1. #1

    2H Frost Haste question

    Hey guys, new mmo-champ user here.

    Anyway, I'm running 2H Frost, playing almost strictly PvP. I'm aware that haste is our secondary stat of choice, and I've tried to grab any piece of gear that has haste already on it and if it doesn't, reforging has been done to make sure it does. I've also heard the word "cap" and "soft-cap" be thrown around non-chalantly, though I'm not totally sure that applies to me, as a 2H Frosty.
    So, I'm at around 46.96-somethin% haste, and I've gotten my rune speed down to 9.01. Is that a good number to be at, or am I too low/past the "soft cap" that I'm pretty sure doesn't exist?

    I'd post my armory, but I can't, being a new member. I'm Wolfrost on Dark Iron if you care to look it up.
    Thanks for the insight.

  2. #2
    2H frost really doesn't have a cap. Most Raiders you see will be sitting well past 8K haste now and easily 9k+ in 5.2, so in PVP it's much the same.

    No effective cap, get as much as you can til your rotation feels nice.
    Vampire Zombie Werewolf

  3. #3
    Alright, cool. Well by that standard I guess I'm pretty low, considering I have yet to reach 5k haste. Hopefully with full Malevolent that gets a bit better. Thanks tho

  4. #4
    In PVP haste isn't as important as PVE. In PVE you have sustained time-on-target and you need the haste to keep your resources flowing. Most raiding frost players will have in the 8-9k haste range, though you could go higher. Haste isn't particularly plentiful on PVE gear this tier, but you can make up for this by effective use of AMS. If you use it properly you can completely refill your RP bar and prevent any resource droughts. In PVP you will have much lower time on target, will be spending more time CC'd or using utility talents, all of which give your runes more time to regenerate between kill set ups.

  5. #5
    Mechagnome Italiandk's Avatar
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    As Skarssen said, in PVP haste loose a lot of his value because you aren't 100% of the time on the target so I'd reforge to something else.
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  6. #6
    I play Frost at 9.5k haste and it's pretty comfortable

  7. #7
    Mastery is the PVP secondary stat of choice. Don't ignore haste completely, but don't go out of your way for it at the expense of mastery.

  8. #8
    Brewmaster Ryan Cailan Ebonheart's Avatar
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    Get haste gear in pvp but reforge secondary stats to mastery. For example you have a choice between two belts. One has Haste and Hit and the other one has Crit and Mastery. You take the one with Haste and Hit and then reforge the Hit into Mastery.
    "Machinehead" by Bush "Blood is like wine, unconscious all the time. If I had it all again, I'd change it all."
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  9. #9
    Makes sense. Unfortunately with the gear I have, reaching the 3% expertise cap was a bit of a problem, so in place where I'd rather reforge for Mastery, I was forced to reforge for expertise. I do wish I had more Mastery, because I can definitely see the damage increase, but it would come at the expense of lost Haste, and faster attacks means more KM procs, and runes come back faster. That's just hard to give up lol.

  10. #10
    Brewmaster Ryan Cailan Ebonheart's Avatar
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    Expertise doesn't really have a cap in pvp. I personally think Expertise is very important to Frost DK's and Arms Warriors. More so for Arms Warriors because 90% of their damage is from melee attacks. Two handed Frost has less reliance than Arms but I still feel like its important. There's nothing worse than having a Killing Machine Obliterate proc get parried or dodged. If any of your attacks are constantly getting parried/dodged, I believe you're losing more damage overall even with the boost mastery gives you. DK's don't have many stuns either like Warriors do. That only makes the value of expertise increase for Frost DK's.

    On the PTR which is set to max season 13 non elite tyrannical gear, I try to sit around 7%-8% expertise. Strength classes at that gear level are sitting at around 16%-18% parry rating. I feel like having 3% expertise isn't sufficient enough at these levels to be even considered anymore. On my PTR Arms Warrior, I try to reforge everything besides Crit to Expertise. The Warrior sits at around 10% expertise and I feel like its a much better trade off compared to Mastery. The same I feel should apply to Frost DK's but with a more emphasis on Mastery.

    Hastes value next patch for pvp will be very low considering the recent buff to Icy Talons. Haste is so high on the Tyrannical gear that its basically at a 9 second rune timer without anything reforged. Not to mention that in pvp, you will be stunned/immobilized a lot which devalues haste.

    The reason I prefer Expertise over Haste and even Mastery is because I value consistency of Obliterate landing over more sustained damage from extra frost damage. Most of 2 Handed Frost's burst damage in pvp will be from Killing Machine Obliterate procs. Frost Strike is just a filler ability that is just used for blood tap charges. Its damage for 2 handed frost is so low that mastery isn't really going to make the difference. Howling Blast is also completely useless because icy touch outclasses it because it can purge with the glyph. However, the only time its good to icy touch is from a Rime proc. Spamming any ability that uses a Frost rune just means less Obliterates.

    This is my assessment only. Most DK's will tell you not to bother with Expertise just because most pvp specs in this game have low dodge/parry ratings. They may also argue that if you get behind your opponents better, you won't have to worry about Expertise. The latter argument is definitely nonsense because any melee that isn't a Rogue or Feral is going to have difficulty getting behind another melee target that knows how to turn with the mouse.

    Expertise is also worthless if your class or your team mates can stun a lot. Stunned targets can't dodge or parry. Hope this helps you.
    "Machinehead" by Bush "Blood is like wine, unconscious all the time. If I had it all again, I'd change it all."
    (My top song since 05/02/2014) http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwBDnYj7plQ

  11. #11
    I can see where you're coming from, but it seems most of your ideals stem from an arena mindset, at least that's what I gathered from it. For instance, in terms of bg's Howling Blast is usually more favorable due to the splash dmg and spreading of Frost Fever, but I can definitely see the usefulness of Icy Touch dispel when there isn't a huge clusterfack goin on.
    And personally, I don't really have an issue with enemies parrying my hits at 3%. The only people that I actually notice parrying and get annoyed with are just blood DKs, and prot warriors, who probably gem/reforge for parry anyway. So my logic is, I very seldom run into those guys, so why alter my stats for a select few, ya know?

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