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  1. #1

    Is this item inflation not getting a bit out of hand?

    So, as the title says;

    I remember a time where loot was fairly unique, there were new items on each new encounter, new stats etc etc.

    For example; Untamed Blade, Drake Talon Cleaver, Herald of Woe, Ashkandi.

    Now in MoP we have far less variety in the items we are able to get. It may not seem important, but it's kinda annoying. I mean, you can own 4 different instances of the same item in 5.2.. Does that not seem a bit lazy to you guys? LFR, Normal, Thunderforged and Heroic <.< Seems ridiculous to me at least

  2. #2
    The Patient
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    Have you even taken a glance at the new loot tables for 5.2?

    Are you saying that there are to many items or needs more?

    The LFR, Normal and HC are all the same loot in different difficulties, obviously. I dont see your problem.

    There is gonna be lots and lots of items to pick and choose from for each slot of gear in 5.2, LFR, normals and HC should not be compared besides eachother, its the same loot. Different level of difficulty.
    Last edited by Kadde111; 2013-02-22 at 09:53 AM.

  3. #3
    The Patient
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    Well, back at the times when items were still more unique, there also was only one level of dificulty for one instance. I rather have them put the additional resources in the actual raids than the gear that drops. Especially because there is transmog now.

  4. #4
    my problem is gear doesnt last at all. back in your example, i didnt replace all my MC gear in bwl, and didnt replace all my bwl gear in aq. now you replace every slot of gear in the next tier (maybe not offhand with the sha gem). id like the ilvl's of the gear to be closer to the previous tier, so you wouldnt necessarily replace all the gear.

  5. #5
    Legendary! Evil Inside's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Algorath View Post
    So, as the title says;

    I remember a time where loot was fairly unique, there were new items on each new encounter, new stats etc etc.

    For example; Untamed Blade, Drake Talon Cleaver, Herald of Woe, Ashkandi.

    Now in MoP we have far less variety in the items we are able to get. It may not seem important, but it's kinda annoying. I mean, you can own 4 different instances of the same item in 5.2.. Does that not seem a bit lazy to you guys? LFR, Normal, Thunderforged and Heroic <.< Seems ridiculous to me at least
    Yet within the new raid you have a choice of a multitude of different weapon types, go look at the loot tables.
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  6. #6
    Yeah, the days when you could ask someone what weapon they were using and it actually meant something just by name rather than ilvl were a bit more fun.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by rangore View Post
    my problem is gear doesnt last at all. back in your example, i didnt replace all my MC gear in bwl, and didnt replace all my bwl gear in aq. now you replace every slot of gear in the next tier (maybe not offhand with the sha gem). id like the ilvl's of the gear to be closer to the previous tier, so you wouldnt necessarily replace all the gear.
    Pretty much this.

    Please don't post "this" posts
    Last edited by Darsithis; 2013-02-22 at 02:57 PM.

  8. #8
    Legendary! Evil Inside's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rangore View Post
    my problem is gear doesnt last at all. back in your example, i didnt replace all my MC gear in bwl, and didnt replace all my bwl gear in aq. now you replace every slot of gear in the next tier (maybe not offhand with the sha gem). id like the ilvl's of the gear to be closer to the previous tier, so you wouldnt necessarily replace all the gear.
    If you have good rng, and they did this to prevent people from using end-game gear of one expansion to kill the first tier of the new expansion, like what happened with T6 and naxx.
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  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by rangore View Post
    my problem is gear doesnt last at all. back in your example, i didnt replace all my MC gear in bwl, and didnt replace all my bwl gear in aq. now you replace every slot of gear in the next tier (maybe not offhand with the sha gem). id like the ilvl's of the gear to be closer to the previous tier, so you wouldnt necessarily replace all the gear.
    But there are replacements there. Just because the rate of gearing up back then (must have, I'll admit to being a TBC starter) been terribly slow. By all means accuse me of wanting everything for no effort, but yeah the idea of not replacing items for over half a year doesn't really appeal that much...
    "Moral reason must learn how to make coercion its ally without running the risk of a Pyrrhic victory in which the ally exploits and negates the triumph."

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by rangore View Post
    my problem is gear doesnt last at all. back in your example, i didnt replace all my MC gear in bwl, and didnt replace all my bwl gear in aq. now you replace every slot of gear in the next tier (maybe not offhand with the sha gem). id like the ilvl's of the gear to be closer to the previous tier, so you wouldnt necessarily replace all the gear.
    I remember a lot of whining about guilds having to do Gruul every single week for the trinket.
    Only make passive aggressive posts when it doesn't make you look like a dumbass.

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  11. #11
    The Insane det's Avatar
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    Obviously it would be "less lazy" to have not only unique instances and raids for LFR, 10 mans and 25 mans, but also unique weapons, armours and loot in general in each of these versions.

    Queue shitstorm of "I feel forced to do it all". Obviously everything has pros and cons, but you could just be awesome and raid Hardmodes..and get the best version of the items....?
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    One cause is a cognitive bias called projection bias. Essentially living inside your own head your entire life makes it exceedingly difficult to understand how others do not also live your same life, think your same thoughts, and hold your same beliefs. In many cases it's quite frustrating to try to empathize and understand why you yourself may not be the center of the universe, which generally results in one 'acting out' in various ways.
    So, in short: the internet.

  12. #12
    Only 4 different instances? Try 15 between lfr, normal thunderforged, heroic thunderforged and vp upgrades you can go from ilvl 502 all the way up to 549. It's not ridiculous there are enough bossfights with enough unique items there are just 3 different difficulties that there weren't before.

  13. #13
    The item inflation this expansion definately is going out of hand.
    But it is not the only problem, it is accompanied with the certainty of guild drama's and people being unhappy for BiS becoming an unachievable dream.

    Lets start with the gear inflation.
    This tier that is about to finish the item levels went out of hand because Blizzard decided to start with MsV being half a tier lower, the elite mode in terrace and the vendor upgrades.
    Overall the lowest raiding gear was starting from ilv 476 and ending at the wooping 524 ilv for First bosses in terace elite heroic upgraded mode!
    I used the full tittle to show the insanity behind all that.

    "Elite, heroic, upgraded"!

    Its amazing to think about it. 48 item levels for a single tier!!!

    Just to give a comparison Wrath ICC, with the two sizes having different loot still had "only" 26 ilv inflation...Now the two sizes supposingly share loot, but the inflation skyrocketed to 48 ilvs!

    I dont even include Asia gear with the changes that took place there (would be 56 ilvs)

    So the one problem is items and numbers going out of hand.
    The other problem is the means to obain them.

    Valors for the upgrades till now.
    Thunderforged RnG from now on (with upgrades coming later on as well?)

    Talking about a potential of 6 item master reset within the same tier!
    Talking about huge let downs that customers can have while gear is suposingly there to reward and make people happy.

    1) You won normal mode item and next week the thunder forged drops. How would you feel if not allowed to roll since others are still with previous tier gear?
    2) You won normal item and thunderforged drops. How would your guild mate feel if you can roll for it, and then waiste normal mode gear, get thunderforged while he is still sitting on previous tier gear?
    3) You upgrade a non thunderforged item and then you get the thunderforged version. How would that make you feel?
    4) You roll a coin and you get normal version of the item. You roll again and you get the same version second time. Peachy eh?

    So Blizzard made it so bloody confusing that practically is trolling their customers with gear now, rather than rewarding them.
    This tier the gear uproar will reach a level unsurpased till now.

    It is virtually and essentially a mess, caused by the people that know what they want but they dont know how to get it without stepping at someone's toe(talking about the devs here).
    The game will pay the toll for their "ideas" once more.
    It is completely mindblowing how they came up with both upgrade and thunderforged ideas to begin with. And it is amazing how much harm their shortsightness will cause.
    Last edited by Archidamos; 2013-02-22 at 11:53 AM.

  14. #14
    There are no upgrades this tier. So it's either Heroic Weapon or Heroic Weapon Thunderforged...only 6 item level difference. Yes the gear argument and game play is backwards...Each time blizzard have tried to bring back the flavour from a previous expansion with the "old" game mechanic it has only ended in disappointing most players. It could be because what made the flavour back then was how the game mechanics were anyway, with all the quality of life changes and then reverts I'm not surprised so many players are finding MoP confusing and quitting left right and centre or still only logging to raid and then failing at normal modes...

  15. #15
    Jesus christ, people can whine about anything and everything. Who gives a S what ilvl your gear is? Its gear, you use it as a tool to kill bosses. You shouldnt care about gear, you should care about your guild's WoL's.

  16. #16
    Yep, back then, since itemization was catatrosfic, you had all kind of items with all kind of itemization, a wonderful variety. I sure enjoyed having spell damage on my AQ hunter tier. Gave my freedom of faliure.

  17. #17
    Maybe the extreme level of stat/ilvl inflation, frustrating upgrade system, poor itemization and stat allocation (2H STR users BIS set has 5100 hit...cap is 2550...REALLY?), and additional RNG of coin rolls and TF monikers are all there for a reason...

    To make the raiding public less pissed off when the item squish comes!

    /tinfoilhat
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  18. #18
    Numbers have been normalized from the start with the item inflation in mind. I'm decked out in upgraded normal mode stuff and still have to reforge a lot to get hit capped, sit at 8% crit, i.e. lots of room to improve without getting out of hand.

    What I do fear is the grind behind never getting close to BiS gear. And with thunder forged an upgrades likely to come back, that hits on all levels of pve play style.
    I tend to make my personal list of gear that I want, mainly excluding the heroic bosses I most likely won't kill, or galleon's loot. If I add thunderforged items to that list and if they actually keep me killing normals is undecided.

    Best solution for me would be making thunderforged an vendor upgrades of the same item mutually exlusive. Lucky people get it fast, everyone gets it in 5.3.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Nairobi View Post
    Maybe the extreme level of stat/ilvl inflation, frustrating upgrade system, poor itemization and stat allocation (2H STR users BIS set has 5100 hit...cap is 2550...REALLY?), and additional RNG of coin rolls and TF monikers are all there for a reason...

    To make the raiding public less pissed off when the item squish comes!

    /tinfoilhat
    I don't think that is as /tinfoilhat as it might seem. Blizzard already established that as more expansion come, the rate of item/stat inflation was going to increase. That was why they wanted to do the item squish in the first place, but there were met with enough negative opinions that they chose not to go with that option. I could totally see them inflating the stats slightly faster than they might have otherwise, so that when (more) people start complaining that the numbers are getting ridiculous, Blizzard will respond by saying something to the effect of "We wanted to fix this years ago but you guys wouldn't let us."

    Basically manipulating events so that Blizzard gets what it wanted in the first place by making the players think it was their idea to make it happen.
    All this complaining is simply further proof that Blizzard could send each and every player a real-life wish-granting flying unicorn carrying a solid gold plate of chocolate chip cookies wrapped in hundred dollar bills, and someone would whine that Blizzard sucks for not letting them choose oatmeal raisin.
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  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Gurbz View Post
    I don't think that is as /tinfoilhat as it might seem. Blizzard already established that as more expansion come, the rate of item/stat inflation was going to increase. That was why they wanted to do the item squish in the first place, but there were met with enough negative opinions that they chose not to go with that option. I could totally see them inflating the stats slightly faster than they might have otherwise, so that when (more) people start complaining that the numbers are getting ridiculous, Blizzard will respond by saying something to the effect of "We wanted to fix this years ago but you guys wouldn't let us."

    Basically manipulating events so that Blizzard gets what it wanted in the first place by making the players think it was their idea to make it happen.
    Ayup.

    This comes from years of playing Ret, where basically they just let us sit in mediocrity for long periods, or (more recently) remove iconic abilities/talents. Then, once the sea of QQ and moaning begins to reach critical mass, they refund what was taken away and label it as a "buff", and the masses rejoice, mosly unaware that we're just back to square one, not actually ahead in the game.

    It's quite easy to see them take a similar step as you said: Let it get bad enough so that even a poorly designed or originally opposed change is better than the status quo.
    Quote Originally Posted by Malthanis View Post
    We'll all be appropriately shocked/amazed when Nairobi actually gets an avatar, but until then, let's try to not derail the thread heckling him about it.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    If it was that easy don't you think we would have figured that out? (Source)
    20k and counting...

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