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  1. #41
    The only "major" inconsistancy with deathknights is where the heck the Draenei deathknights came from, since there would have been none around for the Third War, and as far as I am aware, none ever would have gone to Northrend prior to the beginning of Wrath, meaning that ALL Draenei DK's would have had to been converted during the events of Wrath.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Somnophore View Post
    DK's are veterans from the third war being rezzed by Lich King.

    Since Panda's did not participate in that war, no Panda DK.

    Goblin DK's can be used, because (maybe not in large numbers) they fought in the third war. Although they were mostly Neutral in Warcraft III.

    Worgen DK's lorewise is not ok: the scourge never reached within Gilneas, so no Dead hero's there. But since Worgens are in nature Humans, Blizzard allowed this.
    Worgen Death Knights are probably not Gilneans at all, though. It's much more sensible that they're not Gilnean.
    There are loads of Worgen throughout Azeroth, and there's a notable amount in the Grizzly Hills.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Nalnik View Post
    I don't know about Blood Elves, but there were Draenei monk NPCs back in TBC.
    Those are more "Friar Tuck" type Monks (Based on Western style usage of the Term) rather then "Kung Fu Hero" type Monks (as per the Eastern Philosophy Inspiration for Pandaria). Same thing with the "Monks" who existed in Scarlet Monastary since the days of Vanilla wow.

  4. #44
    Lorewise it makes no sense. The pandaren as a race are neutral. It might be some coding issue where a starting questline that is pretty damn important, and mandatory is actually aligned to a certain faction from the beginning based on race. The pandaren on the other hand CHOOSE which side they join. I think gameplay wise.... there shouldn't be a reason a pandaren can't be a freed member of the lich kings army. But lorewise... it really does make no sense!

  5. #45
    Pandaren Monk Ealyssa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Somnophore View Post
    Worgen DK's lorewise is not ok: the scourge never reached within Gilneas, so no Dead hero's there. But since Worgens are in nature Humans, Blizzard allowed this.
    Worgen existed before Gilneas corruption, and in fact worgen are in nature NOT humans, but night elves druid.

  6. #46
    However fee ther may have been it was still possible for them to be Dk's so they should be possible.

    However i do beleve it was because of them needing to choose a faction. Simply because blizzard have been known not to do stuff because of coding issues

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Surfd View Post
    Those are more "Friar Tuck" type Monks (Based on Western style usage of the Term) rather then "Kung Fu Hero" type Monks (as per the Eastern Philosophy Inspiration for Pandaria). Same thing with the "Monks" who existed in Scarlet Monastary since the days of Vanilla wow.
    Not entirely true.
    Well; true, but the assumption leaves something to explain.

    The idea that Eastern philosophy monks are all martial artists is flawed. Likewise, the idea that medieval Western philosophy monks did not have martial arts at all is equally flawed.
    The Scarlet monks were martial artist type monks.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Bubalus View Post
    Lich king makes deathknights , pandaland was not discovered , no panda's to make dk's for the lich king. Lich king is dead we find panda's.
    Ain't that hard to understand why they can't be DK's lore wise.


    Dilemma solved.

    Now to throw some lore in that would work... Pandaren DKs were fallen heroes whose will to help their comrades lived on even after their own death. Bolvar raises them not for servitude, but instead to fight alongside their allies once more. No DK starting zone for you, but feel free to pop in to Archerus and use the forges.

  9. #49
    Stood in the Fire Number Eighteen's Avatar
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    First off, Scarlet Crusade, Argent Dawn and the Draenei already had Monks. Simply because these mobs are outdated does not mean they are not similar to the Monks we play. Hell, Brother Korloff in Scarlet Monastery IS pretty much just like that, only a lot more aggressive.

    Secondly, there are so many holes in the story. This includes Draenei Death Knights. Heck, even Koltira Deathweaver. He is supposedly a Blood Elf, but died during the Scourge invasion of Quel'thalas - at which time they were HIGH Elves.
    Draenei obviously wouldn't have taken part in the Third War, so the only way for them to exist is because...well...the second Scourge Invasion world event.

  10. #50
    Blarghhhh! no! never! gofcuk urself!

    Infracted. Please post constructively.
    Last edited by Rivelle; 2013-02-22 at 01:27 PM.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Solonar View Post
    First off, Scarlet Crusade, Argent Dawn and the Draenei already had Monks. Simply because these mobs are outdated does not mean they are not similar to the Monks we play. Hell, Brother Korloff in Scarlet Monastery IS pretty much just like that, only a lot more aggressive.

    Secondly, there are so many holes in the story. This includes Draenei Death Knights. Heck, even Koltira Deathweaver. He is supposedly a Blood Elf, but died during the Scourge invasion of Quel'thalas - at which time they were HIGH Elves.
    Draenei obviously wouldn't have taken part in the Third War, so the only way for them to exist is because...well...the second Scourge Invasion world event.
    Sigh. Some people simply do not understand the the contexts that need to be evaluated when using a word.

    Yes. Scarlet Crusade, Argent Dawn and Draenei all had Monks. To qualify as a "Monk" all you need to be is a memeber of what would loosely be considered a Monastaic order. Not all Monks are the "Meditate / Pray / Contemplate life" types who devote their lives to pure religious seclusion. Many (in both eastern and western culture) are "martial" in nature, meaning they have no problem training themselves to defend themselves in a fight. The only major difference is that the VAST majority of Western Style monks would fight with Blunt Weapons (quarterstaff, mace etc) and and about the only form of "unarmed" combat they might have practiced would have been greco-roman style Wrestling, while the VAST majority of Eastern style monks are known for their skills in Kung-fu style body training / unarmed combat, and usually have no qualms about going for Bladed Weapons to fight with.

    Either way, Scarlet Crusade / Argent Dawn / Draenei monks are MUCH more likely to have been envisioned using a Western philosophy of "Monk" then an Eastern one, where as Pandaran Monks are ENTIRELY Eastern "Kung Fu" monks. Odd cases like Brother Karloff exist, but that is more about Blizzard playing around with new stuff then anything else (remember, Karloff was only introduced with the re-design of Scarlet Monastary that launched with Mists).

    As to Koltira, if he choses to be a Blood Elf, he is a Blood Elf. Blood Elves and High Elves are THE SAME THING racially. The only difference is in what they call themselves, and the fact that Quel'thelas Blood Elves turned to fel-energy for the time between when the Sunwell was Wrecked and when it was Fixed, while the Quel'thelas High Elves who abandoned their people did not. Being a "Blood Elf" at this point (post sunwell fix) is more of a statement of political leaning / racial solidarity with a faction within the Quel'dori race then anything else.
    Last edited by Surfd; 2013-02-22 at 01:17 PM.

  12. #52
    Herald of the Titans Geminiwolf's Avatar
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    All I can say is that Pandaren Death Knights wouldn't look right and wouldn't really make much sense to me since they're all about peace and harmony and stuff. Also wouldn't make much sense as a Pandaren serving the Lich King for the DK starting area. Did the Lich King even know about Pandaren?

    Cool picture though.
    “Ever wonder why ice cubes taste so boring? It’s cuz you make ‘em outta stupid water, you bimbo! Put some fruit juice in there and freeze it into ice cubes, and put THAT in your milk.”
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  13. #53
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    This race was mostly isolated from Azeroth for thousands of years, so it really wouldn't make sense for them to be DKs. Having a few of them to become DKs isn't going to cut it either. By that logic, they should become druids as well. It's not going to happen unless Blizzard says so.
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  14. #54
    Herald of the Titans Lord Pebbleton's Avatar
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    I can barely accept worgen and goblin being DKs, because Gilneas was sealed, but worgen at Silverpine weren't, and Kezan never met Arthas, but other goblins did.

    There were too few pandaren around in "Old Azeroth". From a player standpoint, i've never seen one, if not as a companion pet. And i explored the whole world.
    And even if Arthas found any of them, i believe he would have judged them unable to fight or something and just killed them off.

  15. #55
    The Insane Slowpoke is a Gamer's Avatar
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    Most pandaren weren't wandering Northrend in Wrath. Even though the timeline is messed up.
    "You should only install Warlords on your master hard drive. They will never be slaves." - @CM_Lore


  16. #56
    While I'm not necessarily agreeing with the OP, I remember there being feral Pandaren in Northrend in WC3:TFT in the Alliance campaign.
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  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Somnophore View Post
    DK's are veterans from the third war being rezzed by Lich King.

    Since Panda's did not participate in that war, no Panda DK.

    Goblin DK's can be used, because (maybe not in large numbers) they fought in the third war. Although they were mostly Neutral in Warcraft III.

    Worgen DK's lorewise is not ok: the scourge never reached within Gilneas, so no Dead hero's there. But since Worgens are in nature Humans, Blizzard allowed this.
    this is the most relevant response - have a cookie
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  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Banzubie View Post
    It might have also been a coding thing since they are the first neutral race and the dk starting zone may have had issues with it.
    Make it like when creating a premade. Choose your faction while creating your character and problem solved.

    The reasoning behind it is lore.

    Goblins and Worgen are already explained and Pandaren aren't possible because all Pandaren who left Pandaria lived on the wandering isle and left it only for very short timeframes to explore the world. There are not enough dead Pandaren in the lore so that Arthas could have resurrected some to become Deathknights.

    All races except the Worgen are veterans of the third war and Worgen are from Silverpine. Where and when were a Pandaren population that Arthas knew of? Even if there were Pandaren that died, Arthas had to know where they are so that he can resurrect them and he had to think that they are worth to get resurrected.

  19. #59
    You don't need to die to become a death knight. Arthas was a death knight only after he took Frostmourne and got corrupted by it .
    You don't need to die during the 3rd war to become a death knight.
    Saurfang jr. died in WoW and still became a death knight .
    Pandaren can't be death knights because the Lich King had no reach in Pandaland .
    Pandaren death knights equals Undead druids and Tauren Warlocks .
    Those "pandaren" you saw in Northrend were furbolgs .

    Goblins can be dks because goblins were used by the Horde in their campaign in Northrend mainly on zeppelins .
    Worgens can be dks because worgens were summoned into Azeroth to combat the Scourge .

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Pacioli View Post
    Why can't they be druids either? Bear into bear? Worg turns wolf into cat with wolf head? It just boils down to they don't want certain classes on certain races. I doubt it has anything to do with balance but more with they just want to spread out the races used. I doubt it is much more sinister or complex then that.
    The original Druids were Tauren and Night Elves taught by Cenarius himself. Worgen were exposed to Druidism with the Cataclysm when the Night Elves taught them to deal with their Cursed form (forget the specifics). Troll Druids is where I'm lost though, something about the Loa.

    As for Pandaren though, Monks pretty much fill that niche anyway with respect to the White Tiger, Red Crane, Black Ox and Jade Serpent. Would be silly to have another class order that does the same thing from a lore-perspective.

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