Page 1 of 3
1
2
3
LastLast
  1. #1
    The Patient Cronosmash's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Everywhere
    Posts
    221

    Why Divine Shield (for Ret/Prot) must be removed or reworked

    Tread on Blizz PTR here, +1 vote and post there to help spread the word if you agree with the main idea of Ret survivability/being trained.

    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/7980249795

    ---

    I am here for PVP and PVE Ret and Prot Paladins: PVP Prot drops flag, PVE Prot only remove some debuffs, PVP Ret is the main focus here and PVE Ret would not be greatly affected by this changes.

    Now Divine Shield is a Immune for 8secs + Trinket on 5 min CD and half the damage dealed. Math says is balanced since is really strong, so it have a long CD.

    SHORT STORY: Divine Shield is a too strong, too long CD spell and Ret needs a more reliable defensive CD. Something between 90secs and 3mins tops. The big point here is solve the LOW defensives or Ret and the fact Ret is always being trained.

    What I call "Immune" here is some buff that makes the target not worthy to DPS. Works as a peel, guarantees the time for a healer or himself to heal up and get back to the game. Whenever you try to kill someone, those spells are MAJOR relevant. You're trying to kill a hunter/spriest/mage/paladin/monk/lock/etc and you can expect that CD will go up and the pace will be broken. Touch of Karma works like that, so do teleports and invisibilities becouse you can't DPS the target. ToK have a damage limit but can work like a 400k absorv+reflect and this makes not worth DPS it so this is what I mean.

    If you look at DS's counterparts we have for it (to some degree - just to get the idea):

    - Anti Magic Shell: 45secs, 75% (to 100% with glyph) less magic damage + immune to magic CC.
    - Deterrence: Immune to attacks and 30% less dots already up on 2 mins CD and resetable.
    - Ice Block: Immune for 10secs on 5 mins and resetable.
    - Touch of Karma: Immune for 10secs (to max life), 90secs CD.
    - Diffuse Magic: 90% less magic + spell reflect for 6secs on 90secs CD.
    - Zen Meditation: 90% less ALL damage + redirect 5 spells (chaos bolt, lava burst, pyroblast...) for 8secs on 3mins CD - break with melee.
    - Transcendence: Teleport, therefore pulls to safety, breaking all damage until being in range again.
    - Hand of Protection: Immune to Physical for 10secs, can't physical attack + Forberance on 5mins CD.
    - Dispersion: 90% less all damage for 6secs, can't cast, clears snare on 2mins CD.
    - Cloak of Shadows: Immune and remove all magical for 5secs on 2 mins CD.
    - Vanish: Invisibility + remove moviment impair on 3mins CD (can't hit what can't see)
    - Dark Bargain: Immune for 8secs, usable CC'd, takes 50% damage overtime after on 3mins CD.
    - Demonic Circle: Teleport: Teleport to out of range/LoS on 30 secs CD = time to recover.

    Now, the deal with all this is: LOOK AT THE CDS. Divine Shield is STRONGER then all of this, but usable only every 5 mins. All of this can be used 2 to 5 times on 5 mins (wtf, is impossible to kill a WW Monk, not to mention Ring of Peace).

    Divine Shield must get to 2 to 3 mins CD, with a lesser effect so it becomes RELIABLE.

    Think after a SPriest Dispersion you have 2 mins to kill him until he gets "immune" again, same for most of this defensives but Ret can't do anything for 5 mins.

    Hand of Protection on self as Ret is too impairing to use:

    1) All magic taken, 2) Can take CC, 3) Can't hit, 4) Forberance. Choose 2 of those: BoP get immune to all and can't hit and can take CC, BoP gives CC immunity or BoP does not impair to hit. As it is, is just WRONG. Think how the only other spec that have some kind of Forberance is Mage and only Mage, Hunter and SPriests have they're damage impaired when turning immunities on. Blizzard is not thinking the whole mechanics, including a LOT of new spells for the game and forgeting the old lessons. Touch of Karma MUST reduce the damage dealed, so do Dark Bargain.

    I said a THOUSAND times that Ret needs the Glyph of Magic Hand of Protection back, so this is all about BoP.

    About Divine Shield: REMOVE IT or REWORK IT.

    Ideas (Ret and Prot only) - maybe make this changes as Glyph:

    - Divine Shield does not remove CC, gets to 2 mins CD (or 3 without decreasing damage dealed) and Divine Protection remove Silence, Stun or Fear. (Ideal for me)

    - Divine Shield should increase healing taken for Ret/Prot only.

    - If Divine Shield CD does not change, than Divine Protection to remove or immune a CC is a MUST becouse all other specs have it an Ret is too vulnerable against CC.

    - (Ipoststuff) Make it 3 mins CD, 3 secs duration.

    - (Overpowered idea from Psilar) I would bring Consecrate back for Ret Paladins. Give it a 1 minute cooldown and have it do little or no damage. Make it an anti-Ring of Peace. It will last 8 or 10 seconds and give silence immunity while you're standing in it. And/Or provide the Eye for an Eye effect while you're in it....reflecting 20% of damage taken back to the caster. So it would act as a defensive cooldown and provide RBG utility. It would also counter Ring of Peace, Smokebomb, Ring of Frost, and Solar Beam.

    - (Nyc) Glyph that makes Divine Shield turn into a 50% damage reduction that removes all negative effects and lasts 6 seconds with a 3min cd.

    - (some people) Bring back Cata Sacred Shield (I'd add Last Word too).

    - Make Seal of Insight mitigates some damage and/or heal up better for Ret to make some kind of Defensive Stance. As it is, SoI only heals for a low amount, if you're in melee range and not CC'd - trade too much DPS for it + GCD, so is not a viable option for Ret - it must be looked at too.

    The big idea is simple: Divine Shield is a too strong, too long CD spell and Ret needs a more reliable defensive CD. Something between 90secs and 3mins tops.

    Especialy MONK is very BROKEN: there is too many defensives. This will explode in 3 weeks after 5.2 launch TOPS. Ret defensives are balanced for Cata, every spec have DOUBLE to TRIPLE more immunities/big defensives on lower CD.

    We all agree: 5 mins to this utility is INSANE too long.

    If you disagree, explain why is better to have trinket+remove all+immune on 5 mins rather than the same things, spread on diferent spells/CDs

    Is the same principle why I say Absolve should not be on Hand os Sacrifice and on Salvation instead: if you make a single button that does it all than the game is dumb. Make a spell that heals, damages, immune, area cc, dispel, mitigates on a 20 mins CD then.

    Even if it must lower some of group utility/off heal - a dead/focused Ret can't help any group.

    Fix Ret or nerf all other specs.
    Last edited by Cronosmash; 2013-03-03 at 01:25 PM.

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Cronosmash View Post
    wtf, is impossible to kill a WW Monk
    I stopped reading there.

    Infracted. If you have nothing constructive to contribute, don't post. ~Fhi
    Last edited by Fhi; 2013-03-01 at 09:55 PM.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by masteryuri View Post
    I stopped reading there.
    No, you didn't. Also, you've got nothing more than a stupid elitiest line which is as empty in value as, supposedly, your quoted text ?

    Stay away from comments like this. Keep comments on topic and productive!
    Last edited by Krekko; 2013-03-02 at 03:11 AM.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by SirRaven View Post
    No, you didn't. Also, you've got nothing more than a stupid elitiest line which is as empty in value as, supposedly, your quoted text ?
    Dont forget that our <sarcasm> "Powerful" </sarcasm> Divine Shield get auto dispelled by Warriors and Priests almost instantly.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Ellmist View Post
    Dont forget that our <sarcasm> "Powerful" </sarcasm> Divine Shield get auto dispelled by Warriors and Priests almost instantly.
    And it was "buffed" to be seen from the other end of an american football field.. :/

  6. #6
    Stood in the Fire Baenesur's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Denmark
    Posts
    449
    I agree with poster on this topic. I would make a rework that made them immune for 4 seconds, cleared snares, stuns, immobilizing effects, disorient and fears with a 3 min CD instead. Though it shouldn't be usable while silenced then.
    Warlock New Main
    Druid Retired Main after many years
    Brawler's Guild ALL fights

  7. #7
    I root for this to happen every time a new expansion rolls in, DS is not as strong as they make it seem, but it is too strong to allow us to have other tools, I don't really care about it being a signature ability from WC3, I'm more interested in balance.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaexion View Post
    The loss of the ability to pass on loot is the loss of the ability to choose. This is communism.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aevra View Post
    It's a #$^&*@ fantasy game. You're a blue space goat riding around on flying serpents killing dragons the size of continents. And you're wondering why a gryphon doesn't look like an eagle?

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Eskobar View Post
    I root for this to happen every time a new expansion rolls in, DS is not as strong as they make it seem, but it is too strong to allow us to have other tools, I don't really care about it being a signature ability from WC3, I'm more interested in balance.
    I have the opposite opinion. True balance will never be achieved in a rpg with many classes/races/professions/etc that are all different in their own way. Instead of trying to chase an impossible dream, lets keep classic abilities that define classes please. This being one of them.

  9. #9
    Mechagnome ipoststuff's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    The Internet
    Posts
    726
    What id like divine shield to have is

    3min cooldown
    4sec duration
    off gcd.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by masteryuri View Post
    I stopped reading
    I think I've found your problem.

    On topic however, I agree with OP about what needs to be done but I don't know if I like his proposed suggestions. To be frank I don't think I have any either, it'd be quite difficult to assess what to turn div shield into because we'd have to take into account the other defensives the pally has. However I do think that holy should share the same div shield (changed or otherwise) as the paladin's other 2 specs.

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-02 at 03:28 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Ellmist View Post
    Dont forget that our <sarcasm> "Powerful" </sarcasm> Divine Shield get auto dispelled by Warriors and Priests almost instantly.
    Heh...oh yes.

    There is that....

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Baenesur View Post
    I agree with poster on this topic. I would make a rework that made them immune for 4 seconds, cleared snares, stuns, immobilizing effects, disorient and fears with a 3 min CD instead. Though it shouldn't be usable while silenced then.
    Need to rework the name then. If I'm getting a "divine" shield, I'm pretty sure "god" can do things - he can do them without speaking.

    I think you're completely wrong. Silence is the bane of Rets - along with Fear. Sure stuns suck, but they suck for everyone.

    I agree that every other class has amazing cooldowns now. Paladins in general used to be one of a few classes with a really good cooldown. Warlock cooldowns are off the charts. DKs could use a little love but they have more reliable cooldowns over time.

    Blizzard did exactly what I didn't want them to do. They decided to buff Ret self healing. I think our healing is fine currently....I think WoG could do a little more and not Flash of Light. The problem with self healing classes is their silence susceptibility.

    If I had to make one suggestion. .....

    I would bring Consecrate back for Ret Paladins. Give it a 1 minute cooldown and have it do little or no damage. Make it an anti-Ring of Peace. It will last 8 or 10 seconds and give silence immunity while you're standing in it. And/Or provide the Eye for an Eye effect while you're in it....reflecting 20% of damage taken back to the caster. So it would act as a defensive cooldown and provide RBG utility. It would also counter Ring of Peace, Smokebomb, Ring of Frost, and Solar Beam.

    Combine this with Ret healing on live +20% for WoG ONLY. Plus the Exorcism/TV change. Plus make Divine Protection glyph baseline and offer the glyph to make it how it is unglyphed currently. Also, the Sheath of Light change is good too.

  12. #12
    Brewmaster Detheavn's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    The Nether .... lands
    Posts
    1,346
    Quote Originally Posted by Ellmist View Post
    Dont forget that our <sarcasm> "Powerful" </sarcasm> Divine Shield get auto dispelled by Warriors and Priests almost instantly.
    Playing a spriest, yes ... I've got my eyes on you

  13. #13
    Herald of the Titans TEHPALLYTANK's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Texas(I wish it were CO)
    Posts
    2,666
    I'd rather it just go back to 12 secs, make it so nothing can dispel it AND remove the dmg debuff for having it up. Then it is justified as a 5 minute CD.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bigbamboozal View Post
    Intelligence is like four wheel drive, it's not going to make you unstoppable, it just sort of tends to get you stuck in more remote places.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by TEHPALLYTANK View Post
    I'd rather it just go back to 12 secs, make it so nothing can dispel it AND remove the dmg debuff for having it up. Then it is justified as a 5 minute CD.
    So let Ret paladins be fubar OP for 12 seconds every 5 minutes. Sounds like S5 all over again.

    Blizzard has been highly resistant in giving Ret more powerful healing as a defensive boost because it would make them too powerful as off healers (Shadow Priest heals were nerfed for this exact reason).

    Giving Ret paladins additional defensive cooldowns (especially CC breaks) will also make them unstoppable damage machines, so Blizzard's like no thank you.

    The best way to fix Ret survive is to grant them additional resilience, like how Spriests get Shadow form, Balance druids get Moonkin form, and Holy/Disc gets Focused Will.
    Last edited by yurano; 2013-03-01 at 11:05 PM.

  15. #15
    They should just add a glyph that makes Divine Shield turn into a 50% damage reduction that removes all negative effects and lasts 6 seconds with a 3min cd.

    This would allow people to choose between which type of mechanic they like more.

  16. #16
    The Patient Cronosmash's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Everywhere
    Posts
    221
    If you agree with the idea, give a +1 post here:

    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/7980249795

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by nyc81991 View Post
    They should just add a glyph that makes Divine Shield turn into a 50% damage reduction that removes all negative effects and lasts 6 seconds with a 3min cd.

    This would allow people to choose between which type of mechanic they like more.
    As much as I like this (and have suggested the same/similar), it would be gamebreaking for Prot. Essentially another shield wall, at that point.

    This means you'd have to make it a glyph for ret only, which is fine i guess, but I thought blizz didn't want to do something like that as stated prior
    Quote Originally Posted by Malthanis View Post
    We'll all be appropriately shocked/amazed when Nairobi actually gets an avatar, but until then, let's try to not derail the thread heckling him about it.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    If it was that easy don't you think we would have figured that out? (Source)
    20k and counting...

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by yurano View Post
    Giving Ret paladins additional defensive cooldowns (especially CC breaks) will also make them unstoppable damage machines, so Blizzard's like no thank you.

    The best way to fix Ret survive is to grant them additional resilience, like how Spriests get Shadow form, Balance druids get Moonkin form, and Holy/Disc gets Focused Will.
    Yea , BUT Ret paladines very often activates Divine Shield just to dispel a fear effect (or another CC) and then turn off the bubble very quick after this. I mean just for 1 second total use . You cant see alot of this in duels and battlegrounds.

    Divine Shield should have diferent efect and duration for every spec.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Cronosmash View Post
    every spec have DOUBLE to TRIPLE more immunities on lower CD
    Do you mean all the classes in the game or the classes you mentioned? If you mean all classes then you are really mistaken.

  20. #20
    The Patient Dmchomerun's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Cathedral of Light
    Posts
    242
    Quote Originally Posted by yurano View Post
    So let Ret paladins be fubar OP for 12 seconds every 5 minutes. Sounds like S5 all over again.

    Blizzard has been highly resistant in giving Ret more powerful healing as a defensive boost because it would make them too powerful as off healers (Shadow Priest heals were nerfed for this exact reason).

    Giving Ret paladins additional defensive cooldowns (especially CC breaks) will also make them unstoppable damage machines, so Blizzard's like no thank you.

    The best way to fix Ret survive is to grant them additional resilience, like how Spriests get Shadow form, Balance druids get Moonkin form, and Holy/Disc gets Focused Will.
    I think you are missing the point that when Divine Shield is active, our damage output is reduced by 50%.
    Exorcising Undead in the name of the Silver Hand!
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...homerun/simple

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •