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  1. #21
    Bloodsail Admiral nobodysbaby's Avatar
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    Havoc and Maleric, the numbers I have seen are not from LFR, they are from 25 normals with plenty of raid dmg.

  2. #22
    Normals look like 70-90k HPS, which is moderate HPS. Horridon has damage buff up to 150% and all the damage comes at predictable intervals with the adds. The first boss has a fairly massive atonement buff, but damage is less predictable.

    The turtle's damage comes when he channel he big aoe and when the little turtles come, so you should be able to stack up absorbs for those and spam atonement in between.

    With the new mastery/crit 10 PWS = 780k absorb and that is assuming all of it gets absorbed because you will only have 4s or so left on the first one. For the turtle for example you shouldn't really put 10 PWS down when you don't have SpS. You should put some time to set up PoM and and have borrowed time entering the damage phase.

    As people learn the encounter I would expect disc to do well there. On 10 man disc should be top healer, on 25man disc should be near the top and it should be better than holy, since those fights do not play into the strengths of holy.
    Last edited by Havoc12; 2013-02-25 at 12:12 AM.

  3. #23
    Bloodsail Admiral nobodysbaby's Avatar
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    Wait now, disc should be top healer in 10 and top healer in dmg multiplier fights and with bursty predictable dmg and fights, in low dmg fights and at the same time dish out not neglectable dps... hmmm.. I dont follow exactly why you or if you think that is justified. For example, when should you be gimped and when should holy (or other classes, say monks n druids) "win" and why? Maybe I am tired and just dont get it. 3.20 in the morning here.

    You are saying holy will shine with very heavy aoe dmg? Just trying to understand your thinking here:-)

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by nobodysbaby View Post
    Wait now, disc should be top healer in 10 and top healer in dmg multiplier fights and with bursty predictable dmg and fights, in low dmg fights and at the same time dish out not neglectable dps... hmmm.. I dont follow exactly why you or if you think that is justified. For example, when should you be gimped and when should holy (or other classes, say monks n druids) "win" and why? Maybe I am tired and just dont get it. 3.20 in the morning here.

    You are saying holy will shine with very heavy aoe dmg? Just trying to understand your thinking here:-)
    By design, if we don't shine in those scenarios we will be completely helpless with heavy consistent and/or unpredictable aoe damage (if we aren't already).

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Havoc12 View Post
    As people learn the encounter I would expect disc to do well there. On 10 man disc should be top healer, on 25man disc should be near the top and it should be better than holy, since those fights do not play into the strengths of holy.
    Wait, wait, wait.
    You said recently that "DISC NERFED TO OBLIVION AMAYGHUD CANT PLAY". You cry because Blizz nerfed aegis on PoH and fixed SS. Since then only mastery overhaul happens (which shuffle our stat priority, but dont change our hps dramatically).
    So when all players, that already tried Disc at PTR said to you that you are just a whiner, you disagreed.
    Now you try Disc yourself and say that "Disc top healer".
    At least you stop whine which is actually good. But I have to said that king`s phrase... "I told you".

  6. #26
    Would be nice for ppl to read full posts sometimes. Havoc was talking about 3 encounters that play well into discipline tools, 2 with massive dmg modifier buffs and one with predictable burst dmg. If disc doesn't shine in encounters that favor disc, it's not gonna have any chance in encounters that dont. Ofc we can hope for another heart of fear, but that's not how it should be.

    Can we keep the holy vs disc out of this topic, except if it's to note for which bosses one is better than another? We have enough topics on that already and I'd like to come here and read about what's in the title, and not another "fuck you, spec-that-is-not-mine" thing.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saphiramoon View Post
    Would be nice for ppl to read full posts sometimes. Havoc was talking about 3 encounters that play well into discipline tools, 2 with massive dmg modifier buffs and one with predictable burst dmg. If disc doesn't shine in encounters that favor disc, it's not gonna have any chance in encounters that dont. Ofc we can hope for another heart of fear, but that's not how it should be.

    Can we keep the holy vs disc out of this topic, except if it's to note for which bosses one is better than another? We have enough topics on that already and I'd like to come here and read about what's in the title, and not another "fuck you, spec-that-is-not-mine" thing.
    Hear, hear!

    So far, I guess it goes like this (according to posts in thread) for 25-man encounters:

    Jin-Rohk: Disc >> Holy
    Horridon: Disc >= Holy
    Council of Elders: No info, but from reading abilities, there's relatively constant damage, with SOME burst, depending on possessed elder.
    Tortos: Disc >= Holy
    "Shit Happens" - Well, imagine if a pegasus had the bowel-control ability of a pigeon, there'd be a lot of cases saying the following: "Cause of Death: Killed by a giant flying piece of shit...."


  8. #28
    Where did you get the idea that disc is better than holy on tortos? In fact holy is better cause the fight has massive movement due to rockfall and quake stomp which increases frequency of rockfall. On heroic even holy is way better because the fight changes massively from a healing perspective. On the first 2 fights though disc is better than holy thanks to obscene damage modifiers that boosts atonement massively and spirit shell is very useful to have for the aoe bursts.
    Isheria - Method - Twisting Nether

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Isheria View Post
    Where did you get the idea that disc is better than holy on tortos? In fact holy is better cause the fight has massive movement due to rockfall and quake stomp which increases frequency of rockfall. On heroic even holy is way better because the fight changes massively from a healing perspective. On the first 2 fights though disc is better than holy thanks to obscene damage modifiers that boosts atonement massively and spirit shell is very useful to have for the aoe bursts.
    Dude, chill . I was only posting according to what other people have posted on the thread (as I happened to mention, btw). However, you are right that probably Tortos, due to movement constrictions (now THERE's a contradiction if I ever saw one xD) wil favor Holy, as you say. Apart from that, I haven't taken HC considerations into mind seeing as how there hasn't been any feedback on that (that I've read at least); however, hard modes are another can of worms entirely, which are beyond the scope of this thread (currently, though it will probably become a central issue when testing begins).

    As Isheria mentioned, Holy with 2-piece of the new tier will probably rock this fight, but there is PLENTY of spot healing, minor raid damage, and heavy tank damage, all of which tends to favor Disc a bit more than Holy (depending on your CD rotation and healing comp, obviously). This is normal mode though, and if you say the fight in HC changes healing-wise, I'll take your word for it for the moment (since I haven't seen the hard mode changes).
    Last edited by Yetiman; 2013-02-26 at 02:06 PM.
    "Shit Happens" - Well, imagine if a pegasus had the bowel-control ability of a pigeon, there'd be a lot of cases saying the following: "Cause of Death: Killed by a giant flying piece of shit...."


  10. #30
    As suspected, on Horridon disc rules by a large margin compared to the other healers because Atonement is just too good.
    You are effectively a full healer (top healer too) and half a dps on that fight in normal mode.

  11. #31
    [/COLOR]
    Quote Originally Posted by Isheria View Post
    Where did you get the idea that disc is better than holy on tortos? In fact holy is better cause the fight has massive movement due to rockfall and quake stomp which increases frequency of rockfall. On heroic even holy is way better because the fight changes massively from a healing perspective. On the first 2 fights though disc is better than holy thanks to obscene damage modifiers that boosts atonement massively and spirit shell is very useful to have for the aoe bursts.
    Why do you think that disc does not have mobility. Every high HPS spell we have now is either super fast or instant or can be cast on the move. PWS+instants is better HPS than PoH spam and you can use borrowed time to bring bindng heals down to 1.2s. Penance, PoM, cascade/star, solace, PWS are all instants and can be chained with borrowed time. I saw only part of the tortos 10 encounter, but tbh there was nothing about the movement that was troubling for disc in the slightest. You time spirit shell as much as possible with the stop thingy. Put a PWS up before starting spirit shell and you ignore the first rockfall and move if you get a second one while you chanelling spirit shell. Thanks to borrowed time you still get 6 casts off or 7 with PI if you have 5% haste from gear (and you should). Spam PWS instants while moving away from 8s accelerated rockfalls, then heal as best you can during turtles, and penance/BH/PoH the ticks of the breath thingy that go through. I don't see what part of the movement in this fight troubles disc at all. Unless someone is trying to cast a lot of PoH, but really they shouldn't. PoH is a filler for aoe healing now. You use it when nothing else is usable.

    I haven't done the hc mode, but reading it seems that it is going to be a fairly massive problem from disc unless the crystal thingy works off absorbs too.

    Wait, wait, wait.
    You said recently that "DISC NERFED TO OBLIVION AMAYGHUD CANT PLAY". You cry because Blizz nerfed aegis on PoH and fixed SS. Since then only mastery overhaul happens (which shuffle our stat priority, but dont change our hps dramatically).
    So when all players, that already tried Disc at PTR said to you that you are just a whiner, you disagreed.
    Now you try Disc yourself and say that "Disc top healer".
    At least you stop whine which is actually good. But I have to said that king`s phrase... "I told you".
    Told me what? That I was right. That disc is ok rather than at the top on niche encounters and will be at the bottom everytime there is a high HPS fight? Already you have people saying that they do better with holy on tortos a fight in which the old discipline would dominate vizier style. I said it in every post. Disc will be ok in niche fights and broken for everything else on 25man. On 10man it will still be ok, because of being a decent DPSer, but that has its own issues.

    I think the jury is still out on Horridon. I only saw the fight on LFR, but I was able to pull bigger numbers with holy than with disc despite the buff. LFR being LFR this does not mean much, but I think perhaps it is a question of everyone getting to grips with the mechanics and damage pattern. I really think other classes than priests are going to rule horridon.
    Last edited by Havoc12; 2013-02-27 at 01:27 AM.

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