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  1. #1

    mage 5.2 BIS lists

    mage 5.2 BIS lists, are there any out there?

  2. #2
    Immortal Polarthief's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gesen View Post
    mage 5.2 BIS lists, are there any out there?
    No luck finding them, though Arcane's BiS list won't be made until this roller-coaster of tweaking stops.

  3. #3
    Bloodsail Admiral Nathyiel's Avatar
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    Very too early to make BiS list : there's change one or twice a week, especially for Arcane.
    Some gear also change a lot.

    Wait till a week after 5.2, it will be here for heroic.
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  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Nathyiel View Post
    Very too early to make BiS list : there's change one or twice a week, especially for Arcane.
    Some gear also change a lot.

    Wait till a week after 5.2, it will be here for heroic.
    this.

    Same answer for "whats the best spec @ 5.2"
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  5. #5
    Plus we dont know yet if all the datamined loot actually drops anywhere, plus then there are the "thunderforged" items that skew up BiS lists

  6. #6
    Mechagnome jtmzac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrgreenthump View Post
    ...plus then there are the "thunderforged" items that skew up BiS lists
    I had assumed BiS lists would exclude thunderforged items like they exclude item upgrades.

    As for BiS lists the best you can do is make it up yourself on the wowhead ptr. It won't be accurate but you'll get a rough idea.
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    Immortal Polarthief's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eihwaz View Post
    this.

    Same answer for "whats the best spec @ 5.2"
    I mean, you can actually answer that... Kinda.

    Due to the heavy nerfs, at this EXACT moment, it goes: Frost > Fire > Arcane, unless your gear is really high (like 500+); then it'd go Fire > Frost > Arcane.

    By the end of the patch (again, at this EXACT moment if no more changes were made), it will be Fire > Arcane > Frost, because of Frost's caps and horrible scaling.

    And then Fire will be nerfed for scaling too well, which will go right back to Arcane > Frost > Fire. We're doomed to roller-coaster.

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    Dreadlord Cycobi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragon9870 View Post
    I mean, you can actually answer that... Kinda.

    Due to the heavy nerfs, at this EXACT moment, it goes: Frost > Fire > Arcane, unless your gear is really high (like 500+); then it'd go Fire > Frost > Arcane.

    By the end of the patch (again, at this EXACT moment if no more changes were made), it will be Fire > Arcane > Frost, because of Frost's caps and horrible scaling.

    And then Fire will be nerfed for scaling too well, which will go right back to Arcane > Frost > Fire. We're doomed to roller-coaster.
    I was under the impression that come 5.2 Fire was going to be better; that might be because my iLvl's quite high already but with the new normal mode gear Fire's certainly going to scale well.

    I can only hope it ends up something *similar* to 4.3; where Fire was strongest in some situations, Arcane the other, so it felt as if you had more choice for progression-based raiding, compared to now where it feels forced. Don't get me wrong, I love Arcane but I'd still prefer more options all the time.

  9. #9
    Immortal Polarthief's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Serene View Post
    I was under the impression that come 5.2 Fire was going to be better; that might be because my iLvl's quite high already but with the new normal mode gear Fire's certainly going to scale well.

    I can only hope it ends up something *similar* to 4.3; where Fire was strongest in some situations, Arcane the other, so it felt as if you had more choice for progression-based raiding, compared to now where it feels forced. Don't get me wrong, I love Arcane but I'd still prefer more options all the time.
    Fire's definitely going to be better. Arcane atm is so broken (bad) it's not even funny. Frost is a strong specc, but because of both Haste and Crit soft-capping as it is, it'll be terrible by the end of 5.2.

    Fire's going to be JUST as strong as Live (slightly stronger because we can have both Scorch and PoM). It just depends on your gear, which is obviously going up once 5.2 lands, but if your gear stays the same, Fire is literally JUST as strong.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Dragon9870 View Post
    I mean, you can actually answer that... Kinda.

    Due to the heavy nerfs, at this EXACT moment, it goes: Frost > Fire > Arcane, unless your gear is really high (like 500+); then it'd go Fire > Frost > Arcane.

    By the end of the patch (again, at this EXACT moment if no more changes were made), it will be Fire > Arcane > Frost, because of Frost's caps and horrible scaling.

    And then Fire will be nerfed for scaling too well, which will go right back to Arcane > Frost > Fire. We're doomed to roller-coaster.
    Yeah, but nore ore cares which spec is the best at this exact moment. Whats interesting is which one is gonna be the best when 5.2 hits live.
    So there could be any numbers of changes from today to release that could change the result.

    In the end, we can't know for sure .
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  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Dragon9870 View Post
    Fire's definitely going to be better. Arcane atm is so broken (bad) it's not even funny. Frost is a strong specc, but because of both Haste and Crit soft-capping as it is, it'll be terrible by the end of 5.2.

    Fire's going to be JUST as strong as Live (slightly stronger because we can have both Scorch and PoM). It just depends on your gear, which is obviously going up once 5.2 lands, but if your gear stays the same, Fire is literally JUST as strong.
    well a bit lesser at start cause we feel the invoc nerf at first, but then ye it basicly is the same.. and more crit means better performance pretty much

  12. #12
    Immortal Polarthief's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eihwaz View Post
    Yeah, but nore ore cares which spec is the best at this exact moment. Whats interesting is which one is gonna be the best when 5.2 hits live.
    So there could be any numbers of changes from today to release that could change the result.

    In the end, we can't know for sure .
    While true, one thing's a given: If Fire's scaling doesn't get another knee-jerk reaction and neither Arcane nor Frost get a 100% damage buff, it will be, without a doubt Fire > Arcane > Frost by the end of 5.2/5.3. Once we get geared, that's the only flow it can follow because Fire scales beautifully, and Frost scales like shit, plus both Crit and Haste soft caps will be met.

    Quote Originally Posted by mrgreenthump View Post
    well a bit lesser at start cause we feel the invoc nerf at first, but then ye it basicly is the same.. and more crit means better performance pretty much
    Oh right I forgot about that >.> Been so used to Rune of Shit

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Dragon9870 View Post
    While true, one thing's a given: If Fire's scaling doesn't get another knee-jerk reaction and neither Arcane nor Frost get a 100% damage buff, it will be, without a doubt Fire > Arcane > Frost by the end of 5.2/5.3. Once we get geared, that's the only flow it can follow because Fire scales beautifully, and Frost scales like shit, plus both Crit and Haste soft caps will be met.
    I agree, yet whats interests me is what spec will be the best when 5.2 hits live, there's no doubt fire will shine at the end if there's no nerf due to good scaling .
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  14. #14
    Immortal Polarthief's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eihwaz View Post
    I agree, yet whats interests me is what spec will be the best when 5.2 hits live, there's no doubt fire will shine at the end if there's no nerf due to good scaling .
    I feel like it depends on your gear. I'm just going Fire because I feel like at my gear level, it's higher than Frost.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Dragon9870 View Post
    I feel like it depends on your gear. I'm just going Fire because I feel like at my gear level, it's higher than Frost.
    Well, pretty much this : http://eu.battle.net/wow/fr/characte...has/Daa/simple

    I have 4/5 crit part I kept "just in case" but lower ilvl, i'll check when 5.2 hits if those a better than the gear I have on atm, but I think my gear is mosted suited to Frost.
    But I hate frost in pve . Except heroics.
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  16. #16
    Immortal Polarthief's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eihwaz View Post
    Well, pretty much this : http://eu.battle.net/wow/fr/characte...has/Daa/simple

    I have 4/5 crit part I kept "just in case" but lower ilvl, i'll check when 5.2 hits if those a better than the gear I have on atm, but I think my gear is mosted suited to Frost.
    But I hate frost in pve . Except heroics.
    For the last week or so I've been balancing Crit vs my Mast/Haste on gear and I think I should be at a fairly solid point going into 5.2.

    Also, playing Frost in Mastery Arcane gear for Dungeons is fucking amazing. Them Frost Bomb shatters for a bajillion :3

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Dragon9870 View Post
    I feel like it depends on your gear. I'm just going Fire because I feel like at my gear level, it's higher than Frost.
    I am 502 ilevel and I still perform a lot better as frost. However I am only able to reach about 32% crit raid buffed (flask, food, etc.). Idk maybe I just have bad luck but every time I go fire I get close to last place on dps on single target fights. As frost I'm usually top dps. Could be that I'm just better at frost. :?

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Empath View Post
    I am 502 ilevel and I still perform a lot better as frost. However I am only able to reach about 32% crit raid buffed (flask, food, etc.). Idk maybe I just have bad luck but every time I go fire I get close to last place on dps on single target fights. As frost I'm usually top dps. Could be that I'm just better at frost. :?
    Well I just swapped to Fire from Arcane, as I told my guild tonight was my last night as Arc.

    33.91% Crit (before CM/Crit Suppression), and that's with MA, DB, and a 500 Int flask (Crystal of Insanity).

    Should be around 35% with Kings, 1000 Int Flask, and food buff.

    Also keep in mind, Fire is very RNG.

  19. #19
    SimC has posted mage T15 profiles a few hours ago (not yet part of download).

    As far as I can see no PTR spell changes have been implemented yet (e.g. Arc nerfs or Frostbolt buff), but the lists are a good starting point.

    https://code.google.com/p/simulation...cane_T15H.simc
    https://code.google.com/p/simulation...Fire_T15H.simc
    https://code.google.com/p/simulation...rost_T15H.simc

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Minimemage View Post
    SimC has posted mage T15 profiles a few hours ago (not yet part of download).

    As far as I can see no PTR spell changes have been implemented yet (e.g. Arc nerfs or Frostbolt buff), but the lists are a good starting point.

    https://code.google.com/p/simulation...cane_T15H.simc
    https://code.google.com/p/simulation...Fire_T15H.simc
    https://code.google.com/p/simulation...rost_T15H.simc
    I still have a really really hard time thinking we want only 7.8k crit rating for fire in 5.2 when there is over 15k to be had.. also gemming int.. not sure abt that. Oh well have to see I guess.

    Edit: oh nvm its the same gear for each spec, so its just not optimized or anything.
    Last edited by mrgreenthump; 2013-02-25 at 07:56 PM.

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