1. #1

    Lets talk about Valor points

    Valor Points

    Originally back in the burning crusade, you could get them from killing bosses in heroic dungeons and use them to buy gear with. Later they also dropped in raids.
    They where meant as a sort of consolation price, so that everybody got something out of doing heroics or raids.

    With wrath new kind of badges came into the game and with each tier new badges where introduced. So that you got "tokens" that allowed you only to buy consolation price gear from current raids. There where also a dayly heroic quest that would grant you 2 badges each day upon completion.

    The system stayed in untill last tier of wrath where the current justice point+ valor point system was introduced. With a cap on maximum valor.

    Back in the days of TBC and wrath imo there was a certain point that you could reach where you didn't care about current content badges anymore and where surplus badges could be used for BoE's or heirlooms. That was the point where I as a player would feel, that i could stop the grind for badges. And focus on other things. Strangely enough i will say that personally historically I first began really to try capping badges with wrath.

    With cataclysm the justice and valor system was fully implemented. And it was relatively easy to cap your valor each week. By raiding and doing the 7 heroics each week that gave you valor points.

    Now a days it is harder to cap your points each week and with the upgrade system you will practicly never reach a point where you can stop the grind for badges. Personally I think that this is a bad situation. And in my mind in the long run it leads to burnout. Sure some will say well just do not grind valor then, but if you are raiding one often wants to give your best, and to give your best you want to prepare as best you can. So you kinda have to do this chore.

    Therefor I think that it would be prudent to turn back to look at what used to work.
    -Introduce old and new ways to burn of Valor that piles up, like reintroducing BoE's or other things like special food that you can send to alts that allows them to gain more xp, or allow people to but elder charms perhaps even coins for Valor
    -increase the amount of valor gained from dungeons, raids and LFR.
    -remove the upgrade system. The system while nice as a way to upgrade your gear. Is unfortunatly a system that continually forces you to cap your valor.
    -remove coins and elder charms although I did write at my first point that maybe you schould be able to buy coins and charms for valor. The whole coin and charm system unfortunatly makes people do daylies not out of choice but because they have to do them to get their coins.

  2. #2
    Super Moderator Darsithis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dax75 View Post
    Therefor I think that it would be prudent to turn back to look at what used to work.
    -Introduce old and new ways to burn of Valor that piles up, like reintroducing BoE's or other things like special food that you can send to alts that allows them to gain more xp, or allow people to but elder charms perhaps even coins for Valor
    -increase the amount of valor gained from dungeons, raids and LFR.
    -remove the upgrade system. The system while nice as a way to upgrade your gear. Is unfortunately a system that continually forces you to cap your valor.
    -remove coins and elder charms although I did write at my first point that maybe you should be able to buy coins and charms for valor. The whole coin and charm system unfortunately makes people do dailies not out of choice but because they have to do them to get their coins.
    I don't agree at all with any of these points.

    In one breath you say "hey, let's get rid of upgrades because it forces us to grind for more valor" but then you say "introduce new and old ways to burn off Valor that piles up". I don't get it. The upgrades are supposed to be for people who have VP piling up with nothing to spend it on. Heirlooms are a finite quantity that eventually you own all of; I bought every one of them back in Wrath/Cata.

    Why get rid of coins? I barely do dailies now, leaving it up to fate to see if I get an item or not. I haven't maxed out coins on a single toon in over a month. It's only what you force yourself to do.



  3. #3
    High Overlord
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    Leave the upgrade system. It doesn't force anything. It just allows you to use excess valor later in tier to upgrade items in case of bad RNG on drops.
    100 Valor per heroic.
    The 5 valor from dailies after cap still needs to be given, OR, Change that to justice. It allows you to increase your valor cap on your own.

  4. #4
    The upgrade system was a terrible idea. It didn't inherently "force" anything on anyone, sure. But the progress minded community (PVE AND PVP) acknowledged that there is an unspoken "need" to maximize, and doing so required upgrading. It was simply one more gear treadmill to get stuck on. It was further penalizing because it meant that if you upgraded a sub-optimal item because your BIS wouldn't drop, and then later you finally GOT that BIS drop, you now had the choice of taking it and re-upgrading, which was not the good feeling that getting BIS should be/used to be.

    Furthermore

    It only served to add to the already ludicrous stat/ilvl inflation we're seeing this expanion. My personal theory on this is that Blizz is allowing the stats and system to get as FUBAR as possible so that there is less backlash if/when the stat-squish happens, but in the meantime, it's really getting out of hand.

    I wish they'd keep the upgrades out of the game from here on. Instead, I'd like to see current-tier coins purchasable with Valor (like, 250-350 per coin), so you could have an alternative to dailies for those of us that have been exalted with all factions for months. Without that gear treadmill to run on for upgrades, it'd free up a lot of the "forced to do dailies" mentality as well, since there's really no point to cap valor after a certain gear threshold.

    My .02.
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  5. #5
    Also, in regards to how hard it is to cap valor, currently in the PTR all LFRs, even the T14 raids, provide 90 VP upon completion. So once ToT LFR is completely unlocked, it will be possible to cap valor just from raiding. 9 LFRs=810 VP. Even if you are not raiding normals also, it would only take 3 or 4 dungeons to reach cap. If you are doing the dailies for coins, you will probably reach cap before even completing all the LFR runs.
    All this complaining is simply further proof that Blizzard could send each and every player a real-life wish-granting flying unicorn carrying a solid gold plate of chocolate chip cookies wrapped in hundred dollar bills, and someone would whine that Blizzard sucks for not letting them choose oatmeal raisin.
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  6. #6
    Over 9000! Glorious Leader's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darsithis View Post
    Why get rid of coins? I barely do dailies now, leaving it up to fate to see if I get an item or not. I haven't maxed out coins on a single toon in over a month. It's only what you force yourself to do.
    While this may come as a shock to you and certainly the developers leaving it up to "fate" can get quite frustrating. In fact the only thing more frustrating is having to work to earn the privilege to spend the points you already spent time earning (at a snails pace I might add) doing something you don't like doing. It's a needless double gate.
    Last edited by Glorious Leader; 2013-02-22 at 05:29 PM.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  7. #7
    imho - the real issue is that people have little self control, and don't understand that completing all content is not a requirement. Back in TBC - people did not feel this need, but mostly because there were not many people seriously raiding. In WotLK, people started getting there due to the significantly increased speed of progression. In Cata, it went nuts because doing everything took about 5 mins/week.

    Now, Blizz is trying to get people to chill out about the "I have to do everything" mentality by making there too many things to really do. Change is hard. So people are complaining.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Jijek View Post
    Leave the upgrade system. It doesn't force anything. It just allows you to use excess valor later in tier to upgrade items in case of bad RNG on drops.
    100 Valor per heroic.
    The 5 valor from dailies after cap still needs to be given, OR, Change that to justice. It allows you to increase your valor cap on your own.
    how about giving the same benefits rbg's and arenas give for conquest that make gearing up and upgrading gear a ton easier later in the patch?
    allow cleared normal raid to increase cap for the week (clear it next week inc cap agai)
    and cleared heroic to further increase cap?

    your idea is kind of good also...but being... "Forced" to do more dailies? ugh please no.
    Still I cry, tears like pouring rain, Innocent is my lurid pain.

  9. #9
    I'm not a fan of the "can't cap valor via raiding" (and I don't consider LFR to be raiding... just healer torture).

    I'm also not a fan of the upgrade system. I enjoyed reaching the plateau where I didn't have gear to buy via valor (emblems, what have you). I could stop worrying about "capping every week". Mists introduced a lot of "alternate end game content" such as pet battles, expanded archaeology, etc. However, it also introduced a really long grind every week for valor without a break point where valor was no longer as useful. If you value raiding, you are hard pressed to pvp "on the side" - another assinine gear grind or do any of the "extra" activities.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Atrahasis View Post
    While this may come as a shock to you and certainly the developers leaving it up to "fate" can get quite frustrating. In fact the only thing more frustrating is having to work to earn the privilege to spend the points you already spent time earning (at a snails pace I might add) doing something you don't like doing. It's a needless double gate.
    There are plenty of gear path options outside of dailies and valor. You might want to have a look at those.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Gurbz View Post
    Also, in regards to how hard it is to cap valor, currently in the PTR all LFRs, even the T14 raids, provide 90 VP upon completion. So once ToT LFR is completely unlocked, it will be possible to cap valor just from raiding. 9 LFRs=810 VP. Even if you are not raiding normals also, it would only take 3 or 4 dungeons to reach cap. If you are doing the dailies for coins, you will probably reach cap before even completing all the LFR runs.
    If you play every day I find that doing a daily heroic and scenario get you to the valor cap much faster than running LFRs. You queue for both at the same time, do the scenario while waiting for LFD queue and when youre done, you do a 10-15min dungeon. The time it takes to get 120 valor points is less than 30 min while it often takes 45min to a hour to complete an LFR for 90 points.

    With the next tier gear burning through heroics will be even easier.

    If you dont play every day do the scebario and dungeon when you do, use the LFRs to get a big chunk and do some dailies while you wait for the LFR queue. You can cap valor pretty fast that way but its not as efficient as daily dungeons.

  12. #12
    Just because you aren't forced to do something doesn't mean you aren't "forced" to do it. Blizzard removed separate lockouts from 10/25 because players were "forced" to raid both. They don't implement the LFR-style lockouts because they don't want tanks or healers to be "forced" to run raids constantly with different groups. They removed flask/elixir/potion stacking/spamming because they didn't want players to be "forced" to farm endlessly.
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