretty much whole life, depending who you ask.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Reyzzz View Post
    You just summarized pretty much whole life, depending who you ask.
    If you feel that way I seriously wonder why you haven't jumped off a roof:P

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