1. #1

    So about "Class Fantasy"

    Blizzard has been using that term quite a bit lately, I worry for my enjoyment of the class once it's 'fantasy' is realigned, seems they are using that philosophy as the reasoning behind rearranging the guts of several classes.

    Pve wise I am not too worried, there will always be a way to make the numbers you need to pull, its more so where warlocks will be in pvp after all the changes that worries me, having pvped through several expansions, when they gave us the toys in MoP (That they are now pruning away) we were so very durable, now it seems to me the more they cut, the closer we get to being significantly easier to kill.

    Unless they devise a way that Melee wouldn't be such a threat, as it stands if you have someone on you and you cant shake them, there is no way you can go blow for blow and live. I suppose what I'm saying is, Blizzard wants to make us more durable to fit our fantasy, I argue that no matter how durable we are, if we can't get away from a melee player, especially with demon hunters coming, we are dead.
    Last edited by Drakile; 2016-04-17 at 04:19 PM.

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  2. #2
    Yea, I definitely share that same concern. It seems caster are losing many of the tools needed to maintain range and melee are not losing any gap closers...and with DHs it seems they will have damn near 100% uptime.

  3. #3
    DEATH, MAYHEM, CHAOS!

    that basically sums up what warlocks embody imo.
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  4. #4
    Makes me really glad that I pretty much only ever PvE now, because this whole "Class Fantasy" business looks like the death of any sort of class balance in PvP. CC is also being reduced, so it's even going to be hard for your teammates to peel melee off of you in organized arena battles.
    Last edited by Kaeth; Tomorrow at 06:51 PM.

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  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaeth View Post
    Makes me really glad that I pretty much only ever PvE now, because this whole "Class Fantasy" business looks like the death of any sort of class balance in PvP. CC is also being reduced, so it's even going to be hard for your teammates to peel melee off of you in organized arena battles.
    Perhaps they are trying to implement the PvP talents in as a way to combat that a little, I have no idea though.

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  6. #6
    The Insane Taftvalue's Avatar
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    well they can adjust things

    like give warlocks 2 times as much stamina as other classes have if they have to lol
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  7. #7
    Just seems fair for us to get fel flame and shadowflame back tbh. Backlash wouldnt hurt either

  8. #8
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    Ah, "class fantasy". I've found myself leaning more towards PvE lately, but if I were to try PvP in Legion, I would feel concerned.

    From a destro PoV: Imp is somehow class (spec) fantasy. Destro is being more or less forced to play with Imp, which means we'll lose out on Felhunter interrupt. GoSac looks like it's less than optimal, so it's back to pet for Affli/destro. And I don't know why Imp should be the destro pet either. It's our starter demon and imps all over the place ain't got shit on other demons, honestly. And the noises they make...


    I think they want warlocks to be tanky, I'm fearing it won't work out well with melee uptime. Watched some Demon hunters play around, and they have insane mobility + burst with Meta. I believe it will be like in live when I play my spriest and some rogues comes at me with Vendetta and Death from Above - I stand no chance

  9. #9
    Class Fantasy is just the new buzzword that Blizzard use as reasoning for pruning things, and honestly, seems closer to "spec fantasy" rather than class.

    Gone are the days of a class feeling like a complete package, fire spells are partitioned off for destruction and other specs have forgotten how to use them, likewise destruction has a notable lack of shadow spells - demons still have some degree of ubiquity, depending on GOSAC really. Instead of having a complete "Warlock" package that specializes in an area, you now have 3 completely different packages with increasingly sparse overlap.

    Legion is delivering on some aspects, trying to make the class live up to it's history of being a very tanky caster and affliction dots actually being able to deliver spread damage instead of it being crippled in an idiotic attempt to stop affliction thriving in it's niche which rarely ever works despite their efforts, but it's painful how often "class fantasy" is used as a justification for axing something because it "doesn't fit".

  10. #10
    Not always, but sometimes, I feel it's not that the thing didn't fit but they didn't give us anything to use it on.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nagassh View Post
    Class Fantasy is just the new buzzword that Blizzard use as reasoning for pruning things...often "class fantasy" is used as a justification for axing something because it "doesn't fit".
    Agreed. "Class Fantasy" and "doesn't fit", spin much better than "We 'feel' warlocks have too much of this and too much of that, so wave bye-bye", and "Fuck you, we're taking it away from you, if you don't like it go fuck yourself, and if millions of people unsub we don't give a shit".

    But fear not - the class fantasy of "Unending Breath" is set in stone.
    Last edited by hiramloram; 2016-04-19 at 03:54 AM.
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  12. #12
    I think there was a PvP Talent later on in the tree, that gave us a passive shield for 20% of our max health that would slowly regenerate over time. I wonder if that will be going away with the new Soul Leech mechanic they just introduced, my guess is probably. BUT if it doesn't and it stacks with the soul leech shield I could see us becoming quite a nuisance.

    Edit: Taking a glance at the new PvP trees there seems to be missing talents currently, interestingly though there seems to be a new talent called
    Sparring: 20% chance to blunt a melee attack made against you, dealing 50% reduced damage.
    Chances are most if not all DPS casters will have this talent.
    Last edited by Drakile; 2016-04-20 at 08:10 AM.

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  13. #13
    Two new things with this new alpha build that should push locks toward more tankyness, both are PvP talents.

    Casting circle: Kind of like rune of power, but we can't be interrupted or silenced while we stand in it.

    Drain essence: Everytime drain life deals damage to an enemy, that enemy deals 10% less damage to you, which can stack 5 times.

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  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Drakile View Post
    Blizzard has been using that term quite a bit lately, I worry for my enjoyment of the class once it's 'fantasy' is realigned, seems they are using that philosophy as the reasoning behind rearranging the guts of several classes.

    Pve wise I am not too worried, there will always be a way to make the numbers you need to pull, its more so where warlocks will be in pvp after all the changes that worries me, having pvped through several expansions, when they gave us the toys in MoP (That they are now pruning away) we were so very durable, now it seems to me the more they cut, the closer we get to being significantly easier to kill.

    Unless they devise a way that Melee wouldn't be such a threat, as it stands if you have someone on you and you cant shake them, there is no way you can go blow for blow and live. I suppose what I'm saying is, Blizzard wants to make us more durable to fit our fantasy, I argue that no matter how durable we are, if we can't get away from a melee player, especially with demon hunters coming, we are dead.
    You should have 2-3 escapes in my opinion. But not able to get away every time. It pisses me the fuck off as melee when I can't get to a mage or something cuz they just blink away pew pew slow blink pew pew dead. Or locks fear, pew pew, fear, pew pew, stun, pew pew......like wtf. It's hard enough for us to stay on you anyways. If we get on you, you deserve to die. Do you know how long the CD on death grip is in fast paced pvp? which you probably have something to get away from me as soon as I cast it. and chains of ice I still have to get in range to put it on your while you're beating my face and probably cc'ing me right back. It's hard as shit for melee to get to casters right now, a lot of you deserve nerfs. The point is it should be balanced. You should have a hard time getting away from me, I should have a hard time getting to you. Who ever does the better job wins. Knock it off with this whining bullshit because it just sounds like a child saying "Mom!!! he's touching me!"
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  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Krobane View Post
    You should have 2-3 escapes in my opinion. -snip-
    To be fair DKs lack a true gap closer, beyond that though I'm not so much trying whine, as I am just expressing my worries with the current stuff going on in the Alpha, which is what the Alpha is for. Is this the best forum for it to see Blizzards eyes? Nah probly not, but I prefer this one

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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by hiramloram View Post
    Agreed. "Class Fantasy" and "doesn't fit", spin much better than "We 'feel' warlocks have too much of this and too much of that, so wave bye-bye", and "Fuck you, we're taking it away from you, if you don't like it go fuck yourself, and if millions of people unsub we don't give a shit".

    But fear not - the class fantasy of "Unending Breath" is set in stone.
    That's exactly wha I thought! Unending Breath will outlive any of our cool spells, for sure!

    (Even with every underwater zone having it's own way to make everybody breathing anyways.)

  17. #17
    The issue is that battlegrounds and arenas undermine each other in balance.

    Melee are high impact units in arenas because there's no panoply of CC being rained upon them like in battlegrounds.

    If you are melee, battlegrounds are a pretty miserable experience, and arenas are the opposite. So, they try to trim CC to help with the lockdown spam in battlegrounds but this in turn tips over the melee performance in arenas.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Taftvalue View Post
    well they can adjust things

    like give warlocks 2 times as much stamina as other classes have if they have to lol
    Warlocks have some insane PvP talents available. They certainly look like the hardest to kill
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