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  1. #1

    [Q] Is it worse to waste focus going over cap or let Serpent Sting fall off?

    I'm at or near my focus cap AND serpent sting is about to fall off.

    Do I:

    1) Cast Cobra to add duration to my Serpent Sting about to fall off - knowing well that the focus gained from it will be wasted because I am at or near the focus cap.

    or

    2) Expend the focus in Arcane shots to avoid focus being wasted - consequently letting serpent sting have to fall off and reapply it.

    Please help me with this question it is perplexing me!

  2. #2
    Serpent Sting costs focus so I'm not sure why the question even arises o_O

  3. #3
    The Patient Volbian's Avatar
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    Just reapply. The question is why are you even close to capping or capped? You should have your focus around 50-60 at all times.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by gulder View Post
    Serpent Sting costs focus so I'm not sure why the question even arises o_O
    Did you even read the question? Surely you wouldn't say such a stupid thing if you had.

    If reapplying Serpent Sting is the way to go, that's how you respond, not by giving an answer that had nothing to do with his question.
    I'm not a native English speaker, and yet, I don't suck at English. The argument "English is not my mother tongue" doesn't actually give you an excuse to do so.

  5. #5
    The Patient Volbian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noxiye View Post
    Did you even read the question? Surely you wouldn't say such a stupid thing if you had.

    If reapplying Serpent Sting is the way to go, that's how you respond, not by giving an answer that had nothing to do with his question.
    It was sarcasm, clearly pointing out common sense.

  6. #6
    If this situation arises then you didn't time something appropriately. In either case doing a reapply is generally better since 1 cobra just means a few seconds whereas a reapply is another 15s which if needed you can follow up on getting more focus through cobra.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Volbian View Post
    It was sarcasm, clearly pointing out common sense.
    More puzzlement than sarcasm really.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Strategos View Post
    I'm at or near my focus cap AND serpent sting is about to fall off.
    I think that if you find yourself in this situation for whatever reason (During BW as BM perhaps), it is almost always better to reapply the Sting since it's instant (1 GCD) and lasts 15secs, instead of casting a CS which is a 1+ sec cast that only extends the duration by 4secs. You can then move back into dumping focus with Arcane/Specials and shift back into your standard rotation.

    Just my thoughts on the issues

  9. #9
    How is it not common sense to just cast a serpent sting in that scenario? Regardless if that's happening enough to where you have to make a thread about it you have a bigger problem in your rotation.

  10. #10
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    This is a place to ask questions and theorycraft. No need for being rude to someone looking for legitimate info.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Volbian View Post
    Just reapply. The question is why are you even close to capping or capped? You should have your focus around 50-60 at all times.
    for someone who rarely posts and doesn't have a link to their armory, you must be that asain guy at the number 1 spot on every log just with different alts. Cause this is a legit question as no-one plays perfectly 100% of the time.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by NomadKing View Post
    I think that if you find yourself in this situation for whatever reason (During BW as BM perhaps), it is almost always better to reapply the Sting since it's instant (1 GCD) and lasts 15secs, instead of casting a CS which is a 1+ sec cast that only extends the duration by 4secs. You can then move back into dumping focus with Arcane/Specials and shift back into your standard rotation.

    Just my thoughts on the issues

    the damage you win with 1 arcane shot and reapply SS is < cast one cobra shot and overcapp focus u dont want lose 1 GCD in BW in reaply SS is great lose in dps

    the ideal situation is never overcap focus but u need chose in fall of SS or cast cobra and overcapp focus. refresh it is what go give u more DPS.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by NomadKing View Post
    I think that if you find yourself in this situation for whatever reason (During BW as BM perhaps), it is almost always better to reapply the Sting since it's instant (1 GCD) and lasts 15secs, instead of casting a CS which is a 1+ sec cast that only extends the duration by 4secs. You can then move back into dumping focus with Arcane/Specials and shift back into your standard rotation.

    Just my thoughts on the issues

    the damage you win with 1 arcane shot and reapply SS is < cast one cobra shot and overcapp focus u dont want lose 1 GCD in BW in reaply SS is great lose in dps

    the ideal situation is never overcap focus but u need chose in fall of SS or cast cobra and overcapp focus. refresh it is what go give u more DPS.

  14. #14
    The Patient Volbian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nemesis003 View Post
    for someone who rarely posts and doesn't have a link to their armory, you must be that asain guy at the number 1 spot on every log just with different alts. Cause this is a legit question as no-one plays perfectly 100% of the time.
    What does my Armory and # of times posting have anything to do with anything? I asked a question and i gave the answer(in case people dont know).
    AND i gave the answer to the OPs question. If you wanna look me up in Armory, type in my MMOC name, and you see the location part? well that's my server.

    On a side note, I cant be #1 if Aff Locks and/or Arc mages hold the #1 spots, regardless of what spec/class i am. Just throwing it out there, IN CASE YOU DIDNT KNOW.

  15. #15
    Similar question that I never got a definitive answer to:

    During BW, with 4pc serpent sting will expire unless you use at least one cobra shot. Is it better to let SS run out and reapply SS or use a cobra shot during BW?
    The "recasting SS adds 15 seconds, cobra only adds 6 seconds" argument doesn't make any sense. Obviously you will cast additional cobras in those 6 seconds so the difference in duration has no effect.

    My guess would be that reapplying SS is more DPS as long as you will have enough focus to cast the next KC when it comes up. The problem is that after spamming arcane shots for the full duration of BW I'm pretty dry on focus, and in most cases I need the cobra to cast my next KC. I usually end up just casting a cobra near the end of my BW unless I have excess focus from heroism/rapid fire.

    Thoughts?

  16. #16
    Somebody on this forum already did the math. It is more beneficial to reapply SrS if your CS cast is above 1.7, and to CS focus capping if it's below 1.7.

  17. #17
    It's always more beneficial to reapply the sting if you're survival (due to ISS damage). BM, I'm not sure, but if someone did the math as Kirdiz claims, a link to it to confirm would be good. I usually make sure to always cast enough cobra's to not let it fall off, even during BW (the 6 second extension means I have to cobra during BW regardless).

  18. #18
    Thank you for answers.

    I literally hit 90 on my hunter last night and have never raided on one so maybe it's common sense for you who have played it often but I just learned the specifics of the BM/SV rotation last night before I made this post.

    I usually end up in this scenario either during a BM or when I know several of my CDs are coming up that will need a large focus pool to be cast back-to-back without requiring a Cobra to build focus in-between that wastes CD time (Explosive shot/Black arrow/Glaive Throw).

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Kirdiz View Post
    Somebody on this forum already did the math. It is more beneficial to reapply SrS if your CS cast is above 1.7, and to CS focus capping if it's below 1.7.
    I was the one who post that math I believe, and it was flawed.
    After that I did figure out the flaws.

    In short, you need a 1.3ish cast time on cobra for it to be better then manual refresh.(however this is subjective based on your 6 second signature ability rotation)
    There would also be a dps lose in the fact that you would not gain passive focus while casting that cobra and being capped(not sure what it comes out too, but that actually makes the cast time inaccurate, but it should still serve as a somewhat decent example.

    Or if you can benefit from the focus regen its almost always worth it, pretty much no matter the cobra cast time.(main source of SrS refresh)

    If your using ToTH then its better to use a proc on multi to reapply, but not worth waiting for the proc.

    During 4 pc BW, Your very like to need focus so weaving a cobra inbetween in a way that you can cobra after BW to reapply is better, however if for some reason you don't need the focus manual refresh.

    During BM opener it's better to manual refresh, but to make sure you can reapply with cobra when your second BW fades(witch means you may have to delay a manually refresh and leave a gap inbetween)
    It takes something like 10secs for serpent sting dmg to = an arcane, but it would have to tick for 12 to release that dmg.

    (So if I apply SS right before BW, Id have 32 secs of BW, plus about 2 secs inbetween to insure 3 KC's in my second BW, plus I'd need 3 secs to cobra for a reapply right after my second BW.
    Thats 37 secs.
    Witch would give me 2 full duration stings plus 7 secs. The 7 secs is not worth a global on the manual refresh because a global on arcane does more dmg. So I would leave a 7 second gap inbetween my first SS and reapplying my second.)
    This would be an example of how you figure you gap. It will vary depending on a few things.

    Cobra refreshing during the opener is just not good. I wont do the math here, but from the math I have done its pretty close to being not even worth using SS in the opener if you use cobra to refresh.(even if you need focus)

    Overall I recommend always manually refreshing if focus capped.(unless you have toth)

    Edit:With what Draco said 2 post above mine about the imp ss dmg.
    I didnt really consider this because i was focusing on BM.
    This definitely increases the value for surv to manually refresh even more.
    Also it might even be better to manually refresh even with toth up as surv.(Havnt tested)
    Last edited by Disfunctionz; 2013-02-23 at 11:34 AM.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Kirdiz View Post
    Somebody on this forum already did the math. It is more beneficial to reapply SrS if your CS cast is above 1.7, and to CS focus capping if it's below 1.7.
    That sounds a little strange to me. Do you know which thread that was in? Would be interesting to take a look.
    Last edited by NomadKing; 2013-02-22 at 05:47 PM.

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