difference between adventure and rpg.

[VXFadhel]

Remember that some "attributes" does not belong to a single genre, but more than one. Whats the difference between Hack-n-Slash, Beat em' Up, and Action games?
Games doesn't necessary have all the elements of some genre to be considered one. Take Gran Turismo or Need for Speed, or even Winning Eleven (PES) Master League (The one with growth on it) for example. It is tricky to describe some of these genre.

Edit: Added the Beat em' Up genre.

[Deleted]

Important elements of an RPG are acting out a story an making discisions and building your character (not in a way where you can updrade your armor or weapon once in a while but choosing between certain options that advance your character).

These days there are too many hybrids between RPGs and other genres. In a couple of years all games will be a mix between genre x and RPGs at this rate.

Also I love how people keep using the term FPS to describe Mass Effect while it's not even from a first person perspective. Being able to use a gun in a game doesn't make it an FPS.

[Wayne25uk]

You cant classify "JRPG's" as a different category thats just stupid,its like saying a FPS made in Germany is a G-FPS,or a RTS made in sweden is a S-RTS,its either a RTS or FPS simple as,but RPGs are if you play the role of the character,hence ROLE PLAYING GAME,stats and all this other bullshit you are all spouting is just nonsense.

[Wilian]

My few year old ramblings about RPGs and definitions:

What is RPG?

RPG is a game where you create a character that has a role which you can usually define yourself through statistics and attributes (how strong he is, how smart he is, is he a good talker) and skills he uses (What weapons and spells he is proficient with). Important factor is that the game doesn't let you max out majority of stuff and forces decisions between various things you'd like to accomplish.

Many of the things that character is able to do, should be detracted from the player skill (level 1 marching into arena of Oblivion is a good example of RPG done "bad", when you can triumph as the Arena Grandmaster.) and revolve around what the character can do. How else your character would have a role that is actually presented in gameplay instead of imaginary acting? Without important character-centric capabilities and choices affecting game as a whole, you'd be basically playing just another pure action/CYOA game.

This whole "games with RPG elemets are RPG games" thing is quite bullshit along with the whole "you can pretend to be the character!" argument which is often brought up aswell. By that definition Transport Tycoon is RPG, taking a role of business mogul to bring your corporation up in the world.

Sad thing is that nowdays pure RPG games are just being watered down to accomodate the usually lowest common denominator, which means less of everything not to overwhelm the potential untapped playerbase.

It's side effects are clearly visible in how more and more RPGs which are supposed to give this diverse gameplay full of possibilities (And often marketed so) is more often than not pigeonholed into pure combat combat segments with a sort of "minigame" of the formerly usual RPG elements in between.

Fallout remains as my single favourite RPG because it truly lets you play the way you want and is one of the few games that can be finished without a single battle if you've built your character correctly.

[VXFadhel]

I will repeat myself (Sorry about that), a game doesn't have to all the elements of a "genre" to be considered one. There are many attributes between the genres that overlap. ME is Third-Person Shooting, but still it got few things that overlap with with FPS, take Skyrim, you can get a third person view. People just use JRPG and so to distinguish between them and western ones. Not that its a genre of its own, just people adding something. For example, Capcom used to call Resident Evil, Biohazzard (Japanese ver. ) and Resident Evil (for others).

---------- Post added 2013-02-20 at 02:53 PM ----------

RPG is a game where you create a character that has a role which you can usually define yourself through statistics and attributes (how strong he is, how smart he is, is he a good talker) and skills he uses (What weapons and spells he is proficient with). Important factor is that the game doesn't let you max out majority of stuff and forces decisions between various things you'd like to accomplish............

This whole "games with RPG elemets are RPG games" thing is quite bullshit ..................

Thats just contradicting yourself, take FF9 for example, is it possible to make ViVi something beside a mage? Your definition is flawed, and puts a lot of games out of the "RPG" genres. What game are you talking about that lets you create a character that has a role, certainly not FF9 for example.

[Wilian]

Thats just contradicting yourself, take FF9 for example, is it possible to make ViVi something beside a mage? Your definition is flawed, and puts a lot of games out of the "RPG" genres. What game are you talking about that lets you create a character that has a role, certainly not FF9 for example.

I don't deal in jRPGs.

[Mechazod]

Well back in the day it was easy for me:

Adventure: Myst, Monkey Island, King's Quest, Grim Fandago, Leisure Suit Larry, Zork
-Sub-Genres: Click & Point, first person Click & Point, text adventure, etc.

-RPG: EarthBound, Ultima, Dragon Warrior, Might & Magic, Lands of Lore, Lunar, Wizardry
-Sub-Genres: turn based, real-time, dungeon crawler, rogue-like, tactical, etc.



Now a days to me if I want to describe a game as an RPG i basically look at it like this:
-If the RPG elements are required to play the game, then yes it is an RPG. If the RPG elements were removed/completly ignored and you could still play through the majority of the game then no I dont classify that as a true RPG, just a game with RPG elements.

For example people seem to love referring to the Mass Effect games as RPGs. For me personally I disagree because there were never any parts of the games in a normal play through where you absolutely needed to rely on RPG mechanics (like stats/upgrading gear etc/levels) to actually beat the game on a normal play through. You could completely ignore all of those aspects and still play through the game as 3rd person shooter, the RPG elements however were there to enhance the overall experience of the game, but no I would not consider them to be RPGs, just a 3rd person shooter series with a strong narrative and RPG elements to add flavor to it. Now maybe some could say that by that logic then the Elder Scroll series are not RPGs, however I disagree because on a normal play through you are heavily required to rely on RPG mechanics to beat the actual game (and I mean a normal play through, I am not talking about super masochists that try to beat the game without ever advancing their character) and thus its that reliance on old fashion stats, leveling and armor management that I consider the Elder Scrolls games to be RPGs, but that's just my opinion.

-Mass Effect/Deus Ex: Not RPGs
-Elder Scrolls/Demon's Souls: RPGs

Same with Zelda, besides some aspects of Zelda 2 there has never been any times in the series where RPG mechanics mattered at all in beating the game and thus to me that does not make it an RPG. Now a similar series to the Zelda games that I would consider to be RPGs is the Ys series which has always relied on stats and leveling in order to complete the game, even if a lot of the game play elements are similar to that of Zelda.

I suppose another reference I could use are the Dungeons & Dragons arcade beat-em-ups that Capcom released in the 90s. They contain traditional RPG elements of the series they are based off, but you can completely ignore those elements and beat the game as a standard arcade brawler. That is not an RPG to me. Either the RPG mechanics play a major role in completing the game or its just a game with RPG elements added on to it.

[Hraklea]

I only consider "pure RPGs" games where physical tasks doesn't matter. Like games where the battles are made by subtitles. (you click "attack" and the character attack, there's no "skill" involved, it is pure strategy)

Most games nowadays are what people call "action RPG".

[VXFadhel]

@Dalliah: The videos doesn't explain much, even he mentions dark souls and some other games as well. Also, take Skyrim for example, you are STILL a dragonborn (whether you like it or not), on the other hand, take final fantasy x-2 you can change your playstyle accordingly. Its not how you can be what you want or if you can change your playstyle. You play different games for different experiences, if you played Torchlight 2 you will get different experience than if you played Diablo 3 or Path of Exile. So I am not really sure why he keeps mentioning "what" you expect when you play the game, Dynasty Warriors have a depth story, still you can play the game without even knowing whats going on. You can even make a custom character in Dynasty Warriors.

@Willian:If you dont deal with jRPGs, what do you deal with then?

@Mechazod: RPGs elements makes things easier when you level up for example, not always necessary as you claim.

---------- Post added 2013-02-20 at 03:34 PM ----------

I only consider "pure RPGs" games where physical tasks doesn't matter. Like games where the battles are made by subtitles. (you click "attack" and the character attack, there's no "skill" involved, it is pure strategy)

Most games nowadays are what people call "action RPG".

What do you consider FF8 or FF10? And I think you are trying to describe Turn-Based?

[Mechazod]

@Mechazod: RPGs elements makes things easier when you level up for example, not always necessary as you claim.

I suppose, but I basically see it like this, once again using Mass Effect and Elder Scrolls as examples:

-Grab a random jackoff that dislikes RPG games in general and tell them to play through Mass Effect. Odds are they would ignore the majority of the RPG elements and still be able to beat the game as a 3rd person shooter.

-Tell that same jackoff to play through any of the Elder Scrolls games. Odds are that early on after trying to ignore the majority of the RPG elements and beat the game as an FPS they will get their asses handed to them, get frustrated and give up. That to me is an RPG, they tried to ignore the core mechanics of the game and failed.

Now I am not saying later on in the game the RPG elements wont become trivial, but getting to that point in the game as a normal play-though will require you to rely on the games RPG mechanics. I mean certain older turn-based RPGs have an auto-battle mode once you get to higher levels that lets you just plow through enemies, but its still an RPG in needing to reach that point in the game, that's basically same way I see it. Same with Demon's Souls/Dark Souls. Once you actually get far enough in the game it does in a sense become just a hack and slash since your character has advanced so much, but getting to that point in the game required using the RPG mechanics available.

But once again that's just how I look at the description of an RPG.

[Wilian]

@Willian:If you dont deal with jRPGs, what do you deal with then?

cRPGs mostly.

[VXFadhel]

@Mechazod
I understand and agree with you that some games have more importance on the "RPG" elements than other games. But different games have different balance on how their gamestyle turns out. Having nice abilities in ME certainly help, but so does if you are quiet skilled in shooting games. Just like in Dark Souls, you can make a completely melee character or go full magic, or something in between. Some people are used to play melee, others like to stay out of range. Different playstyles but they still achieve the 'mission'/goal.

@Wilian
I enjoy a lot of genre so its not a problem for me^.^ Why narrow my games list when there is tons of games to enjoy. Of course, different games have different experience for people, each one has their taste.

[Wilian]

@Wilian
I enjoy a lot of genre so its not a problem for me^.^ Why narrow my games list when there is tons of games to enjoy. Of course, different games have different experience for people, each one has their taste.

I find jRPGs most of the time quite shallow in terms of character building, I don't particulary enjoy the typical manga/anime art style presented and all in all the stories told tend to be far over the top to my more down to earth tastes.

[VXFadhel]

@Wilian
To each their own taste, and so. Whether its story, game play, art or game design. But no harm in trying other things than what you are used to sometimes, you might be surprised at some of them.

[Wilian]

@Wilian
To each their own taste, and so. Whether its story, game play, art or game design. But no harm in trying other things than what you are used to sometimes, you might be surprised at some of them.

I have played fair share of jRPGs in my lifetime.

[geewhiz80]

Just a question to both of you, since Wilian said that character creation is one of the mains, where does that leaves the old RPG games like final fantasy?

The first final fantasy you actually did get to select your characters, and customize them somewhat in terms of spells for the casters. I think it was the only one that really let you design your own party from the get go. All of the others I seem to remember having set cast of characters, with some customization going on in terms of abilities.

[Moinaldo]

In a RPG, you develop your characters... may be one character or may be many...

Besides that, both genres share many aspects, dialogs, a storyline, etc.

[Hraklea]

What do you consider FF8 or FF10? And I think you are trying to describe Turn-Based?

I never player FF10, but FF8 combat is mostly subtitled (except for Squall "crits" and Zell limit break, if memory serves me right), so I'd say it is a RPG. And I wouldn't say that turn based = RPG, because some games (like Civilization series) are turn based and they are not RPGs. Another complex game to describe would be Parasite Eve, as it has turn based combat but it also has real time movement. (Square called it a "cinematic RPG" when it was released)

[flarecde]

These days the term RPG has been so diluted that any game that isn't an RPG is probably worth noting just for being unusual :P. What exactly it means is so varied to the point of making the classification almost worthless.

[VXFadhel]

@Hraklea
RPG elements are wide, also did you play Shadow Hearts before? Most of the things are based on "the ring".
@flarecde
No harm in mixing the genres, and agreed with your point. As I stated before, many genres share some of their elements, some are tricky to describe.