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  1. #1

    Why do all the guides suggest Dire beast over Thrill of the Hunt for survival?

    I've done sims on female dwarf and real world test, and i find ToTH about 5k higher in dps that DB. Is it just that the guides are out dated? ToTH is good in single target encounters, and actual become outstanding in aoe encounter, I haven't been in a boss fight where Dire Beast out performs Thrill of the Hunt.

  2. #2
    neither of those are good for surv unless it is an ONLY aoe fight... Fervor is way better. For most fights with adds like wind lord or ambershaper, you want to rock Crows and Fervor because even though Lynx is free; when there are many adds, the stacks get fucked up and you lose lots of dmg. Fervor is a spell that gets you out of the "no-focus hole" that you dig during fights as well as essentially giving a free MoC during fights rather than spending 5 sec for cobras. " ToTH is good in single target encounters" is completely false, it is wretched on single target. It fucks up your rotation, it is random and can proc when you have 100% focus, and you end up prioritizing many things over Arcane Shot. Go with fervor and use it when you need it, rather than using ToTH and hoping not to get fucked over by random proccs.

  3. #3
    In case you didn't know Fervor is on the GCD, so every time you use it you lose an attack. If you use it 15x thats 15 attacks you lost. ToTH is a proc and is not on the GCD, so it has no loss in DPS. If you are properly draining your focus in survival that chance of a proc at 100% focus is extremely rare. So to restate Fervor is a dps loss since it is on the gcd, and it should not even be considered.

  4. #4
    Epic! Arcanimus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rickhunterr View Post
    In case you didn't know Fervor is on the GCD, so every time you use it you lose an attack. If you use it 15x thats 15 attacks you lost. ToTH is a proc and is not on the GCD, so it has no loss in DPS. If you are properly draining your focus in survival that chance of a proc at 100% focus is extremely rare. So to restate Fervor is a dps loss since it is on the gcd, and it should not even be considered.
    Either I'm the only hunter on the planet with No GCD Fervor, or you've been reading a bit of misinformation.
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  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by rickhunterr View Post
    In case you didn't know Fervor is on the GCD, so every time you use it you lose an attack. If you use it 15x thats 15 attacks you lost. ToTH is a proc and is not on the GCD, so it has no loss in DPS. If you are properly draining your focus in survival that chance of a proc at 100% focus is extremely rare. So to restate Fervor is a dps loss since it is on the gcd, and it should not even be considered.
    You are so very wrong it hurts
    Quote Originally Posted by Jhazrun View Post
    You know how people talk about how you could just make a piece of rock with a billion health and damage and call it "hard"?

    Ra-den is what you get when a designer thinks that's actually a really good idea.
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  6. #6
    High Overlord BalwickZaik's Avatar
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    ^ Disagree with the above (Walajanilu). If you're doing it right, you won't end up in a "no-focus hole"; Survival has a very fluid rotation and the resources are always there when you need them if you don't make big mistakes.

    Anyway, I use ToTH for my SV spec purely because I find it much more effective than DB on multiple targets. Half price multishots soon add up with Imp. SrS hitting everything. I wouldn't use it on a single target fight though, as the freebie arcane shots are really uneccessary in the rotation.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Arcanimus View Post
    Either I'm the only hunter on the planet with No GCD Fervor, or you've been reading a bit of misinformation.
    Here is the spell info for fervor, so you're wrong.

    Spell Details

    Fervor
    Instant 30 sec cooldown
    Requires Hunter
    Requires level 60
    Instantly restores 50 Focus to you and your pet and an additional 50 Focus over 10 sec.


    Buff
    Fervor
    Generating 5 Focus every 1 sec.
    10 seconds remaining

    Duration 10 seconds
    School Physical
    Mechanic n/a
    Dispel type n/a
    GCD category Special
    Cost None
    Range 0 yards (Self)
    Cast time Instant
    Cooldown 30 seconds
    GCD 1 second
    Effect #1 Give Power (2)
    Value: 50
    Effect #2 Apply Aura: Periodically give power (2)
    Value: 5 every 1 second

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by rickhunterr View Post
    In case you didn't know Fervor is on the GCD, so every time you use it you lose an attack. If you use it 15x thats 15 attacks you lost. ToTH is a proc and is not on the GCD, so it has no loss in DPS. If you are properly draining your focus in survival that chance of a proc at 100% focus is extremely rare. So to restate Fervor is a dps loss since it is on the gcd, and it should not even be considered.
    http://www.wowhead.com/spell=82726#comments

    "It's off the GCD (meaning: usable anytime)."

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-20 at 07:20 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by rickhunterr View Post
    Here is the spell info for fervor, so you're wrong.

    Spell Details

    Fervor
    Instant 30 sec cooldown
    Requires Hunter
    Requires level 60
    Instantly restores 50 Focus to you and your pet and an additional 50 Focus over 10 sec.


    Buff
    Fervor
    Generating 5 Focus every 1 sec.
    10 seconds remaining

    Duration 10 seconds
    School Physical
    Mechanic n/a
    Dispel type n/a
    GCD category Special
    Cost None
    Range 0 yards (Self)
    Cast time Instant
    Cooldown 30 seconds
    GCD 1 second
    Effect #1 Give Power (2)
    Value: 50
    Effect #2 Apply Aura: Periodically give power (2)
    Value: 5 every 1 second
    LOL nice, learn to properly read that information before you actually speak or else make your self look like a fool... , like right now.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Dela2k10 View Post
    You are so very wrong it hurts
    About what?

  10. #10
    High Overlord TehTiny's Avatar
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    I just tested it out of curiosity. It is definitely on the GCD unless I'm a special snowflake.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by rickhunterr View Post
    Here is the spell info for fervor, so you're wrong.

    Spell Details

    Fervor
    Instant 30 sec cooldown
    Requires Hunter
    Requires level 60
    Instantly restores 50 Focus to you and your pet and an additional 50 Focus over 10 sec.


    Buff
    Fervor
    Generating 5 Focus every 1 sec.
    10 seconds remaining

    Duration 10 seconds
    School Physical
    Mechanic n/a
    Dispel type n/a
    GCD category Special
    Cost None
    Range 0 yards (Self)
    Cast time Instant
    Cooldown 30 seconds
    GCD 1 second
    Effect #1 Give Power (2)
    Value: 50
    Effect #2 Apply Aura: Periodically give power (2)
    Value: 5 every 1 second
    GCD category Special
    It will not trigger, nor is it affected by, the normal global CD
    However, if you use Binding Shot (also off GCD and special category) you wont be able to use fervor for 1 second, that's all
    Quote Originally Posted by Jhazrun View Post
    You know how people talk about how you could just make a piece of rock with a billion health and damage and call it "hard"?

    Ra-den is what you get when a designer thinks that's actually a really good idea.
    i7-3930k @ 4.6 | Sabertooth X79 | 32GB DDR3-1600 | GTX-680 Jetstream SLI | TX950W

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Valkryx View Post
    http://www.wowhead.com/spell=82726#comments

    "It's off the GCD (meaning: usable anytime)."

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-20 at 07:20 PM ----------



    LOL nice, learn to properly read that information before you actually speak or else make your self look like a fool... , like right now.

    You're right, thats why if you read further down, it was put back on the GCD during 5.1, so ya you look like a fool.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by TehTiny View Post
    I just tested it out of curiosity. It is definitely on the GCD unless I'm a special snowflake.
    and your lying, there is only like one spell it shares a gcd with and thats binding shot, there is no way u just "tested" this and still say its on the gcd

  14. #14
    High Overlord TehTiny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valkryx View Post
    and your lying, there is only like one spell it shares a gcd with and thats binding shot, there is no way u just "tested" this and still say its on the gcd
    It appears you are right. Must have been a hitch in my UI the first time. Oh well. I don't care for the tone of your post. We all make mistakes buddy.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by rickhunterr View Post
    You're right, thats why if you read further down, it was put back on the GCD during 5.1
    "Further down" where?

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by spiattalo View Post
    "Further down" where?
    Here is the thread on the spell id concerning the GCD.


    By Cialbi (11,422 – 3·9·90) on 2010/11/06 (Patch 4.0.1)
    This does trigger the GCD, for those of you who thought about putting this in a macro.

    I just wish that Longevity would affect this, as it used to affect the CD of every ability that you found in the BM tree (these were Intimidation, Bestial Wrath, and The Beast Within pre-4.0.1). Still is an awesome ability.
    Last edited by Cialbi on 2010/11/06 (Patch 4.0.1)

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    Vitaropago on 2012/11/22 (Patch 5.0.5)
    Just to make it very clear: This does NOT trigger the GCD in Pandaria and can hence be put in a macro just fine. This ability is back on the GCD in 5.1.0

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    By BigRed (1,839 – 6·19) on 2011/11/01 (Patch 4.2.2)
    Given all the negative feelings about it being on the GCD, I wanted to add my 2 cents.

    My current usage (no idea whether this is optimal) is to use this at the beginning of the fight: Serpent Sting, 2 Arcane Shot, and Kill Command exhaust my focus -- at this point I've the choice between firing a Cobra Shot or using Fervor.

    The shot takes longer than the GCD and returns less focus, which means that I'll fire the next Arcane Shot or Kill Command later than if I used Fervor and would have to follow this up with another Cobra Shot.
    Using Fervor on the other hand means for instance firing off 3! additional Arcane Shots (given passive focus regeneration) before I have to use the first cobra shot.

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    By Isotropic (136 – 0) on 2010/12/20 (Patch 4.0.3)
    because its on the gcd it dosnt get that much use.. maybe use in bossfights for max dps?

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    By Adieu (483 – 3) on 2010/09/19 (Patch 3.3.5)
    Looks like Thistle Tea ( Thistle Tea ) for hunters. Costs only one point, a must have for both PvE and PvP in Cata
    Last edited by Adieu on 2010/09/19 (Patch 3.3.5)

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    By snow72 (585 – 6) on 2011/01/24 (Patch 4.0.3)
    if used on each cooldown this would give about 5% more focus regen. which is BAD, since hunters already have a reduced focus regen (60% of energy regen speed). this also costs 1 global cooldown so i don't know if the extra focus is actually worth in terms of DPS. it could have an use in pvp if you can't use those cobra shots, for extra burst.

    still very bad compared to rogues 30% increased energy regen (which is like 10 times more powerfull.)

    i'd like to see this changed into a flat +focus regeneration tbh

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    By Neazy (4,884 – 4·63) on 2010/11/29 (Patch 4.0.3)
    Being on the GCD really sucks, and since the beast within only lasts 10 seconds you really can't afford to use 1 of the 10 GCD's on an ability that does no damage. Better to use it before you pop your cd's.

    Edit: Since people are wondering, I'll add a little more info, even though there really isn't much to worry about with this ability. It restores 50 focus to you and your pet and that's it, so it's pretty straightforward: use it when you're low on focus and make sure you don't cap out. Try to use it early so you can use it as many times as possible in a fight. The only things you need to know are:

    1) It's on the GCD. That means don't use it during TBW (like I already said above) and use it when your Kill Command has 1+ second left on its cooldown (so you don't delay your next KC by using this).
    2) Since it restores focus to your pet as well, the best time to use it would be when you and your pet are low on focus.

    That means you can wait a little bit for your pet to get low on focus before you pop this, but don't wait too long; using this ability 3x in a fight is always better than using it 2x in a fight, even if your pet doesn't get the full benefit out of those 3 uses.
    Last edited by Neazy on 2011/11/04 (Patch 4.2.2)

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    BigRed on 2011/11/01 (Patch 4.2.2)
    I'm a bit surprised about this statement - unless you've completely burned all your focus immediately prior to The Beast Within (something that you'd have very much control over), the 50% focus reduction means that you never need any focus replenishment in the first place. From personal experience, the only things I press when under the effect are Arcane Shot and Kill Command, no Cobra Shot and therefore of course also no Fervor.

  17. #17
    I'll be the 20th person in this thread to point it out... Fervor is OFF the global cool down. I use it all the time to be able to use AMoC and Black Arrow when low on focus.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by rickhunterr View Post
    Here is the thread on the spell id concerning the GCD.
    I don't see anything related to 5.1 and Fervor being on the GCD again.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by rickhunterr View Post
    You're right, thats why if you read further down, it was put back on the GCD during 5.1, so ya you look like a fool.
    oh really why dont you actually go try it on the game if you dont believe. it was never even in patch notes, there was a bug a lil bit after 5.1 but was fixed.

    Quote Originally Posted by http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/7922040#classes
    Hunter
    Aspect of the Hawk and Aspect of the Iron Hawk now increase ranged attack power by 15% (was 10%).
    Careful Aim now increases the critical strike chance of Steady Shot and Aimed Shot by 75% on targets who are above 80% health, down from 90%.
    The duration of Steady Focus has been increased to 20 seconds, up from 10 seconds.
    Aspect of the Fox has been removed.
    Steady Shot, Cobra Shot, and Barrage can now always be cast on the move.
    Lynx Rush has been changed. Lynx Rush is now a bleed effect that causes damage every 3 seconds over a period of 15 seconds, and stacks up to 9 times.
    Bestial Wrath no longer grants Hunter pets immunity to crowd control effects, and instead now breaks existing crowd control effects when activated.
    Glyphs
    The Glyph of Icy Solace has been renamed to Glyph of Solace, and now causes both Scattershot and Freezing Trap to remove all damage over time effects from the target.
    Glyph of Scattering has been removed.
    A new Major Glyph has been added: Glyph of Aimed Shot. This glyph allows Aimed Shot to be used while moving.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Puerto View Post
    I'll be the 20th person in this thread to point it out... Fervor is OFF the global cool down. I use it all the time to be able to use AMoC and Black Arrow when low on focus.
    Puerto is correct. Fervor is NOT on the GCD.


    @OP Chances are the reason you lose so much DPS when you Sim it on FD, is because your forgetting to add DB to the shot rotation.

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