Prot in 5.2?

[Nalloa]

From what I currently understand, 5.2 will be going live next Tuesday so I'm confident most of the changes to warriors are now solidified (though I understand something could change overnight).

I'm usually really good about not letting whiners, the perpetually-unhappy, and doom-sayers get my emotions going and affect my enjoyment of the game, but I have to admit that the changes/nerfs to prot are making me a bit worried about our viability for PvE. I love playing a prot war and although I don't find us OP compared to other tanks (except maybe mobility), I would be willing to be a bit lower than others to keep the playstyle I love. But not if we completely fall from where we are.

I'm not irate over the Second Wind changes like many, but the nerf to Shockwave seems pretty severe, especially since we don't have a whole lot of AOE threat abilities anyway. Likewise the nerf to Shield Barrier without mention of a Shield Block buff has me biting my nails as well.

Many of the regulars on this board are pretty level headed and know more than I do about current events so I wanted to get your thoughts.

Thanks!

[Promdates]

From what I currently understand, 5.2 will be going live next Tuesday so I'm confident most of the changes to warriors are now solidified (though I understand something could change overnight).

Tuesday after next. It's March 5th.

[Pryyde]

Shield Barrier nerf is only really apparent at high Vengeance. It's just a nerf to scaling with Vengeance, because otherwise Shield Barrier could get silly in the next tier and beyond on certain fights.

All Second Wind nerfs got removed.

Shockwave nerf is dumb and not needed for Prot, I'll admit.

Prot's viability isn't going anywhere. We and DPS Warriors still provide amazing utility through Demoralising Banner and Skull Banner, and the well-deserved buff to our damage in 5.2 is fantastic. The changes to Prot are fairly minor, you probably won't notice much different in 5.2 compared to now, other than the Shockwave thing.

Also our T15 set bonuses are fantastic, so there's that.

[Nalloa]

Thank you, exactly what I wanted to hear.

[Promdates]

Prot's viability isn't going anywhere.

Is the Defensive Stance change still going through, was there anything where they mentioned more on why they're nerfing it?

[NotPrepared]

Is the Defensive Stance change still going through, was there anything where they mentioned more on why they're nerfing it?

As far as I know defensive stance isn't being changed for prot. Arms and fury, however, lose 10% dmg reduction whilst in def stance though.

[Hemptimus]

Is the Defensive Stance change still going through, was there anything where they mentioned more on why they're nerfing it?

They nerfed defensive stance by 10% for arms and fury but prot is still 25%.

[Deleted]

Shield Barrier nerf is only really apparent at high Vengeance. It's just a nerf to scaling with Vengeance, because otherwise Shield Barrier could get silly in the next tier and beyond on certain fights.

All Second Wind nerfs got removed.

Shockwave nerf is dumb and not needed for Prot, I'll admit.

Prot's viability isn't going anywhere. We and DPS Warriors still provide amazing utility through Demoralising Banner and Skull Banner, and the well-deserved buff to our damage in 5.2 is fantastic. The changes to Prot are fairly minor, you probably won't notice much different in 5.2 compared to now, other than the Shockwave thing.

Also our T15 set bonuses are fantastic, so there's that.

Prot got a nerf to damage, not a buff. Also, sbar is 10% less whether you have high vengeance or not (above 36k aprox). Nothing to worry too much, but prot is worse next patch. And it wasnt the best now, so enjoy.

[Deleted]

Warrior tanks are rock solid now and will be next tier. Banners and rallying cry are amazingly good utility and easily underestimated. Defensively it's probably the strongest tank out there even over paladins because shield barrier > word of glory and naturally proactive > reactive. The only problem i have with warrior tanks is that we miss fun niches like lower GCD, interesting secondary stats etc. But as far as a solid progression tank, warriors are just the shit.

[Pryyde]

Prot got a nerf to damage, not a buff. Also, sbar is 10% less whether you have high vengeance or not (above 36k aprox). Nothing to worry too much, but prot is worse next patch. And it wasnt the best now, so enjoy.

-The base damage of Shield Slam and Revenge has been increased by 150%, but these abilities now scale approximately 10% less efficiently with attack power
-Shield Barrier now scales approximately 10% less efficiently with attack power.

They nerfed the AP contribution of both, but buffed base damage of Shield Slam and Revenge by a LOT. Shield Barrier gets benefit from attack power AND stamina. With no vengeance, stamina is the bigger contributor by a wide margin. The nerf in both is mostly affecting high vengeance.

[Senen]

Yup, I think prot damages are more buffed than nerfed. You're not at max vengeance during a whole fight. Especially, we'll do a lot more damage than before while offtanking, which is a good news.

[Deleted]

-The base damage of Shield Slam and Revenge has been increased by 150%, but these abilities now scale approximately 10% less efficiently with attack power
-Shield Barrier now scales approximately 10% less efficiently with attack power.

They nerfed the AP contribution of both, but buffed base damage of Shield Slam and Revenge by a LOT. Shield Barrier gets benefit from attack power AND stamina. With no vengeance, stamina is the bigger contributor by a wide margin. The nerf in both is mostly affecting high vengeance.

Shield barrier is a nerf above 36k, same below. Shield slam is a nerf above ~30k. Revenge is a nerf above ~70k. The only one you can call high vengeance is revenge, and I would say normal, not high. Dont buy what gc says to what it will feel, do the numbers.

[Deleted]

Also our T15 set bonuses are fantastic, so there's that.

I must either be an idiot, or missing something but i found the T15 DPS set bonus more interesting than the Prot ones....

[Valech]

I must either be an idiot, or missing something but i found the T15 DPS set bonus more interesting than the Prot ones....

Well,
2p-Bonus: Yet, another free heal. Now we don´t just block meleedamage and absorb magicdamage, no, we also heal ourselves (aside from enraged regeneration) if something comes through. Sounds awesome.
4p-Bonus: Charge, pop demoshout, shieldslam --> I AM PURE RAGE. Having roughly 1/10 of the fight 50% higher ragegeneration is even better than the old Avatar. Sounds even more awesome.

[Deleted]

2p-Bonus: Yet, another free heal. Now we don´t just block meleedamage and absorb magicdamage, no, we also heal ourselves (aside from enraged regeneration) if something comes through. Sounds awesome.

Never like the amount the abilities healed for, plus I always liked the rage generation on Secondwind. Plus i've always been a sucker for "passive" bonusses on shit like set items & trinkets.

4p-Bonus: Charge, pop demoshout, shieldslam --> I AM PURE RAGE. Having roughly 1/10 of the fight 50% higher ragegeneration is even better than the old Avatar. Sounds even more awesome.

Wasting a cooldown like demoshout on the pull for a little extra rage doesn't sit well with me, i prefer using it when something will hit me in the face and or every minute on a fight without "spikes". 50% extra rage sure can be nice for some extra shield block/barriering even when I use it only on the spikes. The set bonus still makes me go "meh" personally.

I gues i always like having a set bonus that somewhat wow's me, can't really put my finger on it but the T15 setbonusses just do not do that for me (the T14 didn't do it for me either to be fair, although the 4p is kinda nice )

[Senen]

Never like the amount the abilities healed for, plus I always liked the rage generation on Secondwind. Plus i've always been a sucker for "passive" bonusses on shit like set items & trinkets.

In pve, Second Wind is bad. Very very very. Probably decent against Ta'yak and... and that's pretty much it, actually.
Plus, Second Wind almost never provides rage in pve environment (are you often cc'd while tanking a raid boss?)

I don't know if the 2p bonus is really strong in pve but it seems rather good. And he is awesome for soloing content. :3
The 4p bonus seems interesting.

[Deleted]

In pve, Second Wind is bad. Very very very. Probably decent against Ta'yak and... and that's pretty much it, actually.
Plus, Second Wind almost never provides rage in pve environment (are you often cc'd while tanking a raid boss?)

True, have to admit i've read past the whole... immobalize shizzle when looking at the tooltip.

Regardless though calling it very bad in PVE is not true, I can call out a few times when it saved my behind or made life for healers easier.

- Elegon when stunned and healers are beeing bad
- Bladelord when running back and forth between tornadoes
- Will of emps while dodging 10 attacks nothing else hitting you but some gas.

I'm sure i'd be able to come up with more, that said aren't they buffing (or haven't they recently buffed) victory rush? That might make it more interesting for sure.

Still doesn't change the fact the set bonusses do not dazzle me, but like i said, i might be an idiot about all this it's just how i feel about em

[Senen]

- Elegon when stunned and healers are beeing bad
- Bladelord when running back and forth between tornadoes
- Will of emps while dodging 10 attacks nothing else hitting you but some gas.

- You're not supposed to drop below 35% when the protectors explode against Elegon, so SW doesn't help, it's far more useful to use Enraged Regenartion before the explosion so that the hot helps you to reach 90% or to use it as a defensive cooldown.
- I've already said that Ta'yak was the only boss against whom Second Wind is correct.
- Because your healers let you drop under 35% during the dance ? WotE hits extremely hard, you could almost get os at the end of the dance if your healers do so. Plus, they have absolutely no reason to do it. You should never stay several seconds below 35% on WotE. Plus, an additional defensive cooldown is really useful and helps to have a better cd rotation. ER has a better usage on this fight AND it should heal more overall than SW.

[Deleted]

I wont go into usefullness or uselessness of Secondwind in current content since it was not my intend to discuss the usefull/uselessness of this talent but simply stating the setbonuses didn't seem that apealing to me

Granted the 2p actually does seem pretty strong now that i looked at it more thoroughly.

The 4p on the other hand still seems pretty weak to me, might be different when a little extra rage keeps me alive but generally speaking my rage management feels solid as it is. I'd have expected a strong 4p. Maybe i'll end up rolling 2/4 DPS and 2/4 Prot sets.

[slondon]

Think the main point of the 4 piece is that the extra rage can be dumped into block and barrier at the same time. so it basically turns demo shout into a stronger defensive CD, more rage -> more potential to mitigate. At least from my perspective.