1. #1
    High Overlord Aqacia's Avatar
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    All raid items (except tier set) available in Thunderforged version?

    I always thought that all items that can drop from the new raid Throne of Thunder could also come in a thunderforged version. But when I compare wowdb's normal mode items (http://ptr.wowdb.com/items?filter-pa...22&filter-af=8) with wowdb's thunderforged normal items (http://ptr.wowdb.com/items?filter-pa...=5&filter-af=8) some of them are not available in a thunderforged version. Same with heroic items (http://ptr.wowdb.com/items?filter-pa...=1&filter-af=8) compared to heroic thunderforged items (http://ptr.wowdb.com/items?filter-pa...=6&filter-af=8)

    Are some of the items missing from wowdb or is it intentional that not all items, but instead only a few, will be available in a thunderforged version?

  2. #2
    I don't think every Thunderforged item has been datamined, but there's supposed to be a thunderforged version of everything short of tier.

  3. #3
    Brewmaster Raxxed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trape View Post
    I don't think every Thunderforged item has been datamined, but there's supposed to be a thunderforged version of everything short of tier.
    Yep. Even trinkets exist.
    Quote Originally Posted by judgementofantonidas View Post
    Blizzard offered cardboard cut outs with poster pictures of bosses stapled on them upside down and sideways and many players now feel that is raiding.

  4. #4
    Talk about RNG hell. Full BiS won't happen, though it wasn't going to happen in T14 anyway with VP capping. Hope they don't bring it back in 5.3 because deciding to use VP on heroic items vs the chance of thunderforged will drive me crazy lol.

  5. #5
    Brewmaster Raxxed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrExcelion View Post
    Talk about RNG hell. Full BiS won't happen, though it wasn't going to happen in T14 anyway with VP capping. Hope they don't bring it back in 5.3 because deciding to use VP on heroic items vs the chance of thunderforged will drive me crazy lol.
    I got raped enough with RNG in t14, the belt from Tsulong/Leishi never dropped in.. almost 20 combined kills.. on 25man..
    The belt appeared on the BMAH 2 days ago, and I snapped it up. Just my luck, having to pay for something ill probably instantly replace next tier.
    Quote Originally Posted by judgementofantonidas View Post
    Blizzard offered cardboard cut outs with poster pictures of bosses stapled on them upside down and sideways and many players now feel that is raiding.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Raxxed View Post
    I got raped enough with RNG in t14, the belt from Tsulong/Leishi never dropped in.. almost 20 combined kills.. on 25man..
    The belt appeared on the BMAH 2 days ago, and I snapped it up. Just my luck, having to pay for something ill probably instantly replace next tier.
    You must have a lot of spare gold then, to pay up BMAH ransom fee for almost irrelevant item I'm nowhere near middle crowd either, in fact i'm "wow 1%" with over a million but i'd never cough up 100k for item 3 days before patch Unless it was like 10-20k though, my server is overcrowded and BMAH items reach outstanding prices, like 120k on hunter gun which is only 483 item level.

    Back to central point, RNG is a pain in the arse, esp in 10-man. I killed Heroic Spirit Kings for the first time today and guess what, not one but TWO shards! Tsulong healing trinket never dropped. Many people still have raid finder gear, despite 6 HC and whole normal on farm since quite a while. Our druid GM still has 476 inscribed jade fan (offhand) while his paladin alt has Garajal HC shield. I raided heroics with BLUE weapon up to 498 item level equipped, because nothing ever showed up for me, be it LFR, normal or Heroic. Legendary stuff banked for 2 months, gg.

    With shit like that I don't think the concept of "full BIS list" still exists, especially with gargantuan T15 loot tables (30% of this shit will never drop during whole patch, in any given 10-man), then there's the TF crap, screwing over 10man even more. It was pretty possible to reach full BIS in 10-month long Dragon Soul, but now the tiers won't last more than 6 mo. and only people getting "BIS" are propably those that are doing cutting edge progression, gear funneling via alts, farming heroic content since week one. But even then RNG can screw up, Raxxed is pretty damn cutting edge and number god still says fuck you.

    We need loot system overhaul for PVE. Maybe not to the point of PvP "choose your epix for your points" but at least having base itemization only for NORMAL mode. Heroic bosses should drop just reagent items, similar to Firelands trash drop system. I'd imagine something like this would be great:

    -Normal raids drop Normal gear. (2 Items in 10man, 6 Items in 25man)
    -Heroic raids drop Normal gear AND the Heroic-only Upgrade Item Reagent, which uses the vendor to trade Normal item + this token for your Heroic item. Works with ANY Raid Finder or Normal item. (2 Items + 1 HC Token in 10-man, 6 Items + 3 HC Tokens in 25-man)

    With that system in place there will be NO disenchanting of heroic progression loot due to shitty RNG. Heroic boss would always be an upgrade to your guild. Coin rolls from Heroic kills would remain unchanged and net you random Heroic item upon winning a loot roll. We need a loot system supporting so many difficulty levels we have atm. That's general idea, feel free to comment on this.
    Last edited by Esubane; 2013-03-04 at 02:17 AM.

  7. #7
    Not really sure if I mind the big loot tables that, poor rng is incredibly annoying (my priest has found out the hard way:P) but at the same time I kinda enjoy the chance of getting something useful from a boss past the first few kills. Fair chance that ToT is taking the rng part a bit too far with both massive loot tables and thunderforged items though.

  8. #8
    With shit like that I don't think the concept of "full BIS list" still exists, especially with gargantuan T15 loot tables (30% of this shit will never drop during whole patch, in any given 10-man), then there's the TF crap, screwing over 10man even more. It was pretty possible to reach full BIS in 10-month long Dragon Soul, but now the tiers won't last more than 6 mo. and only people getting "BIS" are propably those that are doing cutting edge progression, gear funneling via alts, farming heroic content since week one. But even then RNG can screw up, Raxxed is pretty damn cutting edge and number god still says fuck you.
    I believe that's the intention, they don't want people to create a BiS list and just take that gear. And as long as T15 encounters aren't tuned assuming a certain amount of TF items, it'll be fine. And from what I've heard from some people, the Firelands "upgrade reagent" just caused more loot drama from needing to come up with more rules to who gets what when.

    If you want to create a BiS list, Thunderforged items included, go ahead, but you have to understand it's unlikely and probably not even intended that you'll fill that out. If your gear is good enough to kill the bosses though, what's the big deal?

  9. #9
    Farming trash for Thunderforge Weapons prob has to be the dumbest incentive ever. Weapons should never be trash drops, they're not even BoE. Anyone else hoping for another firelands form of farming trash?

    I wonder whats the reasoning behind no thunderforged tier?

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aqacia View Post
    Are some of the items missing from wowdb or is it intentional that not all items, but instead only a few, will be available in a thunderforged version?
    Some are missing and won't show up until the patch has been live for a while. Every item that isn't a tier piece should have a Thunderforged version though.

  11. #11
    Brewmaster Raxxed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chaud View Post
    Some are missing and won't show up until the patch has been live for a while. Every item that isn't a tier piece should have a Thunderforged version though.
    Heroic thunderforged trinkets.
    *drool*
    Quote Originally Posted by judgementofantonidas View Post
    Blizzard offered cardboard cut outs with poster pictures of bosses stapled on them upside down and sideways and many players now feel that is raiding.

  12. #12
    I get the idea of thunderforged working where your farming a specific boss who doesnt give you anything useful, and with this actually potentially getting something from it. But as others have said the RNG of it sounds sucky. I think it woudl work better with something like the item upgrade vendor using a duplicate to upgrade it to thunderforged.

    For instance in the current tier my group never got around to vizier heroic so he's been useless for us for months now. Now with the thunderforged system we could just end up never seeing a thunderforged item. If instead I looted his caster ring, then X amount of time later the ring drops again and noone else can use it, I just use that duplicate ring to upgrade my ring to the thunderforged equivalent. Or even just simplify it within the itemupgrade system, either upgrade with valour or with duplicate items.

    EDIT: Just considering this from a 10 man perspective as well, two items out of the 20 drops that bosses seem to have in throne of thunder is a pretty significant RNG benchmark. I think seeing duplicate items may well be rare enough that the whole 'guaranteed' eventually thunderforged items would still have benefits over a while and not be just mass upgrades.
    Last edited by Aeshmi; 2013-03-05 at 12:05 AM.

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