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  1. #1

    Is affliction really overpowered?

    A lot of my guildmates are complaining about my class's damage. They keep saying that affliction is overpowered and that it should be nerfed to the ground.
    Also, from what I've read, a lot of other people are complaining about it, so I wouldn't be surprised if we really get nerfed with 7.2.5.

    In my opinion, our damage isn't that wrong. We are a turret class, with low mobility, low target switch, a ramp up time, we can't deal with mechanic just as other ranged/melees do, because we have a lot less mobility compared to them (and the needing to stand still because of mg), and so moving results in a bigger dps loss compared to them. In short terms, I end thinking we seriously need such a high boss damage, because otherwise we would be useless.

    The only wrong aspect i can tell is that we shouldn't do so much more damage than demo wl, cause they have the same issues we have, but they're even more penalized by them. They only have a bit more burst aoe compared to us

    I seriously can't understand their pov.

    P.s: Trying to make a serious, civil discussion, without comments such as "Demon hunter/locks/mage/*insert class here* are OP!!!! Destroy that class !1!"

  2. #2
    one of the main reasons we look so powerful, in nighthold specifically, is because all the adds are granting souls and seriously extending our Deadwind uptime. if this isn't the case in toS, we will receive a very powerful indirect nerf from it. Demonology, and every other class really, doesn't have to rely on adds to buff their damage potential. For this reason alone I hope blizzard isn't heavy handed in dealing with affliction.

    I could see Reap stacks nerfed to 4 second duration though, but tbh affliction is fine for now. Someone has to be on top, and we aren't so egregiously on top that it looks anything like what shadow was in EN. Nerfing demo was wrong though. The only reason I can come up with for why they did that was because they don't want any individual trait to appear "too strong", and so they are nerfing the ones that give too much, like they did to BM, Prot pally, and to our Rend Souls.

  3. #3
    I think you have to remember that our rotation revolves around 2 things:

    Re-applying our DoTS & Draining, the fact that re-applying our DoTs is a part of our rotation makes us quite a mobile spec if played correctly (Optimal global usage) we don't suffer as much as Demo/Destro mobility wise for that reason especially when we run WiA/SE builds.

    Another problem with affliction which I personally think design wise should be something that all specializations should have is how we are not really weak on any amount of sustained targets and even if the targets aren't sustained, wrath of consumption is such an insane trait in combination with reap that utilising them together really gives us broken levels of damage.

    In my opinion they really just rushed out malefic grasp and could of come up with more interesting design decisions, MG has made affliction quite dull but extremely powerful, honestly they could nerf it by another 10% and we would still be pulling decent numbers.

    All in all yes, affliction should be nerfed. I would ask blizzard for a re-work of sorts but that is obviously out of the question at this point all I can hope for is that it changes next expansion.

  4. #4
    Never ask if a warlock spec is OP.

    Once this game meme starts all they do is nerf that spec into the ground the following expansion and buff the weakest spec from the previous expansion the next time out.

  5. #5
    No, it is good at a few select bosses and it is very, very good for thoes bosses.
    It is likely that your friends spend too much time looking at warcraftlogs without actually understanding what it is they are seeing.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by adayinthedark View Post
    I think you have to remember that our rotation revolves around 2 things:

    Re-applying our DoTS & Draining, the fact that re-applying our DoTs is a part of our rotation makes us quite a mobile spec if played correctly (Optimal global usage) we don't suffer as much as Demo/Destro mobility wise for that reason especially when we run WiA/SE builds.

    Another problem with affliction which I personally think design wise should be something that all specializations should have is how we are not really weak on any amount of sustained targets and even if the targets aren't sustained, wrath of consumption is such an insane trait in combination with reap that utilising them together really gives us broken levels of damage.

    In my opinion they really just rushed out malefic grasp and could of come up with more interesting design decisions, MG has made affliction quite dull but extremely powerful, honestly they could nerf it by another 10% and we would still be pulling decent numbers.

    All in all yes, affliction should be nerfed.
    I would ask blizzard for a re-work of sorts but that is obviously out of the question at this point all I can hope for is that it changes next expansion.

    Why should it be nerfed? Okay, it's very strong on a few fights, and middle to upper middle on other fights, in a tier that isn't currently being designed around, and for all intents purposes, is over with. Why is that too good for us? What do you see that is so unbelievably imbalanced that affliction actually needs to be nerfed over it? After how absolutely shit we have been at some points in legion, isn't it okay that we are near the top for once?

  7. #7
    I think that there are 2 main things that are inflating aff's numbers right now

    1. the number of add fights in NH; Skorp, Chronomatic Anomaly, Tichondrius, Star Augur, Krosus, High Botanist, Gul'dan. All fights where Aff in topping the parses and all fights where adds supply a decent amount of wrath of consumption stacks, and they now supply more reap soul uptime. Will these conditions which are favorable to aff continue in ToS? I dunno because I haven't looked at the fights much, but nerfing aff because the current tier is really good for aff and inflating it's numbers would be stupid imo because without these conditions (on Trilliax or Elisande for example) aff drops down to bottom of the top tier or top of the middle tier, so nerfing aff would leave them in the lower middle to bottom tier of dps without these add fights to inflate their numbers.

    2. many of the bosses have temporary damage windows that aff is very well poised to take advantage of now. Very few classes have the kind of small burst windows that can be held back like aff does. Mages can't hold onto their burst phases too long because they're cd based, so they have to ensure a certain number of uses per fight, the same goes for warriors, pallies, etc. Aff can hold 4 to 5 soul shards, save reap stacks, and coordinate when to let loose based not only on when they have wrath of consumption stacks, but when Chronomatic Anomaly has his 30% increased damage taken debuff or for Essence of Night on Tichondrius. Now this is going to be powerful with Concordance in the near future, but unless boss fights have these high damage phases in ToS then it's something that Aff can indulge in for this tier, but will no longer have to inflate their numbers in the next tier.

    The point is that I hope the devs themselves realize how they designed this spec and at least wait until the initial balancing patch of ToS to see how aff interacts with concordance and these new fights before nerfing it so as to avoid taking what is in reality a spec that is top tier, but not top overall and making it into a middle or even bottom tier spec when the fights are what's making aff op, not the spec itself.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Vynny View Post
    I think that there are 2 main things that are inflating aff's numbers right now

    1. the number of add fights in NH; Skorp, Chronomatic Anomaly, Tichondrius, Star Augur, Krosus, High Botanist, Gul'dan. All fights where Aff in topping the parses and all fights where adds supply a decent amount of wrath of consumption stacks, and they now supply more reap soul uptime. Will these conditions which are favorable to aff continue in ToS? I dunno because I haven't looked at the fights much, but nerfing aff because the current tier is really good for aff and inflating it's numbers would be stupid imo because without these conditions (on Trilliax or Elisande for example) aff drops down to bottom of the top tier or top of the middle tier, so nerfing aff would leave them in the lower middle to bottom tier of dps without these add fights to inflate their numbers.

    2. many of the bosses have temporary damage windows that aff is very well poised to take advantage of now. Very few classes have the kind of small burst windows that can be held back like aff does. Mages can't hold onto their burst phases too long because they're cd based, so they have to ensure a certain number of uses per fight, the same goes for warriors, pallies, etc. Aff can hold 4 to 5 soul shards, save reap stacks, and coordinate when to let loose based not only on when they have wrath of consumption stacks, but when Chronomatic Anomaly has his 30% increased damage taken debuff or for Essence of Night on Tichondrius. Now this is going to be powerful with Concordance in the near future, but unless boss fights have these high damage phases in ToS then it's something that Aff can indulge in for this tier, but will no longer have to inflate their numbers in the next tier.

    The point is that I hope the devs themselves realize how they designed this spec and at least wait until the initial balancing patch of ToS to see how aff interacts with concordance and these new fights before nerfing it so as to avoid taking what is in reality a spec that is top tier, but not top overall and making it into a middle or even bottom tier spec when the fights are what's making aff op, not the spec itself.
    All of this is true, but what I don't get is the self hatred among warlocks. Affliction is very competitive and all people do is cry. What other class cries when they are doing well? It feels like people want to be mid to lower tier so they can hide in their raid and be the designated summon bitch and have excuses for their performance. I find MG to be extremely boring and I wish I didn't have to play it, but I enjoy the numbers I pull and how I help out my raid. I'm not going to apologize for blizzard finally giving us a few weeks near the top.

  9. #9
    I think it's all about the "wrath on consumption " trait that makes us pull ahead for now. But I still don't think that we are ahead of the competition. Quite a few melee specs can easily compete with us.

    With that said, please don't come with links of showing Affliction parses on bosses. All those top 100+ parses should just be ignored because they get boosted by the rest of the Raid. Just like some YouTubers reign the meters because they either had insane whispers procs or barely bothered with mechanics.

    What I am worried about though is when Affliction starts filling their 3/4 traits to 4/4. Because those WILL GET DOUBLED due to reap souls. And that is possibly more of a dps increase than everyone else is getting.

  10. #10
    I have no idea why they changed (or perhaps fixed) the get souls from adds thing. For me with how strong Affy is currently it makes it very hard to justify playing another spec on progress that is so far behind (on most fights).

  11. #11
    Legendary! Huntingbear_grimbatol's Avatar
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    Like many of us saw way back in beta:
    Some specs will become broken as fuck when set bonuses, legendary items and encounters line up.
    It's not really a fault with the spec but it's all the other things that unavoidedly just has to happen when Blizzard decided to design Legion as they did. Piss poor development if you ask me...
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  12. #12
    Stood in the Fire Arainie's Avatar
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    As a priest myself I can tell you that this is the exact reasoning priests had around S2M and the 7.1 intial extremely strong state. Most people who have played the class for a long time will probably admit it's too strong and should be toned down slightly. All in all, one spec can't dominate the damage as much as affliction does right now (You're top on 6 bosses and top half on the rest) and it will get nerfed if it's anywhere near as powerful in ToS.

    Stating that "We need high damage as we're bad on other things" pretty much describes half of the specs in WoW atm and being 10-20% stronger than every other caster is not really going to work out.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Aggrophobic View Post
    No, it is good at a few select bosses and it is very, very good for thoes bosses.
    It is likely that your friends spend too much time looking at warcraftlogs without actually understanding what it is they are seeing.
    this^^


    aff is a farm spec ultimately you dont progress in it because affliction reacts extremely slow to new things in a fight. having affliction lock on krosus progress is shit cause they cant do anything to the adds for example. however affliction is EXTREMELY good at padding dmg and by doing that you buff your ST dmg by 20% cause of wrath stacks and reap uptime.

    reap is 50% dmg increase flat with 5 wrath stacks. let that sink in. 30% without any wrath stacks.
    on top of that comes all the dmg increase traits to agony, crit dmg, UA crit chance and so on.

    and in NH every single fight has regular adds to get souls and wrath stacks from.

    these combinations makes affliction very very good. but the spec itself is pretty shit because it REQUIRES good circumstances to perform, which destro, boomkins, mages, demon hunters and so on does not require.


    TLDR: looking at aff in NH is pointless cause encounters are almost designed in favour of affliction spec.

    inb4 hurrdurr aff is OP nerf nauw you are biased. well obviously any warlock player is biased but look at logs from EN or ToV where these circumstances arent around. no doubt aff is a strong spec. it bloody fucking well deserves to be since the class is supposed to be strong. not every class is build to do top dmg, hunters being best example through the years.
    Last edited by Arcrin; 2017-04-12 at 01:41 PM.

  14. #14
    Yes, other than 2 fights aff is topping the lists on damage. As someone that plays demo it is rather annoying that my niche as a immobile ST lower burst high sustained DPS was stolen by aff, who only ends up doing it better (especially considering things like the AoE they have on skorp, and how you CAN swap to priority adds with UA dumps unlike demo who would do no damage).

    I don't think they need a heavy hammer with them, but the changes to both so many things dropping souls and reap being extended instead of overwriting the buff made them too strong.
    Quote Originally Posted by Xarim View Post
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  15. #15
    Affliction is really strong right now. There are two reasons for this.

    1.Really good traits in winnowing and reap soul.
    2. Suddenly everything that dies gives extra souls

    We were balanced in 7.1.5 around the fact that not everything gave souls. When they suddenly decide to give us another legendary spot (since cloak is worthless in high soul regen fights) and artifact uptime of 90+ % of course it gets out of hand.

    Look at trilliax for example, basicly the most single target fight you can get and who is dominating? Frost mages. Yes they have good 2 target cleave but boss dmg logs tell basicly the same story. Given 7.1.5 in fight soul regen plus the 3 free souls on pull, and we would still be overpreforming but more in the line of where frost mages currently stand.


    Saying that affliction is a "farm" spec that doesnt do anything valuable is ignorant and just wrong. Affliction is really good at killing the boss faster, which matters in alot of cases. And if the big eye on gul'dan really needs to die (for example), then affliction can do more than a raid spots worth of dmg with triple ua reap drain.

  16. #16
    i disagree sjeletyven. no top guilds use aff warlocks in any of the first kills. its 95% of the time destruction for the reason i mentioned, aff reacts and adapts too slowly. aff does a shit ton of dmg correct, but the dmg is not stable and spikes all the time which in very high end can fuck your timers for transition and the fact that wrath stacks discourage focusing down single adds with UA and on top of that UA is slow dmg, a LOT of dmg but slow hence "ultimately"

    in more normal guilds where you tend to get more gear before you end up at difficult bosses where this matters this issue with aff decreases because other ppl will kill "your" add and adapt for you. so that aff can tag 5 mobs and go straight back to boss tunneling which it excels at. and NH has regular add spawns that allows for aff to be top dmg on almost all fights. The only fight that this does not happen on is trilliax but even on that fight there is adds you can put agony on and gain shards from.

    in progress when you want lots of boss dmg you bring assasination rogues or melee in general, they are not punished by movement hence their dps is almost always stable and high. if you want burst you bring demon hunters or S2M priests like they did on star augur. not 1 afflock even if afflock is very strong on star augur it wasnt good enough compared to other specs. because in early days you pushed last phase hard without killing add, creating a circumstance where aff cant benefit from wrath stacks which means aff is not an on demand dmg dealer like S2M, DHs, assa rogues and so on. fights have to be designed for aff to work and luckily NH is designed for aff to work extremely well.

    aff brings ST tunneling to the table, high movement fight dmg with writhe spec, extremely good selfhealing for ice stacks on spellblade for example and utility which destro/demo also brings. aff simply do not bring on demand here and now dmg because its a dot spec. on top of that destro is just very strong for dealing with adds cause havoc.

    the only fight in this expansion where afflock has been the best to bring for progression was skorpyron.... because aff gains HUGE buffs from killing adds + soulflame.

    again ultimately speaking as i said in my other post.

    EDIT: also the reason why you dont want tunnel specs in progression is because 5 seconds on the boss for you at the cost of 1 sec for the raid is a raidwide dmg loss even if your individual specs deal less boss damage.
    Last edited by Arcrin; 2017-04-12 at 01:43 PM.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by adayinthedark View Post
    Re-applying our DoTS & Draining, the fact that re-applying our DoTs is a part of our rotation makes us quite a mobile spec if played correctly (Optimal global usage) we don't suffer as much as Demo/Destro mobility wise for that reason especially when we run WiA/SE builds.
    That's not mobility:
    - Hunter can disengage (and have a quite good rotation while moving, especially with legendary hands that they could choose on a fight involving high mobility)
    - Mages got double blink and (especially fire) a lot of istant cast spell, + they can even cast while moving, using scorch or ice flows.
    - Sp and other lock specs are worse than affliction.
    So, no, we aren't mobile. Especially because gate has 90 sec cd, and circle is often useless, because you'd need it more often than 30 sec, or you need to go in a different place (see which classes don t find trilliax extremely annoying as an example for "high mobility classes".

    Also, while moving we lose our 70% damage buff from mg.

    *
    Quote Originally Posted by Aggrophobic View Post
    No, it is good at a few select bosses and it is very, very good for thoes bosses.
    It is likely that your friends spend too much time looking at warcraftlogs without actually understanding what it is they are seeing.
    Aside from Warcraftlogs rankings (which isn't something you can really rely on to see which spec is the strongest now, because of short 2 min farm kills which really fuck up all rankings), people often "complain" especially about myth plus, cause they say it isn't fair for a class to have 1.3 million overall, (meaning it has an aoe build) while doing also a really high damage on st bosses.
    Havoc dh, fire mages do similar damage, but "Hey, NERF LOCK PLZ")

    *
    Quote Originally Posted by Arainie View Post
    Most people who have played the class for a long time will probably admit it's too strong and should be toned down slightly.

    Stating that "We need high damage as we're bad on other things" pretty much describes half of the specs in WoW atm and being 10-20% stronger than every other caster is not really going to work out.
    1)This is exactly what i find wrong: we're topping FARM charts. This means nothing, I really don t see why this should be a good reason to nerf us.

    2) spec isn t strong only because of your damage. In a typical progression raid, there are:

    - A class with high mobility which can do really well mechanics: Hunter, Mage, DH (though they re melee, they have "a bit" of mobility)
    - A class with high burst aoe, which can quickly decimate in 2 3 global very dangerous but low health adds: Almost all melees, but especially DH, War, Pala, DK, (see as an example Guldan's eyes. That mechanic really fits this role)
    - A class with a lot of sustained damage on boss, but low damage on adds. You might think they're useless, but actually not. Adds nees to be focused, ofc, but also boss needs to die, and having these classes in your raid can really help: Affliction, Assassination
    (Note: only wrote the first classes i had in mind)

    In the end, all classes result balanced. Each class has something another hasn't, while lacking something else.

    Quote Originally Posted by bledgor View Post
    Yes, other than 2 fights aff is topping the lists on damage. As someone that plays demo it is rather annoying that my niche as a immobile ST lower burst high sustained DPS was stolen by aff, who only ends up doing it better (especially considering things like the AoE they have on skorp, and how you CAN swap to priority adds with UA dumps unlike demo who would do no damage).

    I don't think they need a heavy hammer with them, but the changes to both so many things dropping souls and reap being extended instead of overwriting the buff made them too strong.

    I agree. Demo is probably the spec which suffers most from mobility/switching targets, and i think it should be better than affliction in tunneling a st bosses.

    I still don't find any reason to nerf us, though. Maybe buffing demo a bit for st could be okay, since it does less damage compared to affliction, but i really can t see a reason for a strong nerf.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by BannedForViews View Post
    All of this is true, but what I don't get is the self hatred among warlocks.
    I'm just taking a shot in the dark here; but I think it's partly because of invested AP/legendaries in to demo/destro. Locks aren't just locks anymore. Demo locks can't just switch to affliction like they could in the past. Now specs see other specs are competition and swapping out specs looks more like "rerolling" than it ever has.

  19. #19
    So affliction is top on meters in a tier that is over from a competetive standpoint. Once again its king of cheese and rng, nerf it fast because god forbid it is useful during actual progress for ToS.

  20. #20
    Calm down people. The spec is fine.
    The balance overall is really good right now, at least for the DPS specs.
    Better than it's been for a long time, if not ever. A few butthurt guildies won't make Blizzard nerf anything.

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