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  1. #101
    pandaren is ugly in every way possible.. dont get why any1 would play them unless as a monk =P

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  2. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by Draknalor186 View Post
    pandaren is ugly in every way possible.. dont get why any1 would play them unless as a monk =P
    I feel the same way about male trolls, blood elves, night elves, and draenei. Except as any class, not just monk. =)

    That said, I don't really care about the lore, I stopped paying attention to the lore sometime just after WotLK, and since I'm stuck being Alliance at the moment I don't really have any appealing choices for my DK. :/ If I was horde I could be Orc, Tauren, Goblin, which are all appealing races to me. Alliance side? They got nothing. Panda DKs would fix this for me. :/

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Potassiumgluconate View Post
    Worgen DKs are NOT Gilnean, and they're not even undead. They're Arugal's worgen warriors that he raised in Grizzly Hills.
    Worgen DK's are both Gilnean and undead.
    "A Special Surprise" quest will tell you about their Gilnean background. About undead part... why then did Blizzard make unique undead skins for them?

  4. #104
    Pit Lord Khaza-R's Avatar
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    For the timeline's sake, Panderan should start at lvl 85. But obviously that's rather imbalanced so this is just one of the many instances where gameplay > lore

  5. #105
    Quote Originally Posted by Banzubie View Post
    It might have also been a coding thing since they are the first neutral race and the dk starting zone may have had issues with it.
    Not a valid reason. They could have easily just put the faction selection for Pandaren DK's on the character creation screen and bypassed any coding issues.

  6. #106
    Let everything be everything to end all these discussions gg.

  7. #107
    It´s a Lore Issue. Pandaria was completely sealed off from the rest of Azeroth before the Shattering. And before the Pandaren officially started to appear in the world en masse (MoP) they were just a myth. They shouldn´t have been a myth if there were Pandaren Death Knights roaming around.

  8. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by Rawrsiex View Post
    Let everything be everything to end all these discussions gg.
    I actually agree with this. In addition, everyone who whines about lore in the official forums gets insta-banned, problem solved.

  9. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by Trollokdamus View Post
    Look at the worgen DK - he's most likely the only one of his kind in the entire Scourge. All other worgen that Scourge possessed were used differently and had nothing to do with being DK's. Also, "A Special Surprise" quest clearly shows us that a DK we all play as is a particular person with his/her own unique background.
    That's how all of the Death Knight racial quests work. Mainly because creating hundreds of thousands of back stories for each player to create a Death Knight would have been a monumental task. But they all still represent numerous possible sources for those races. There were a lot of Worgen in the Eastern Kingdoms and Northrend while Arthas was converting corpses to his cause. There were a lot of Goblins all over the place. Plenty of opportunities to be killed and raised as Death Knights.

    There were a tiny handful of Pandaren scattered across Kalimdor and Eastern Kingdoms, and you're assuming any of them even got close enough to be killed, or found, by the Scourge in order to even be known to Arthas so he could bother converting a single unknown race to his cause. Or that he would use that single Pandaren as a Death Knight and not some other purpose. You're relying on a fairly complicated chain to even get one Pandaren Death Knight created.

    Pandaren Death Knights simply don't make any sense. There were too few of them around, and no record of them even being near the Scourge while Arthas was active. Or that Arthas would have ever bothered raising them as Death Knights. There were plenty of Furbolg all over, but we don't see any Furbolg Death Knights. For all we know Arthas didn't think that funny colored corpse was anything other than a sickly Furbolg, assuming he even found a Pandaren to work with in the first place.

  10. #110
    Dreadlord MetalheroDamien's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alvanir View Post
    It´s a Lore Issue. Pandaria was completely sealed off from the rest of Azeroth before the Shattering. And before the Pandaren officially started to appear in the world en masse (MoP) they were just a myth. They shouldn´t have been a myth if there were Pandaren Death Knights roaming around.
    But there was at least one unit of pandaren running around in Lordaeron, You fight them in the secret mission in the third mission of the human campaign of WC3: The Frozen Thrones.
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  11. #111
    Pandaren Monk Otiswhitaker's Avatar
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    If Blizzard can use the lore as an excuse to do less work, you better bet your ass they'll do it.

  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alvanir View Post
    It´s a Lore Issue. Pandaria was completely sealed off from the rest of Azeroth before the Shattering. And before the Pandaren officially started to appear in the world en masse (MoP) they were just a myth. They shouldn´t have been a myth if there were Pandaren Death Knights roaming around.
    Pandaren from the Wandering Isle left the Isle long before the Tushui and Huojin joined the Alliance and Horde.

    As to why Arthas would raise one, it's generally spelled out no matter your race that you were an exemplary individual, and the starting cutscene implies with the subtlety of a brick to the head that you were one of the Argent Dawn defense force in the second Scourge Invasion who died and, due to your accomplishments drawing Arthas's eye, get raised as a death knight instead of one of the rank-and-file. Given pandaren culture and the way they look at the world, throwing in an NPC for A Special Surprise that details how the two of you left the Wandering Isle and joined the Argent Dawn wouldn't be too tough--as for faction, they could have easily cannibalized the faction choice UI they put into the beta for pandaren premades (you made your character, clicked Alliance or Horde, and got plopped into the Jade Forest).

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  13. #113
    That would still be just two Pandaren captured by the Scourge. All the other races had way more than just two examples wandering around.

  14. #114
    Fluffy Kitten Callei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rankin View Post
    That would still be just two Pandaren captured by the Scourge. All the other races had way more than just two examples wandering around.
    Sure, but those two pandaren established that they were fairly badass, which seems to have been the only entry requirement for the Acherus Death Knights (who were, it's implied, purposely undertrained and poorly-equipped so they would be just tough enough to keep Tirion busy until Arthas could make the scene; ditto for the thousands of Scourge he zerg-rushed Light's Hope with). Seeing as how Arthas never intended for the Acherus Death Knights to be a permanent fixture in his Scourge, why wouldn't he take advantage of two creatures with an exotic fighting style that would lend them an edge?

    edit: If you're trying to argue from a player population stance, that's never really effected Blizzard's choices in lore before. The Death Knight starting quests treat it like there's only one Death Knight PC of any given race, with the rest of the Ebon Blade filled out by NPCs both named and unnamed--yes, on RP servers we're free to disregard the implications of A Special Surprise for more original ideas (for better and worse as the case may be) but as far as the actual lore handles it, you're the poor sap who killed his/her best friend at their behest when their speech didn't get through to you.
    Last edited by Callei; 2013-02-23 at 04:14 AM.

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  15. #115
    Quote Originally Posted by Callei View Post
    Sure, but those two pandaren established that they were fairly badass, which seems to have been the only entry requirement for the Acherus Death Knights (who were, it's implied, purposely undertrained and poorly-equipped so they would be just tough enough to keep Tirion busy until Arthas could make the scene; ditto for the thousands of Scourge he zerg-rushed Light's Hope with). Seeing as how Arthas never intended for the Acherus Death Knights to be a permanent fixture in his Scourge, why wouldn't he take advantage of two creatures with an exotic fighting style that would lend them an edge?

    edit: If you're trying to argue from a player population stance, that's never really effected Blizzard's choices in lore before. The Death Knight starting quests treat it like there's only one Death Knight PC of any given race, with the rest of the Ebon Blade filled out by NPCs both named and unnamed--yes, on RP servers we're free to disregard the implications of A Special Surprise for more original ideas (for better and worse as the case may be) but as far as the actual lore handles it, you're the poor sap who killed his/her best friend at their behest when their speech didn't get through to you.
    Population has been the driving reason for why High Elves are still not part of the Alliance. The DK starting quests rely upon game mechanics instead of generating hundreds of thousands of possible quests so every player is unique. There has to be some give and take for a more streamlined questing experience.

    The other races were all spread across multiple continents while Arthas was active, not just two captured. Otherwise you're implying that the Archerus Death Knights numbered in the two digits, and barely at that. Not at all what Arthas had in mind. He wanted cannon fodder, which means large numbers. A tiny handful of poorly-trained and under-equipped troops wouldn't have been able to slow down Tirion or the Argent Crusade.
    Last edited by Rankin; 2013-02-23 at 04:38 AM.

  16. #116
    Fluffy Kitten Callei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rankin View Post
    Population has been the driving reason for why High Elves are still not part of the Alliance. The DK starting quests rely upon game mechanics instead of generating hundreds of thousands of possible quests so every player is unique. There has to be some give and take for a more streamlined questing experience.
    In-lore population, not player population. If there being more than one Pandaren DK PC were a concern, that concern would exist for the other races, and A Special Surprise wouldn't sit there and spell out your backstory for you.

    Even if it's an example of give and take, the fact remains that the quest lore only takes into consideration one DK PC.

    The other races were all spread across multiple continents while Arthas was active, not just two captured. Otherwise you're implying that the Archerus Death Knights numbered in the two digits, and barely at that. Not at all what Arthas had in mind. He wanted cannon fodder, which means large numbers. A tiny handful wouldn't have been able to slow down Tirion or the Argent Crusade.
    Not by a long shot. I'm implying that the lore only takes into consideration one Death Knight Player Character of any given race, with the rest of the Ebon Blade being the named and unnamed NPCs we see everywhere in Acherus, Zul'Drak, and Icecrown.

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  17. #117
    Quote Originally Posted by Callei View Post
    In-lore population, not player population. If there being more than one Pandaren DK PC were a concern, that concern would exist for the other races, and A Special Surprise wouldn't sit there and spell out your backstory for you.
    Yes, in-lore population is what matters for making the player population possible at all. Not enough of a race/class? Then it doesn't become playable. The playable population is irrelevant. It's either supported by the in-lore population, or it's not.

    Quote Originally Posted by Callei View Post
    Even if it's an example of give and take, the fact remains that the quest lore only takes into consideration one DK PC.
    It's an example of give and take because the alternative is generating a massive number of quests for that portion. It would be a huge amount of work for a single step of the quest line, so they went with a more generic quest for each race. That doesn't mean that we're all playing the exact same character, as that would defeat the purpose of even being an RPG, or the character creation process as a whole. We might as well be stamped out, every DK of each race should look exactly alike then. But they didn't do that. Death Knights were allowed customization to show that each one is a unique individual.

    Quote Originally Posted by Callei View Post
    Not by a long shot. I'm implying that the lore only takes into consideration one Death Knight Player Character of any given race, with the rest of the Ebon Blade being the named and unnamed NPCs we see everywhere in Acherus, Zul'Drak, and Icecrown.
    The lore doesn't make that distinction at all. It doesn't even make sense within the framework of this game being an RPG. We don't all play the same character. You're arguing that a single quest, that would have required a massive amount of work to function otherwise, is the only reason that we're all playing a single character. It's a tenuous link at best that is born out nowhere else in the game.

  18. #118
    Now that every race can be almost any class, I don't see why they withhold in this case. I used to like the connection between races and classes, but times have changed. I do not agree with the lore/timeline reasons for denying pandas to be DK.

  19. #119
    They're withholding it in this case because it doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Pandaren were largely isolated from the world, with a very few exceptions. They didn't become widely known until well after Arthas was defeated and Bolvar put the Scourge on lock down. The tiny handful that were out exploring were not significant enough to warrant a playable race/class combination. There were Worgen out and about, there were Goblins out and about. And both in larger numbers than the Pandaren that would have been around at the time.

  20. #120
    Panda's were in Warcraft 3 and did fight in the Third War (Mostly on the alliance side) but in a human campaign Arthas did find Pandarens so therefore he did know they existed and should be able to call them from death to his army.

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