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  1. #1

    Why is Haste>Crit??

    As destro warlock i keep seeing all top warlocks preferring haste over crit even know that very often your incineration with haste reforge goes under gcd time. Aint that reducing dps by a bit especially if bl poped together with your meta gem?

  2. #2
    The Patient Furtylol's Avatar
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    Simple answer; it's not. Roughly equal but with perfect play/RNG crit pulls ahead. Haste is more forgiving and more consistent, but starts to lose value after ~11k.

  3. #3
    It's easier to change between affliction and destruction when you're playing with haste > crit.

  4. #4
    More embers for the ember god.

  5. #5
    They're roughly equal as stated, but haste is superior for AoE (more casts), you won't go under the GCD for Incinerate if you're primarily reforging Mastery, and it's easier to swap between Affliction and Destruction since you won't need to completely change your reforge.

    It's a commodity thing, for the most.
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  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Rurts View Post
    More embers for the ember god.
    Crit and haste both affect your ember regeneration. Going all out one way or the other isn't beneficial.

    Haste>>Crit means you're often GCD capping yourself with sub-1sec incinerate casts, and you have weaker Chaos Bolts. It also means that once there are enough targets for you to spam FnB spells, Crit becomes less valuable since you're already capping embers.

    Crit>>Haste lowers the number of targets that you require to do your AoE rotation, buffs your Chaos Bolt damage and adds some more RNG to your ember regeneration. It also means that you probably won't be able to fit in 2x Chaos Bolts and 1x Incinerate during your first 4PC proc, and makes it slightly more difficult to reposition due to the longer cast time.

    @OP like the other posters have told you, it just makes it simpler to switch between Affliction and Destruction, since crit is utter rubbish for Affliction.

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  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Fony View Post
    As destro warlock i keep seeing all top warlocks preferring haste over crit even know that very often your incineration with haste reforge goes under gcd time. Aint that reducing dps by a bit especially if bl poped together with your meta gem?
    For single target they're basically the exact same stat. The key differences are what happens as you get more targets to do damage to.

    With Haste you gain a ton of AoE damage as the only limiting factor on damage output when we're not starved for embers is how many casts we put out each second.
    With Crit you gain the ability to AoE with fewer targets as each spell generates more emberbits.

  8. #8
    One, for the most part, is based off chance
    The other isnt.

  9. #9
    @strider

    Yes, I am aware. Good explanation btw.

  10. #10
    Haste is also more forgiving when you need to get casts off during procs (esp 4p procs). But yeah, if you play both Destro/Affli you're going to keep your crit low in order to not have to reforge between fights. I'm typically around 12-14k haste as Destro and I don't have problems with GCD capping Incinerate.

  11. #11
    Everyone is pretty much in agreement. I'd just like to add some numbers to clarify some of the points.


    1. Haste only starts to diminish when backlash + incinerate is less than 1 sec. This happens when you have above 14,100 haste on your gear.

    Your haste value is not relevant in terms of capping backlash + incinerate with haste procs because you will essentially always be capped during this situation. You would need less than 5% haste from gear to avoid this situation. Therefore, whether you have 14,100 haste or the immolate cut off 10,200 you will always cap backlash + incinerate during haste effects.

    2. Squeezing in chaos bolts during procs/buffs.

    At 14,100 haste (35% from gear + 5% raid buff)you are sitting right around a 2 sec CB cast time. This allows you to fit in 2 CBs during 4pc proc and 4 CBs (ideally w/o movement) during KTT proc.

    That's a substantial amount of damage.

    - - - Updated - - -

    I'm 582 ilevel and I swap KTT for BBOY along with pants to break 4pc when moving between destro and afflic.

    My destro haste ~ 12,000

    My afflic haste ~ 14,500-15,000

    With no drops/changes to mastery. I seem to do very well on meters for both specs.


    Also,

    Another point to crit vs haste debate for destro. During the pull with sustained haste caps (bloodlust) and tons of embers, crit based openers will be HUGE compared to haste based and you will see well over 3 mil CB crits. This is how I see a lot of destro locks logging around 1 mil dps on openers. A haste build has a smaller opener but better sustained, gets more use out of procs by fitting in more casts as I mentioned above.

  12. #12
    http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/...one&graph=true

    This is what crit based openers can be like, i run less than 4k haste and over 14k crit

    Make sure the graph is enabled and click kurosaki if it doesnt show for you.

    Assuming using BBoY and 25 man for more lol banners you could get closer to 3 million
    Last edited by AjayxD; 2014-09-22 at 05:50 AM.
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  13. #13
    Impressive, but also worth nothing you're unable to stay that high for very long, unlike Affliction's insane openers :P
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  14. #14
    Mm ofc but affi has 4 weeks of cheesing snapshotting left before its gone !

    But i do believe crit is much much better for destruction as it buffs your on demand damage which was always my main attraction to the spec and makes your execute a lot more powerful, my chaos bolts in that opener do 6 million when KtT procs (which it did in that specific log)
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  15. #15
    High Overlord HeaddsDead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AjayxD View Post
    http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/...one&graph=true

    This is what crit based openers can be like, i run less than 4k haste and over 14k crit

    Make sure the graph is enabled and click kurosaki if it doesnt show for you.

    Assuming using BBoY and 25 man for more lol banners you could get closer to 3 million
    i dropped 4pc along time ago for destro and im using the hwf pants off jugga with black blood and biggest hit ive gotten on CB was 5.8 mil i forget what fight i think it was SC without reforging to crit

  16. #16
    Dropping the 4 set for 2 heroic warforged pieces is almost always going to be a dps loss unless you can get 5 heroic warforged pieces tbh, also you shouldnt really use BBoY as destro =) but i guess if you are only looking for fancy numbers it works.

    1.8 milion extra damage on chaos bolt though seems like a lot for the extra int on BBoY, but congratz =)

    although if you mean inclusive of the dot it makes a LOT more sense.

    But if you look at that log that has a 4 million direct hit + 600k dot + 1.33 million multistrike, so 6 million from the chaos bolt cast depending on how you count multistrike =)
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  17. #17
    High Overlord HeaddsDead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AjayxD View Post
    http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/...one&graph=true

    This is what crit based openers can be like, i run less than 4k haste and over 14k crit

    Make sure the graph is enabled and click kurosaki if it doesnt show for you.

    Assuming using BBoY and 25 man for more lol banners you could get closer to 3 million
    i dropped 4pc along time ago for destro and im using the hwf pants off jugga with black blood and biggest hit ive gotten on CB was 5.8 mil i forget what fight i think it was SC without reforging to crit

  18. #18
    Not 100% sure on the math, but i fail to see how chaos bolt would do 1.8 million more + dot without a damage debuff on the target while not stacking crit just because of an int proc diff between totem and max stacks BBoY, while not using 4 set^^

    Edited to be nice^^
    Last edited by AjayxD; 2014-09-22 at 09:42 PM.
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  19. #19
    it's all about those big CBs man get a grip you don't need to understand his language to know that a 5800000 CB makes him the alpha lock in here so sit the fuck down

  20. #20
    Except that not stacking crit and ignoring your 4 part (otherwise known as main speccing affi) you wouldnt get to that number, BBoY even on heroic warforged doesnt provide nearly enough int on the proc to make up that sort of damage, ill believe that when i see it, also get to fuck off your high horse i edited the initial post before you made that cancerous post.

    Math / Wow player base
    Last edited by AjayxD; 2014-09-23 at 06:00 AM.
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