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  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaylock View Post

    Lets face it, the only reason people think it is a "dick move" is because they feel entitled themselves. Which in of itself is a greedy and selfish.
    This was the same argument used in the old LFR by douchebags who tried to rationalize why it was OK to roll need on an item they were just going to vendor.

  2. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaylock View Post
    False. Need implies that you need the item for ANY PERSONAL USE OF YOUR CHOOSING. You can need it for gold, DE, repairs, to wear, whatever.. it doesnt matter the reason, the fact of the matter is, blizz allows you to roll need on it for anything you choose, and everyone else has the same opportunity.



    False again. Greed roll is just there as another way of saying I dont need or want this item. Its more like an "i dont care either way if this item goes in my bags or not"



    What about the guy who comes from a server where everyone need rolls on all items in 5 man dungeons and gets to a raid where people still live in the archaic era of greed rolling and he gets kicked for doing something accepted on his server?

    Lets face it, the only reason people think it is a "dick move" is because they feel entitled themselves. Which in of itself is a greedy and selfish.
    Jaylock, As far as "greed=I don't need or want this item" there is another button for that and its called 'Pass', you know the little circle with the bar through the middle?

  3. #83
    If someone in a max level instance needs on a green, I will ask if they needed it as an upgrade and inspect them. If they didn't equip it, and need on a second green item I will ask them to stop because everyone has the right to the green drops for vendor/enchant mats. If they don't stop after third time and won't respond to chat I will vote to kick.

    When I am leveling an alt...ocassionally I will run into a green item that is better (maybe just stat differences and not ilvl differences), but i will announce that I am needing it for a item upgrade and then immediately equip it. Usually I get a boss drop that replaces it in the same instance and I feel foolish for needing the green, but I stay vocal about my unsual need choices.

  4. #84
    Stood in the Fire plastkaze's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keilith View Post
    And right now Jaylock is sitting back laughing at everyone on this forum thread.
    Isn't that what he does every single time he starts a thread?
    Follows the same pattern everytime. ^_______^

    Anyway, I votekick anyone who needs on greens / lockboxes out of principle. If you "need" it for money you press the you know...GREED option. If you don't care you pass.
    Or maybe it's just the asshat era we're living in that can't understand the difference between "need" and actually need.

  5. #85
    Warchief marthsk's Avatar
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    You guys are too soft! Why just kicking when you can remind them they're a jerk everyday over whisper on all their toons?

    I mean, really, it's just common sense. After all, they deserved it, and perhaps even more. Those ninjas should consider themselves fortunate there are people as lenient as myself out there.
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  6. #86
    Scarab Lord Nivis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by plastkaze View Post
    Anyway, I votekick anyone who needs on greens / lockboxes out of principle.
    Yeah, me too. I don't say anything about it, but most of the time I click on 'vote to kick' - sometimes others just do the same, and the person gets kicked out.

    But it really depends on where it happens.
    For example, on wednesday it happened in HoF just before the first boss. Unfortunately, the person that ninjad the green item got MC'ed shortly after.
    I then accidently popped all my trinkets before dropping all my dots on him. I was terribly sorry when he died within seconds. Really! :>
    Last edited by Nivis; 2013-02-22 at 05:49 PM.

  7. #87
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    It's rude to need on a green item, unless it really is an upgrade. (No, enchanters don't have special priority.) Quit being selfish.

    With that said, I wouldn't boot someone for it... save the vote kicks for the griefers.

  8. #88
    peoples are just drama queens and get butt hurt for those kind of thing, nowday blizzard removed the main source of dramas in lfr by changing the loot system so they actively search for a reason to start a drama. I honeslty don't care about them and usually when a votekick come up for a stupid reason like that i vote no and make fun of them in chat just to fuel their rage and make the drama grow, nothing is more delicious than drama queen tears.
    How about we let the parenting of kids to... their parents? No, seriously, World of Warcraft is a videogame. Gaming it's supposed to be a fun activity (if you have that fun through challenges, social interactions, etc is completely up to you). Not some kind of "School of Hard Knocks about the Real World".

  9. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by Keilith View Post
    And right now Jaylock is sitting back laughing at everyone on this forum thread.
    Then you don't know Jaylock, he doesn't make this stuff up to get us going. Jaylock lives this lifestyle. This is the guy who admitted to pulling dps melee off a boss repeatedly with a pull ability just for shits and giggles when they get pissed at him for F'n with them. Pulling extra skippable trash into his lfr groups while they are in combat to increase the chance of a random purple loot drop, entering Cata regular dungeons with end game gear to brag about his 1337 dps numbers, and these are only the examples I can remember off the top of my head.

    In comparison Kanye West is humble.

  10. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by Nairobi View Post
    You're not supporting it any more than you are "stopping it" by VTKing the people that need.

    If you think that VTK is deterring it from happening, you're mistaken and/or delusional. There is no repercussion for needing other than hearing people bitch (which, consequently may even be the reason these "terrible cretins" are taking your precious greens in the first place). They have to re-queue, sure but thats IF the VTK is successful, and most of the time it isn't.

    I commend you for white-knighting the cause of equal greens for all, but really I hope you're not under the impression you're making an impact on the problem.
    If it only was successful once (even though it is way more often), 25 people witnessed it and therefore it might already have a tiny influence on the community.
    Also it is some kind of justice.
    So yeah, it is totally worth it.

  11. #91
    Moderator Rivelle's Avatar
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    I've seen that done many times in LFR, in fact. My UI on my main is set to roll auto-greed or disenchant for greens though so I never even notice if one popped up, let alone see a loot roll window. I've never really cared much if someone is doing it in LFR...I've never called anyone out on it, initiated vote kick or even agreed to vote kick anyone doing that in LFR.

    That being said, if they're doing it in leveling dungeons, or on blues in LFG, I definitely vote to kick. Lots of people don't care for the "I'm a greedy jerk" mentality that comes with needing on things that aren't needed.
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  12. #92
    Yes, needing on something you don't need so that you can vendor it as if you are more entitled to the gold than the 24 other people who rolled greed should be punished with the boot. Doing nothing against such behavior is tantamount to approval.

  13. #93
    As far as I am concerned the system is working as intended. If you want to take a chance on needing something like this then you risk the boot. Maybe you won't get booted, maybe you will. You know the risk when you need on it, so coming onto the forums and acting butt hurt over it really makes you look silly. If enough people in the group decide that this is a kicking offence you get kicked, if not you get to do it some more. If the item is valuable enough to you that you are willing to risk a boot then thats on you. I personally don't think a 12 gold item is worth another 45 min dps qeue and re-downing of 2 bosses I can't get loot from just to get a loot chance on the 3rd boss +90 valor.

    If you are in a bar and smash someone over the head with a pool stick and no one seems to care then such activity isn't going to get you in trouble, but if everyone jumps up and gives you a beatdown then obviosuly what you did is not acceptable to the bars occupants and you got what you had coming and the bar patrons decided to police themselves setting down a ruling that your behavior is unacceptable.

  14. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaylock View Post
    False. Need implies that you need the item for ANY PERSONAL USE OF YOUR CHOOSING. You can need it for gold, DE, repairs, to wear, whatever.. it doesnt matter the reason, the fact of the matter is, blizz allows you to roll need on it for anything you choose, and everyone else has the same opportunity.

    /agree

    Like let's say you NEED to get vote kicked out of LFR. By all means go ahead and press that button.

  15. #95
    Needing on Greens has historically been frowned upon, especially at max-level in a raid environment... Hard to believe with him queueing for LFR that it was an actual upgrade. Most people who genuinely give a shit about what others think will ask about the role beforehand and could even link what they are currently equipped with. I don't know about you folks but I'd feel a little pity to someone needing a green.

  16. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaylock View Post
    How can it be considered a "Dick move" if he had a purpose for needing on the green? Why should we judge what he is going to do with the item or not?

    The point is, who the F cares about greens these days? The people who get all bent out of shape when they see someone needing on greens are really the greedy ones themselves.

    Let me make the point clear again so those of you who are upset with him needing on that green understand.

    A green item dropped. A GREEN item dropped. Brush it off your shoulder and move on with the raid. Dont be so heavily invested in having someone kicked especially when it was only over a green item. Even if it was an epic item, you shouldnt get mad because everyone has a fair chance to roll.
    You are hardly in a position to judge someone's emotional state based on their vote kicking someone from a raid. A player rolled need in LFR on a green. This could only serve to be vendored or disenchanted as once a boe is needed on it becomes soulbound. The game mechanics allow this behaviour. The game mechanics ALSO allow other players to vote kick him based on this action.

    This isn't a case of emotion - it is simply players deciding that the person who rolled need should be kicked. End of story. We can guess that their reason was disagreement with the merits of a need roll in this case, but even that is conjecture. Jaylock once again you find yourself on the wrong side of the argument.

  17. #97
    In my opinion it is remnant of the old LFR loot system, when someone was needing on all the greens, you knew he would also need on every single item he could need on that dropped from the boss. When you saw someone needing everything like a beserker, you knew he was gonna need everything on the boss drops. Doesn't matter if he really needs it for anything, he would need it.

    People dislike others being greedy, getting everything they can get, being a hoarder. Although it looks strange kicking people over something as worthless as a green, I can understand it tbh.

  18. #98
    so we got 1 douchebag that thinks he's special enough to take items over other people.
    a) we don't kick him cause he 'only' stole a green item
    b) we kick the ninja and
    - actually take revenge,eye for an eye
    - discourage ninja behaviour,for the ninja and everyone who saw him kicked
    - let another player in the raid that deserves his place

    i don't see why anyone would not kick the ninja,I would have gladly initiated the vote if I had been there.
    maybe it's a bit harsh and a warning might do it,but this is the internet,you're not special,you're just one anonymous human in the millions roaming the net...nobody's got time to deal with your behaviour problems,get your shit together or go home.in this case your guy didn't go home,so he got kicked back to it.

  19. #99
    Legendary! Sigma's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    If it's BoE, person A can buy it on the AH.

    BoE items are fungible. They're just bags of gold with funny labels. Having player A be able to Need on the item is equivalent to player A Needing on a bag of gold so he can go buy the item on the AH.
    However they are not. A BOE item instantly looses a load of its value the moment it is equipped, with the only gold value left on it being its vendor value, or DE materials value if the player happens to be a enchanter. As for Person A buying it off the AH, this is fine if they where not in the run where it dropped. if they where in the same run as where the item dropped then it is unfair to have both the player needing it for an upgrade to their current gear and the player needing it to sell to have equal priority on the item. One of them wants it to upgrade their character, the other wants it for personal gain by selling it (potentially to the person who needs it and was in the same group).

    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    In the end, I'd prefer an auction system for items: you specify how much you're willing to pay for the drop, and the highest big wins. If you need it, you're willing to pay more. Some (or all) of the winning bid could be redistributed to the raid members.more
    so you want a GDKP system. (Which is fine, and works well for BOP items dropped in a GDKP orginised raid)
    How does this help a player with little spare gold, is it fair that a player with deep pockets should be able to buy a BOE item in a none GDKP run only to try and sell it to someone who was in the same run for a profit ? This in my opinion is a pretty low thing to do to someone who is trying to gear up and contribute a little more to the raid group involved.

    I am not saying the current "need / greed" system is fine. It clearly is not as its wide open to abuse and blizzard have recognized this with some items becoming bound to you if you need on them in a PUG group. I also know that it is only "social etiquette" that states that we should press greed if we are not going to use an item to upgrade our gear but instead sell, DE, send to an alt etc, And that there is a minority of people who do not for whatever reason feel like following the social rules that have been part of WoW since the beginning, These people are often the ones who are kick from Guilds, Raids, Dungeons for "Ninja Looting" even though that term is technically incorrect for what they are doing, I think the best way to describe it is Anti Social Behavior.

    As for the loot system as it stands, There really needs to be a lot of work done to try and cut down on this "Anti Social behavior"

    Example
    An Item drops and the loot system, is set to Need / Greed. it looks at your current gear if you have pressed need, and if it is a an upgrade you can use then your need roll is verified, if however its not an upgrade then your roll is classed as a greed and given the same priority as everyone else who has pressed greed. If you win on a need roll it is immediately bound to you.
    Last edited by Sigma; 2013-02-22 at 06:24 PM.

  20. #100
    Field Marshal Bags-'s Avatar
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    Hey guys, someone stole 10 gold. We better slow the raid down to deal with this!!!

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