1. #1

    25m H Protectors, Enrage help?

    Been working on H Protectors and having issues with enrage timer. We're getting Asani to around 40-50% before enrage so we're quite a long ways out. We've tried a couple different strats with stacks:

    5-2-2-2 1-2-2-2 1-2-2-2 1-2-2-2 1-1-1-1 grp5: 9 This was to get adds dying faster with all ranged + 1 tank getting 5 stacks right away (tank damage is insane early on)

    also

    3-3-2-2 2-2-3-3 2-2-2-2 2-2-2-2 1-1-1-1 grp5: 9

    I think the 2nd one is going to end up working out better.. but phase 1 feels really slow unless we use BL on it.

    Here's our logs of our attempts tonight, keep in mind we used multiple strats on different attempts so they may not look very consistent: http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-312e3au7qjmsalmx/

    Any help/advice would be really appreciated.

  2. #2
    We've been doing
    3 3 2 2
    3 3 2 2
    2 2 2 2
    1 1 3 3
    healers group to 9.

    Group one helped on the adds full time, two or three rangeds from group two switched to help after kaolan died.

    Kaolan dieed around the 4-4:30 mark on our first kill, regail slightly less than two minutes from enrage and asani right before enrage, about 10 seconds.
    From your logs I can see you have loads of people who actually need to step it up with the DPS. Tell them to plan their CD usage so as to use them the maximum amount possible with the maximum stacks possible.

    For example, as an assassination rogue I knew I was going to use vendetta 4 times (would come off cd just as the boss enraged) and shadowblades 3. Therefore I planned those like that (I'm usually in the 4th group getting stacks): 1 use of each at inc, 1 use of each (still coupled, so held vendetta until shadow blades came off cd) below 35% on Kaolan, 1 use of Vendetta decoupled as soon as it came off cd after my second add turn, by this time shadowblades came off cd and I just held it until right after I got to 9 stacks to burn the boss down, coupled with bloodlust, second pot and my last use of vendetta.

    Apart from that, you may want your melee to switch to the add as late as possible while still managing to kill it, that way at least in the first waves they should gain some time DPSing the boss.

    You may also want to keep your ranged group helping on the adds inside the circle corrupted waters buff when they get killed, so they can get the haste buff too.

    Finally, it seems to me that Wurx doesn't understand Survival at all (he was at 70k on try 14, which is pretty much what you'd expect from a 480 geared player without damage buffs)
    Last edited by Fluorescent0; 2013-02-22 at 07:06 AM.

  3. #3
    Looking at one of your best attempts : http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-31...?s=3421&e=3915

    It's an L2P issue. A lot of your raiders' dps is really low and a lot of other people's dps is padded. People need to start caring about the meters and stop caring, respectively of course. The low dpsers need to step it up and the padders need to stop padding.

    Beastmode padded nearly 70k dps before kaolan died... He only did 95419.1 dps on kaolan. He should have been spending his time dpsing kaolan and NOT mutli dotting to whore the meters. He did the worst amount of padding. You should talk to your raid and tell them not to pad if they want to kill the boss

    The hunter (Wurx), while on add duty his dps is insanely low. He needs to either adjust to having to kill adds and dps the boss or you should just have someone else do it because it's a detriment to the raid.

    Other than that some of your raid needs to up their dps and/or stop padding. Disregard the add duty people in this link, but
    http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-31...3666&target=30
    There is the damage on kaolan before he died. Tell the people on top of that list good job.

    Looking at a different log since something might've changed : http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-31...s=9521&e=10012

    Same thing, beastmode is padding and the same people are at the top of the meters of damage to kaolan. Wurx is doing less of what should be expected from them and overall dps is just low.


    TL ; DR most of your dps needs to step it up and stop padding and do more dps. Tell them to stop padding if they want to ever kill the boss. They can do more and they should know it. The few dps who are doing exactly what they are supposed to do (Bloodi and Tecknique namely) should be told that they did good.

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  4. #4
    Without looking at logs, I can say when we had similar problems during progress it mostly solved itself once people got comfortable with the stacking strategy. Im guessing you're having quite a few people missing their stacks (all guilds have), but once you get to 9-9-9-9-0 wit hevery single stack correctly placed you'll be more than halvway there.

    Other than that, try to make sure your melee gets to keep DPSing the active boss during their stacks and dont force them to move out and "meet" the add.

    Also I'd consider switching your stacking strategy to the quite common 3-3-3-0-0 -> 6-6-6-0-0 -> 8-8-8-0-0 -> 8-8-8-4-0 -> 9-9-9-4-0 -> 9-9-9-9-0. Its a lot less moving around since you often take 3 stacks at once, or even 5 once, compared to your strategy where you often just take one or two stacks and no more. Less moving in and out of the "stacking zone" get you more DPS since your DPSers can stand still much more, not to mention the constant awareness people need to have to often quickly be moving in/out of the stacking zone will make them lose focus on their rotations. I'd say its also easier to learn/memorize so that people can start doing the stacking kinda on auto pilot without constantly thinking about it.

    Also make sure to have warlocks with coex glyph do the slowing if you arent already. It should be increasing DPS too since adds kinda dies to dots due to how slow they are, compred to needing more focused DPS.

    A last thing that might help is to make sure to focus DPS on Regail as hes about to die and not switch to the ball in the middle. He cant die while channeling his lightning nova, and during progress we often found ourselves getting the last lightning nova at 2-5%, which made us lose a solid 10-15sec or so since we had to wait for him to finish channeling before dying. Be wary of that if you get to that point.
    Last edited by Krebosh; 2013-02-22 at 01:38 PM.

  5. #5
    I can't imagine why your warriors think its a good and valid idea to Whirlwind if you're having enrage issues. No single target increase whatsoever and just serves to pad meters. Might want to re-teach them the best way to single target a boss.


    Cheers

  6. #6
    For 25 man:
    3-3-3
    6-6-6
    8-8-8-3
    9-9-9-9-9
    Works like a charm. Minimizes movement (you literally can't push it longer before you have to re-stack your debuff, or it'll run out). Have the first group all be on adds, multidotters preferably. Do you not have any warlocks? 2 of them can literally take care of the adds by themselves (with a little backup from your moonkin/spriest).

    As for the whole "padding"-thing, usually moonkins/spriest keep telling me that keeping more sets of dots up for procs is a singletarget benefit. He might just be focusing too much on keeping the dots up, though (for the spriest).

    In any case, if kaolan dies at 15-18 stacks of debuff on the raid, you should be able to make the overall berserk. 19+ and it gets VERY unlikely, unless you have some godly execute dps.

  7. #7
    Thanks guys for all the advice. I'll be changing some things around for Monday and hopefully all goes well.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    I can't imagine why your warriors think its a good and valid idea to Whirlwind if you're having enrage issues. No single target increase whatsoever and just serves to pad meters. Might want to re-teach them the best way to single target a boss.
    For TG warrior's it's a single target damage increase to use whirlwind as a filler while using the glyph of raging wind.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Huntindawg View Post
    For TG warrior's it's a single target damage increase to use whirlwind as a filler while using the glyph of raging wind.
    Yeah I asked them about this yesterday and they said it's an increase over WS for singletarget at their gear level

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Huntindawg View Post
    For TG warrior's it's a single target damage increase to use whirlwind as a filler while using the glyph of raging wind.
    I'm sorry but aren't we analyzing the guild at hand? Did he ask what EVERY warrior SHOULD be doing? Or what their group ISN'T doing?

    Neither of their warriors are TG and neither of them have that glyph.

    Learn to do some research before you respond.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Mootykins View Post
    Yeah I asked them about this yesterday and they said it's an increase over WS for singletarget at their gear level
    They're wrong, FTW is correct. They're both SMF, they should not be touching whirlwind on protectors heroic.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Rhia View Post
    They're wrong, FTW is correct. They're both SMF, they should not be touching whirlwind on protectors heroic.
    They just want to pad. If you look at the abilities and what they do and what other abilities do to it they'd be insane to use it over wild strike.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-23 at 11:12 PM ----------

    Go to your H feng log and look at damage single target before adds.

    http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-7b...?s=3035&e=3216


    Do you see a whirlwind? Cause I don't.
    Last edited by Tehstool; 2013-02-23 at 11:12 PM.

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  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Tehstool View Post
    Beastmode padded nearly 70k dps before kaolan died... He only did 95419.1 dps on kaolan. He should have been spending his time dpsing kaolan and NOT mutli dotting to whore the meters. He did the worst amount of padding. You should talk to your raid and tell them not to pad if they want to kill the boss
    I wasn't padding- Throwing a Vampiric touch in between adds on the two other bosses gives me free INSTANT mindspike procs. Eventually as the adds come faster I don't have time to do this. But it does increase add damage (which is what I'm on full time) rather than hard casting mindspikes which is a huge when we have no or low stacks. I also use those very same INSTANT spike procs to not lose dps while moving back to the ranged group when its not our turn for add stacks.

    Also if I were honestly padding and whoring the meters as you claim my shadow word pain would be up on the other twos bosses as well. But like I said Vt on the other two bosses is solely for instant spike on adds and movement.
    Last edited by NINJAxINxAxCAN; 2013-02-24 at 12:55 AM.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by NINJAxINxAxCAN View Post
    I wasn't padding- Throwing a Vampiric touch in between adds on the two other bosses gives me free INSTANT mindspike procs. Eventually as the adds come faster I don't have time to do this. But it does increase add damage (which is what I'm on full time) rather than hard casting mindspikes which is a huge when we have no or low stacks. I also use those very same INSTANT spike procs to not lose dps while moving back to the ranged group when its not our turn for add stacks.

    Also if I were honestly padding and whoring the meters as you claim my shadow word pain would be up on the other twos bosses as well. But like I said Vt on the other two bosses is solely for instant spike on adds and movement.
    My bad bro, didn't know that you were on adds. Must've missed it when I as going through the logs.

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  15. #15
    Generally speaking I know people often way overrate how much multidotting does for single target DPS. People are really quick on pointing out "but look at all the procs i get!!!", I prefer looking at all the DPS you lose. If you do 100k DPS and spend 3sec multidotting (equal 2 globals, not counting haste), you just lost yourself 300k damage. And procs not only need to give those 300k damage back, but they also need to do 300k more damage than whatever spells you wouldve used had you not had those procs up. And they generally dont.

    As for this specific example, Im no SP so I'll not comment on that. But generally speaking, unless you have some really good and hard math backing up your multidotting theory, your go-to playstyle should be to not multidot.

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