1. #1

    [PvP] Fire Mage vs Hunter ... getting completely destroyed

    Hey guys,

    dinged 90 this weekend, bought full contender and decided to start pvping to try and cap my honor before 5.2 hits. Now I expected to get rammed into pretty hard considering pretty much everyone I come accross in bgs is in full malevolent and I am sitting here in a mix of crafted pvp blues (now have a few dreadful pieces) and pve gear. But what actually happened was different. I could beat pretty much any melee (ferals are harder) that came against me if I managed to not get touched and stood a fair chance against most casters by managing CDs and keeping them silenced stunned for long periods of time.

    Hunters, however, have been a real nightmare. Who's idea was it to give full freedom of movement while shooting to a class that hits this hard. Typical scenario is the following. They pop BW, they silence shot me and kill me before I can do anything. If I block the shot and wait for BW to fade, they can still kill me in less than 5-10 seconds and, normally, they are still over 80% health (I can stun them but their freakin pets hit like a goddamn truck)....they just hit so freaking hard and I have almost no way to stop them.

    Right now, I am sitting at 15% pvp power and 50% pvp resil. Typically that means that comparing this to full malevolent. I am missing around 35% power and 10-15% resil. Now 35% power is HUGE, meaning I will be able to drop people alot faster. However 10-15% resil is pretty low...which indicates to me that hunters will still be able to drop me insanely fast even in close to BiS pvp gear. Has this been your experiences aswell.?

    It seems like my only chance would be to get a lucky pyro earlier on, deep them and pyro/AT spam them then combust and hope they die before they can pop deterrance. Anything I am missing?

    Please help a follow mage get away from big bow wielding meanies and their freaking zoo.

    TLDR: Hunters are either a very hard counter to fire mages, they are OP or I am not getting something...help?!?

  2. #2
    hunters counter mages.
    /thread
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  3. #3
    there's a difference between countering a class and being able to kill said class before it can even react... if that were the case hunter should be able to kill any casters and healers in the same time span. There has to be something I am not doing

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by nox156 View Post
    Hey guys,

    dinged 90 this weekend, bought full contender and decided to start pvping to try and cap my honor before 5.2 hits. Now I expected to get rammed into pretty hard considering pretty much everyone I come accross in bgs is in full malevolent and I am sitting here in a mix of crafted pvp blues (now have a few dreadful pieces) and pve gear. But what actually happened was different. I could beat pretty much any melee (ferals are harder) ...

    TLDR: Hunters are either a very hard counter to fire mages, they are OP or I am not getting something...help?!?

    You just said that you own with your mage you kill melee easily that vastly outgear you. And you complain about hunter whilst your class is OP against melee?

    Live with it, there are anti classes in this game and you have to contend with ONE!

    /thread

  5. #5
    Hunter is just very strong. No matter what class you play.

    Insane dmg himslef ofc on the move, sick dmg by pet zoo, shitloads instant cc for the lol, 2 times deterrnace and dont forget sick selfheal. Oh yeah i didnt mention stealth lol and knockback trap and also melee dmg since mop.

    Basicly all cool things from all classes put in one class.

  6. #6
    Dreadlord Ironjaws-Mike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by psyquest View Post
    You just said that you own with your mage you kill melee easily that vastly outgear you. And you complain about hunter whilst your class is OP against melee?

    Live with it, there are anti classes in this game and you have to contend with ONE!

    /thread
    I must agree on this. That you with so bad gear is still able to kill so good geared player, that is almost impossible. I have a rogue, with probably same gearing as yours, mainly crafted with few pieces bought and rest PvE gear, and seriously, Im a free kill and I mostly tickle people, and only good for helping CC, interupt and ninja-cap etc.

    So you able to kill players like that, apperently all classes with some trouble, with that level of gear? And you whine about a hunter is able to kill you? : / You should be amazed by your own talent lol.

    And I guess it will be better when you get better gear, complaining about a class that vastly outgear you and that kills you with all their CD's on, that is a bit ridicolous imo.

    Best suggestion is to do like Paladins always did with Mages; avoid them as much as possible.
    Last edited by Ironjaws-Mike; 2013-02-18 at 07:25 PM.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Ironjaws-Mike View Post
    I must agree on this. That you with so bad gear is still able to kill so good geared player, that is almost impossible. I have a rogue, with probably same gearing as yours, mainly crafted with few pieces bought and rest PvE gear, and seriously, Im a free kill and I mostly tickle people, and only good for helping CC, interupt and ninja-cap etc.

    So you able to kill players like that, apperently all classes with some trouble, with that level of gear? And you whine about a hunter is able to kill you? : / You should be amazed by your own talent lol.

    And I guess it will be better when you get better gear, complaining about a class that vastly outgear you and that kills you with all their CD's on, that is a bit ridicolous imo.

    Best suggestion is to do like Paladins always did with Mages; avoid them as much as possible.
    I just got back in the PvP scene and I guess I am still under the illusions that skills > gear in this game. This is true to a certain extent but apparently there are limits heh.

    I just hate the fact that it is very hard for a new pvp player to get up to speed. You do terrible damage to all around you and are very easy to kill. In turn, that puts your team at a disadvantage and makes it so you lose most of the games you plan on (at least that's been my experience thus far) taking you that much longer to get geared enough to be worth a damn. I guess that's a different issue altogether.

  8. #8
    Dreadlord Ironjaws-Mike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nox156 View Post
    I just got back in the PvP scene and I guess I am still under the illusions that skills > gear in this game. This is true to a certain extent but apparently there are limits heh.

    I just hate the fact that it is very hard for a new pvp player to get up to speed. You do terrible damage to all around you and are very easy to kill. In turn, that puts your team at a disadvantage and makes it so you lose most of the games you plan on (at least that's been my experience thus far) taking you that much longer to get geared enough to be worth a damn. I guess that's a different issue altogether.
    That is an illusion yes, cause dont matter how skilled you are, you can't crit the insane damage as a fully geared player can. Skill matter yes, but not in such vast differences in gear. If you both where of equal gear, then obviously does skill matter (and well, some classes are just better against others).

    I agree on that, sure I can be usefull with CC's and annoy the shit out my opponents, but thats pretty much it. A suckish road to walk before you get better gear, were you are the one EVERBODY target cause they see 'Oh, 300k-ish hp! Free kill, lets camp the shit out of him/her!", and usually get shit from team mates as well, nothing new there. Though as you said, an different issue.

    So until you get the marvelous gear you need, you better avoid hunters as much as possible until you get up to a more even ground with them.

  9. #9
    I've not played fire mage competitively since 85 and didn't really have any huge issues back then. With the changes coming in 5.2 - will that affect much pvpwise? I recall running up and down bg's dotting people then spamming scorch (no mana cost and runcasting) to get procs and I used to destroy people. I saw something about scorch getting a base mana cost so I assume that makes it more difficult?

    I did was a guy playing 1v2 arena last night as a fire mage and he was absolutely destroying opposition 'PoM' or something whatever that is...

    I'm sticking with my DK till 5.2 hits then getting my mage fully PVP geared too with the hopes to go fire - Can't be bothered trying to gear whilst getting 1 shotted - might aswell wait for the crafted dreadful gear

  10. #10
    I Pvp as a Fire Mage, and I do sympathise with the OP.

    Basically, if the Hunter is equipped with a brain, you have no chance whatsoever.

    Your #1 tactic is to runaway. Maybe dragons breath into an invis and run for it. I play Dwarf which enables me to clear dots before invising, this may not apply to you.

    If you are unlucky enough to be in a position where you actually have to fight the hunter:

    - Try to nova/cone of cold pets as well as the hunter, they do significant damage...keep them away.
    - Use Deep Freeze liberally to get a decent combust up. Do this early, pre deterrence if you can (since deterrence does not remove dots).

    Thats about it. As a Fire Mage we have to cast more than Frost Mages, and straight away that puts us at a disadvantage vs Hunters. Silencing, Scatter, pet root, concussive, bang bang we dead. There really isn't much you can do other than avoiding them.

    Oh and Psyquest - Feral Druids also Hard counter Mages. It is my personal belief that Rogues will too in 5.2. So there are two currently and possibly 3 in 5.2.

  11. #11
    hey
    Firemage PvP has a higher amount of minimum skill (Only means as a Frostmage you got your dmg with blue gear and using procs, firemage needs a lot of gameplay, if you really dont know what you are doing, you do nothing in arenas at all). PoM (more burst or 2 time burst)or Scorch (fast frostjaw shatter, a lot of fire inline counter) is just a different gameplay like RoF (i breathe the whole team, all in ring, KING) and Frostjaw (more burst cause more procs Fireshatter). The 1vs2 Firemage should be Droon, yes he destroys whoel teams from 1.2 to 1.5k rating, but keep in mind he is fullgeared t2 firemage and is able to "global" nearly everyone who has a) no trinket and b) no def cds. Every Firemage has a quite decent burst, it depends on the time you got no burst and what you do with your 4-6 seks "idle" time to manage your procs. There is also a 1vs2 Hunter called "Besthunterz" again full t2. If Droon and the hunter would fight against.... Hunter should win 98%

    If you want to beat normal hunters some things you should force:

    your opening - invis for sure find the hunter, get your heating up proc, breathe the hunter. You want his trinket cast sheep or ring into breathe... bad player will use trinket, normal player Beast within >>silent shoot. keep an eye on your infernoblast cd, dont waste it get your pyro proc. if he got no trinket upset your deep und global him otherwise get his trinket breathe him >> sheep or deep him and make pressure with procs forcing his trinket if you can its time to sheep his pet .

    all i said above is offense opening gameplay with pressure and focus on his trinkets. If you play against a offense hunter aswell like Besthunterz you have to play more tight, get your first heating up try the trinket thing but LoS him and get your procs on his pet, safe your pyro proc with slowfall trash buff and pull as much dmg you can like alter time one shot makro, sure its no one shot if you cant deep him, but you really surprise him with PoM pyro >> pyro proc >> Pom Pyro >> pyro proc (if you crit him you also take combust).

    Overall a Firemage shouldnt win against BM Hunter, its not serious if the pet is on dope it is able to one shot you under 50%HP against 68%res and 16% physical dmg reduce molten armor.

    hope it helps a bit

    Arsi

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-20 at 06:55 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryft View Post
    I Pvp as a Fire Mage, and I do sympathise with the OP.

    Basically, if the Hunter is equipped with a brain, you have no chance whatsoever.

    Thats about it. As a Fire Mage we have to cast more than Frost Mages, and straight away that puts us at a disadvantage vs Hunters. Silencing, Scatter, pet root, concussive, bang bang we dead. There really isn't much you can do other than avoiding them.

    Oh and Psyquest - Feral Druids also Hard counter Mages. It is my personal belief that Rogues will too in 5.2. So there are two currently and possibly 3 in 5.2.
    Against Hunter i only cast RoF/Fj Sheep. Scorch ist just looking good cause you cast it while moving, in RBG its a good choice fishing for proc and save it for tar switch. Arena i prefer PoM because you can play without casting firetree spells, you manage your Pyro proc by using inferno blast 2 times and try to get your burst upset oder try to continue critting in novas. So much warrior teams... your firetree is useless against them 20% of the fight
    Last edited by ArsImmortali; 2013-02-20 at 05:58 AM.

  12. #12
    The Patient Taiknee's Avatar
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    Fire mages stand the best chance at beating a hunter 1 vs 1. Try Bomb -> Scorch until in his face -> CoC -> Scorch+Nova -> Scorch+DF -> Scorch+FB -> Pyro! -> Pyro! -> Combust. -> DB+Evocate if needed -> etc. etc. This should mess him up pretty bad. After DB+Evo, TW to maintain high health as long as poss/until he dispels it. Ice Block his major CDs and maintain your shield. This usually works for me pretty well, but I'm sure others have some better strategies.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by nox156 View Post
    Hunters, however, have been a real nightmare. Who's idea was it to give full freedom of movement while shooting to a class that hits this hard. Typical scenario is the following. They pop BW, they silence shot me and kill me before I can do anything. If I block the shot and wait for BW to fade, they can still kill me in less than 5-10 seconds and, normally, they are still over 80% health (I can stun them but their freakin pets hit like a goddamn truck)....they just hit so freaking hard and I have almost no way to stop them.
    Just poly their pet when they BW, it no longer makes their pets immune to cc. Stampede is a long CD, just ice block it. After that a BM hunter really hasn't much to help themselves. Stay up in their face to use dragons breath or even get behind them. Typically any clown opening with silencing shot and blowing their CDs off the bat isn't a very skilled player so you'd probably catch them keyboard turning to face you as you scorch their head off from behind.

  14. #14
    Fire isnt even viable for pve becous of lack dmg and rng factor. So you cant even speak about fire pvp. It isnt vialbe for now at all.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Sinndor View Post
    Fire isnt even viable for pve becous of lack dmg and rng factor. So you cant even speak about fire pvp. It isnt vialbe for now at all.
    Ah what a Dogshit... Fire is viable in pve and pvp...

  16. #16
    The Patient royals's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sinndor View Post
    Fire isnt even viable for pve becous of lack dmg and rng factor. So you cant even speak about fire pvp. It isnt vialbe for now at all.
    This is not true. Although requiring a higher gear level to be comparable damage wise, especially to arcane in the current patch. Fire is definitely "viable" for pve and/or pvp.
    Last edited by royals; 2013-02-20 at 08:57 PM. Reason: iPad >.>
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