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  1. #1

    Shadowcraft or Mr Robot.

    Simple question, whichone is better right now.

    (And please dont say SIM)

    Basically Mr Robot shows my stats ALRIGHT and Shadowcraft makes me change all (i know it was bugged a while ago so im wondering)

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Xeh.- View Post
    (And please dont say SIM)
    Why not, if I may ask?
    Simming to find your stat weights and throwing them into wowreforge will give you the best results. I'm not sure how good or bad AskMrRobot is for Rogues but it does seem to give weird suggestions more often than not for other classes. With that said, wowreforge is basically AskMrRobot that's more accurate.

  3. #3
    wowreforge gives me exactly the same as mr robot.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Xeh.- View Post
    wowreforge gives me exactly the same as mr robot.
    where are you getting the stat weights from?

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Xeh.- View Post
    wowreforge gives me exactly the same as mr robot.
    Wait till you reach the higher item levels. For me personally it started giving weird suggestions at 490+.

  6. #6
    Im 506ilevel pve.

    Im leaving the default stath weights.

    I been using Mr Robot the whole time and my dps is good, just want to make sure.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Xeh.- View Post
    Im leaving the default stath weights.
    That's... not optimal to say the least. ''DPS is good'' isn't really a valid argument, it could be even better if you sim out your own statweights.

  8. #8
    I been doing SIM and the stat weights are pretty equal, only a very small difference. (and i mean, really small)

    Still loooking for an answer on Shadowcraft or Mr Robot.

  9. #9
    The Patient Mutix's Avatar
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    Shadowcraft adjusts your stat weightings according to your gear. I like Shadowcraft when compared to AskMrRobot

  10. #10
    shadowcraft is better, askmrrobot is ok, but it uses its own stat weight, whereas shadowcraft will give you your own. Either way, it wont make a large difference in damage, reforging (unless yours are very very wrong) will never make a difference larger than a few hundred dps.

  11. #11
    Shadowcraft is better based on most elitists rogues. close this please

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Xeh.- View Post
    Im 506ilevel pve.

    Im leaving the default stath weights.

    I been using Mr Robot the whole time and my dps is good, just want to make sure.
    Both shadowcraft and mr robot are "good". If you dont want to get into sims or anything, and are still using the default weights (not weights based off your personal armor) then it really doesnt matter which you use, both will give you a good, general answer.

    Asking which is better is getting more specific. Getting more specific accurate answers to general stat weights doesnt really tell you much more, while getting "good" answers based off -your- stat weights would tell you a lot more.

    To answer your question, shadowcraft is made for rogues by rogues, mr robot is made for WoW in general, at almost every point in time, shadowcraft will give you better answers.

  13. #13
    AskMrRobot gives you a general reforge, while Shadowcraft gives you what is best for your gear, but on a stand and stab fight, which is rather non-existent in the current tier.

    The most realistic answer is that there are other more important things you can do to increase your dps, like planning your cooldown usage, maintaining uptime, and general raid awareness.

    Personally, I use them my own reforges to make transitioning to combat less painful, i.e. exp around 6.5% (orc racial), hit remaining around 7.5% when switching weps and favoring haste over crit.

    Bottom line, go with either one, and focus on the fight

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Impa View Post
    AskMrRobot gives you a general reforge, while Shadowcraft gives you what is best for your gear, but on a stand and stab fight, which is rather non-existent in the current tier.
    This simply isn't an accurate comparison. AMR tries to do the same thing as Shadowcraft for reforging, but it uses stat weights (either default taken from A source somewhere - probably EJ's BiS stat weights) to reforge you, and shadowcraft changes your weights based on your gear. Both assume patchwerk situations. The only variance in weights from patchwerk to not depends on your spec, and is currently best tested by playing with Shadowcraft's engine or Simulationcraft... but we're picking hairs at that point.

    Shadowcraft will give YOUR character better reforging options than opening AMR and plugging yourself in. If you generate your own stat weights through ShC or SimC and use AMR/WoWreforge, you should get (almost) the exact same results.

    Again, as long as you aren't missing relevant caps (hit, expertise for combat/sub) and basic stat priorities, you're talking hundreds of DPS movement, not multiple thousands or tens of thousands that separate "okay" from "good" players.

    Shadowcraft is approximately equal to SimulationCraft + WoWreforge (for rogues). AMR is approximately equivalent to WoWreforge (for everyone). AMR is not a proper substitute for having your gear analyzed.
    Last edited by Kael; 2013-02-19 at 04:54 AM.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Mugajak View Post
    This simply isn't an accurate comparison. AMR tries to do the same thing as Shadowcraft for reforging, but it uses stat weights (either default taken from A source somewhere - probably EJ's BiS stat weights) to reforge you, and shadowcraft changes your weights based on your gear. Both assume patchwerk situations. The only variance in weights from patchwerk to not depends on your spec, and is currently best tested by playing with Shadowcraft's engine or Simulationcraft... but we're picking hairs at that point..
    You're correct. I guess what I was going for is that there are two sides to reforges. The current gear i.e. the current levels of stats available on each piece being one, and the encounter mechanics being the other. Crit will be more useful on fights with some downtime, exp will become more valuable on burst mechanics and fights with positional issues, etc. So both fight mechanics and current gear affect the optimal reforging, and they also affect each other.

    AMR allows you to input your own stat values, and gives you general indications: cap exp and hit, then stack mastery, reforging it out of either crit or haste. Shadowcraft narrows this down considerably - that amount of mastery, and that amount of exp etc., and nothing more or less = optimal dps for your gear.

    So in my opinion, since neither one takes into account fight mechanics, and with Shadowcraft offering a narrower perspective, it also means it potentially accepts a higher chance for error on distinct tacs. Without the possibility to accurately input fight conditions, I can really only put an equal between the reforges of both AMR and Shadowcraft, and focus somewhere else. I can however go in Shadowcraft and quickly see how much Physical Vulnerability not being on the target affected my damage to that boss, so from a utility perspective, Shadowcraft is miles ahead.

    In any event, as long as the general reforge guidelines are followed, any realistic difference in DPS between SW and other reforging tools is so minute it would turn this thread into a purely academic debate, if it weren't for the lack of numbers to back up either side. For the purpose of this exercise, we could've talked about music

    To get back to the OP's initial question, my own opinion would be to go with whatever brought you progression and an it lvl of 506, or go with the other. You won't really notice any meaningful difference, and I suspect it had very little to do with your accomplishments.

  16. #16
    General answer: Use them both because it's always good to use multiple sources.

    Better answer: Shadowcraft will give you stronger/more-accurate stat weights which you can then plug into AMR if that what you're more comfortable using.

    Note: Your stat weights may also change after a reforge is done, so it'd be a good idea to know which style you enjoy playing more. For example, my current amount of gear for Assassination says Crit maths out better than Haste, but after I hit reforge and it grabs more Crit on my gear, Haste peaks above Crit again.
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  17. #17
    Quick question, does anyone know why Shadowcraft does not take into account your 5% bonus agi from having all leather equipped? I loaded my character up and it said I had 14470 Agi, but my character screen said I have 15431 I went through every piece of gear and couldnt figure it out until a guild mate reminded me about the bonus. Seems strange that Shadowcraft does not calculate an additional 562 agi into its DPS calculator.

  18. #18
    Err can you give us your character name and realm?

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Dolophonos View Post
    Quick question, does anyone know why Shadowcraft does not take into account your 5% bonus agi from having all leather equipped? I loaded my character up and it said I had 14470 Agi, but my character screen said I have 15431 I went through every piece of gear and couldnt figure it out until a guild mate reminded me about the bonus. Seems strange that Shadowcraft does not calculate an additional 562 agi into its DPS calculator.
    Well noticed! I've got the same on my character (Finalreturn - Bronze Dragonflight EU)
    My +agi is 16,139 in game, 15371 on Shadowcraft. 15371 * 1.05 = 16139.55. so definitely not counting 5%.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Smashysmashy View Post
    Well noticed! I've got the same on my character (Finalreturn - Bronze Dragonflight EU)
    My +agi is 16,139 in game, 15371 on Shadowcraft. 15371 * 1.05 = 16139.55. so definitely not counting 5%.
    Ah, okay. I'm pretty sure it's granting you the added stats from gear, since that stat section is all about rating, then adds the flask and whatever other modifiers are selected before applying percentile buffs. You should note that your armory has you at 16375 agility, not 16139 - but 236 is BASE and doesn't rely on your gear. This makes more sense when you consider we're under the "gear" tab and not a "total stats" tab =).

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