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  1. #141
    Pit Lord SourceOfInfection's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by babo7000 View Post
    The Horde after the siege will be crippled, and at the mercy of the Alliance (or so it seems).
    I can guarantee you that canon will leave the Alliance in no position to make demands from the Horde. Don't forget, Siege of Orgrimmar is not an Alliance-only raid.
    Quote Originally Posted by Daralii View Post
    Her head is so far up her own asshole that I'm surprised she's not on the list of people she's fucked.

  2. #142
    Quote Originally Posted by Scummer View Post
    Shouldn't the fact that they couldn't control Garrosh have been evidence to Thrall that picking Garrosh was a bad idea?


    I'm not sure why some people are going on about Shaman "far sight". The fact is that at the end of the day that Thrall either knew Garrosh wouldn't be ideal or was passed the idiot ball. After all that Garrosh had pulled prior to Cata and the fact Vol'jin and Cairne had objected kinda goes to show that if Thrall seriously did not know then he was an idiot.
    Thrall had to pick someone whom the Orcs would follow. Thrall believed Garrosh was "a perfect figurehead" believing "Eitrigg would be there to temper Garrosh, as would Cairne."

    "There wouldn’t be a lot that Garrosh could do, really, to harm the Horde, and—Thrall had to admit—there was much Garrosh could do to inspire it."

    "Garrosh would remind them that they were proud and fierce and unconquerable, and the Horde would cheer and be content until Thrall returned with the real answers to the problems that besieged them." (The Shattering)
    Last edited by Aquamonkey; 2013-02-24 at 09:07 AM.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    I'm determined to someday make Med'an awesome. (MickyNeilson)
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    ´So.. sorry to bring this up but..you know that .."thing" (Med'an).. is that "thing" cannon still?
    ...as much have some have wished otherwise, yes. (Loreology)

  3. #143
    I am Murloc! Scummer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    Thrall had to pick someone whom the Orcs would follow. Thrall believed Garrosh was "a perfect figurehead" believing "Eitrigg would be there to temper Garrosh, as would Cairne."

    "There wouldn’t be a lot that Garrosh could do, really, to harm the Horde, and—Thrall had to admit—there was much Garrosh could do to inspire it."

    "Garrosh would remind them that they were proud and fierce and unconquerable, and the Horde would cheer and be
    content until Thrall returned with the real answers to the problems that besieged them." (The Shattering)
    Then it's clear Thrall is holding the idiot ball.
    Why they wrote him to make such an idiotic choice is beyond me. He has seen first hand what Garrosh was like at diplomacy. He had heard reports of what he was like during Northrend. Then had Vol'jin and Cairne warning him. But he did it anyway. This goes beyond being too trusty or having a poor judge of character.
    Last edited by Scummer; 2013-02-24 at 09:17 AM.

  4. #144
    Quote Originally Posted by Scummer View Post
    Then it's clear Thrall is holding the idiot ball.
    Why they wrote him to make such an idiotic choice is beyond me. He has seen first hand what Garrosh was like at diplomacy. He had heard reports of what he was like during Northrend. Then had Vol'jin and Cairne warning him. But he did it anyway. This goes beyond being too trusty of having a poor judge of character.
    because peoples bitch about "war" in warcraft name, appointing Vol'jin or Cairne was basically thrall 2.0 a wise and honorable horde that alot of whiners hated; thrall appointed the one that blizzard decided was good for reigniting the horde vs alliance conflict, i personally don't know who gonna be warchief after mop but be sure that alot of peoples start bitching about horde and alliance holding hands.
    How about we let the parenting of kids to... their parents? No, seriously, World of Warcraft is a videogame. Gaming it's supposed to be a fun activity (if you have that fun through challenges, social interactions, etc is completely up to you). Not some kind of "School of Hard Knocks about the Real World".

  5. #145
    Quote Originally Posted by Scummer View Post
    Then it's clear Thrall is holding the idiot ball.
    Why they wrote him to make such an idiotic choice is beyond me. He has seen first hand what Garrosh was like at diplomacy. He had heard reports of what he was like during Northrend. Then had Vol'jin and Cairne warning him. But he did it anyway. This goes beyond being too trusty or having a poor judge of character.
    Damn PDFs, I didn't remove one of the line breaks.

    The book, The Shattering, specifically says figurehead. Thrall never actually makes Garrosh Warchief.

    The younger orc’s eyes widened, this time in excitement. “You—you are making me warchief?”
    “No. But I am instructing you to lead the Horde on my behalf until I return.”


    Did Thrall come back later and make Garrosh Warchief or did Garrosh just usurp complete control?
    Last edited by Aquamonkey; 2013-02-24 at 10:09 AM.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    I'm determined to someday make Med'an awesome. (MickyNeilson)
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    ´So.. sorry to bring this up but..you know that .."thing" (Med'an).. is that "thing" cannon still?
    ...as much have some have wished otherwise, yes. (Loreology)

  6. #146
    Lordy that avatar. I like yaoi and all, but inter-species is creepy.

    On topic, I fully expect Thrall to come back and rescue the horde from Garrosh, ignoring the super good idea of putting him in charge in the first place. No way would they bench/exile/kill off the creator's pet. I expect him to be warchief again too. I know they're kinda hinting at the belf guy to make a run for next warchief, but pig will fly when the logical choice happens. We dont want no stinkin elf for warchief, ah boo boo boo.

  7. #147
    First off, let me say that I am, solidly, in the camp of the Alliance. I have Horde toons that I like, even love, to play, but when it comes down to it, the Alliance is home to me. Its where I started.

    Now that I got that out of the way, there is absolutely zero basis for any repercussions coming back on Thrall because of the actions of Garrosh. Did Thrall promote him to Warchief? Yes. Was it a bad decision? Undoubtedly. However, that does not mean that it is in any way Thrall's fault. Garrosh is his own, independent, sovereign person. Thrall isn't sitting in the shadows manipulating him (boy, wouldn't THAT be a twist?), Thrall isn't even an adviser. He just wants to raise his family and not be Warchief. I can't really blame the guy; for an orc as young as he is, he's done a lot of stuff.

    That being said, if Garrosh was a good Warchief, if he somehow managed to cure the thirst and hunger of the people of Durotar without resorting to violence, if he had bridged the gaps between the Horde and the Alliance, if he had worked together with the Alliance as we did in Northrend against the Sha, the Mogu, and the Zandalari, if he had not ordered that dozens of fronts and incursions be launched, and instead sought and found different methods of solving problems other than violence, would we be praising Thrall?

    No. That would be stupid. We'd say, perhaps, that Thrall has a good judge of character, that Garrosh despite his faults was the right man for the job. However, most of the praise and glory would fall on the Son of Grom, not the Son of Durotan. But instead, because Garrosh is making all these bad decisions, it suddenly falls back on Thrall? I mean hell, as long as we're at it, why not blame Medivh, too? He's the one who inspired Thrall to go forth and be awesome, is he not?

    No. That would be stupid.

    This notion that it is somehow Thrall's fault is just disheartening. I can imagine losing faith in Thrall after this, but punishment? Exile? Too far. This, if nothing else, only shows that Thrall is not as infallible as many make him out to be. Hopefully the next Warchief, whoever it is, will make better decisions about who gets promotions.
    Ultraxion yells: I am the beginning of buttonclickers...the button which blots out my wipe mechanic...the click which tolls my doom...
    Ultraxion yells: For this moment ALONE was I made. Look upon your button, mortals, and click!

  8. #148
    I am Murloc! Scummer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    Did Thrall come back later and make Garrosh Warchief or did Garrosh just usurp complete control?
    Whatever the case it's "official" and given the attitude of the other leaders it seems like wasn't a matter of unlawful succession or what have you. It's the same case as Varian being High King at the start of MoP.

  9. #149
    The Insane Trassk's Avatar
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    I realized something, after finding the posts on the official wow website, that the original post on there, 95% of the posters on it where alliance. Only a couple of posters were horde, and a only a couple of alliance posters had an unbias point to make to the thread.

    this is just as likely the case here. Hardcore alliance fanboys who had a bug up there backside about Thrall, an orc, being a hero. Its so childish, its like debating politics with a seven year old.

  10. #150
    Quote Originally Posted by Shedeo View Post
    First off, let me say that I am, solidly, in the camp of the Alliance. I have Horde toons that I like, even love, to play, but when it comes down to it, the Alliance is home to me. Its where I started.

    Now that I got that out of the way, there is absolutely zero basis for any repercussions coming back on Thrall because of the actions of Garrosh. Did Thrall promote him to Warchief? Yes. Was it a bad decision? Undoubtedly. However, that does not mean that it is in any way Thrall's fault. Garrosh is his own, independent, sovereign person. Thrall isn't sitting in the shadows manipulating him (boy, wouldn't THAT be a twist?), Thrall isn't even an adviser. He just wants to raise his family and not be Warchief. I can't really blame the guy; for an orc as young as he is, he's done a lot of stuff.

    That being said, if Garrosh was a good Warchief, if he somehow managed to cure the thirst and hunger of the people of Durotar without resorting to violence, if he had bridged the gaps between the Horde and the Alliance, if he had worked together with the Alliance as we did in Northrend against the Sha, the Mogu, and the Zandalari, if he had not ordered that dozens of fronts and incursions be launched, and instead sought and found different methods of solving problems other than violence, would we be praising Thrall?

    No. That would be stupid. We'd say, perhaps, that Thrall has a good judge of character, that Garrosh despite his faults was the right man for the job. However, most of the praise and glory would fall on the Son of Grom, not the Son of Durotan. But instead, because Garrosh is making all these bad decisions, it suddenly falls back on Thrall? I mean hell, as long as we're at it, why not blame Medivh, too? He's the one who inspired Thrall to go forth and be awesome, is he not?

    No. That would be stupid.

    This notion that it is somehow Thrall's fault is just disheartening. I can imagine losing faith in Thrall after this, but punishment? Exile? Too far. This, if nothing else, only shows that Thrall is not as infallible as many make him out to be. Hopefully the next Warchief, whoever it is, will make better decisions about who gets promotions.
    If Garrosh had had some potential to be a good leader, than yeah. But the only moment whether anything close to good diplomatic skills was immediately after Thrall promoted him and he pondered what to do about the Ashenvale event. That's it. He showed on no other occasion that he has the skills of a leader.

    Thrall didn't make a wise choice because he was choosing the most popular candidate. I do not see how Thrall couldv'e possibly not seen this coming, after knowing the past of Garrosh and Grom. He was disillusional, hoping that somehow Garrosh would improve and be better, though he hadnto have known deep down it would never happen. And this disillusion led to him promoting a man who immediately started war on multiple fronts, costing countless H and A lives. And this guy should go unpunished cause, 'whelp, you werent the one opening war!'

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-24 at 02:02 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    I realized something, after finding the posts on the official wow website, that the original post on there, 95% of the posters on it where alliance. Only a couple of posters were horde, and a only a couple of alliance posters had an unbias point to make to the thread.

    this is just as likely the case here. Hardcore alliance fanboys who had a bug up there backside about Thrall, an orc, being a hero. Its so childish, its like debating politics with a seven year old.
    Na i never minded the whole Green Jesus plot.

    I just wont like it if Thrall gets no punishment, not even a mention, of the stupidity he displayed in the Shattering. I never hated Thrall, but after ToW, i despised him. ('Your city got destroyed? That sucks. I cant do anything to help you, but ill help my people if you retaliate'.)

    Thats the guy Allly were forced to quest with and help, why shouldnt we hate him?

  11. #151
    Elemental Lord Combatbulter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by babo7000 View Post
    Na i never minded the whole Green Jesus plot.

    I just wont like it if Thrall gets no punishment, not even a mention, of the stupidity he displayed in the Shattering. I never hated Thrall, but after ToW, i despised him. ('Your city got destroyed? That sucks. I cant do anything to help you, but ill help my people if you retaliate'.)

    Thats the guy Allly were forced to quest with and help, why shouldnt we hate him?
    Why should it matter though? Punishment in wow is entirely irrelevant even if he gets exiled what will change? Nothing, Thrall will still be around to interfere if he deems it necessary. Should every horde player hate Jaina for her little purge? People cry for punishment far too easy nowadays, leaders make tough choices and sometimes those lead to very bad results.
    He who sees his own doom can better avoid its path. He who sees the doom of others can deliver it.

  12. #152
    well hope they bring thrall back as warchief for 5.4

    better run for it Garrosh they are at your front door....

    How about we let the parenting of kids to... their parents? No, seriously, World of Warcraft is a videogame. Gaming it's supposed to be a fun activity (if you have that fun through challenges, social interactions, etc is completely up to you). Not some kind of "School of Hard Knocks about the Real World".

  13. #153
    I am Murloc! Scummer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bufferunderrun View Post
    well hope they bring thrall back as warchief for 5.4
    I really hope they don't .

    I don't think MoP should be reduced to Operation: Get Thrall back on the throne.

  14. #154
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    Damn PDFs, I didn't remove one of the line breaks.

    The book, The Shattering, specifically says figurehead. Thrall never actually makes Garrosh Warchief.

    The younger orc’s eyes widened, this time in excitement. “You—you are making me warchief?”
    “No. But I am instructing you to lead the Horde on my behalf until I return.”


    Did Thrall come back later and make Garrosh Warchief or did Garrosh just usurp complete control?
    The books and the game aren't the same. Do you remember the pre-WotLK event?

  15. #155
    Dreadlord Lostwood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    I realized something, after finding the posts on the official wow website, that the original post on there, 95% of the posters on it where alliance. Only a couple of posters were horde, and a only a couple of alliance posters had an unbias point to make to the thread.

    this is just as likely the case here. Hardcore alliance fanboys who had a bug up there backside about Thrall, an orc, being a hero. Its so childish, its like debating politics with a seven year old.
    You're the last one that should accuse anyone of bias, with your insatiable infatuation towards a certain green character. Anyone that doesn't share your personal, subjective view of things is wrong, blind, childish and stupid. According to your frequent posts that is.

    I'm fairly neutral on this. Whatever the overall story requires to be compelling and refreshing is alright with me. If that involves Thrall as warchief, sure. If not, fine.
    Last edited by Lostwood; 2013-02-24 at 06:06 PM.

  16. #156
    Quote Originally Posted by Scummer View Post
    I really hope they don't .

    I don't think MoP should be reduced to Operation: Get Thrall back on the throne.
    if anything cata and mop have showed that aside thrall there is no one with power, charisma, reputation among all the races of azeroth and brain to take the warchief position; you can blame blizzard to put all the good guys on alliance side (or alliance aligned) but for now the only one is thrall.
    How about we let the parenting of kids to... their parents? No, seriously, World of Warcraft is a videogame. Gaming it's supposed to be a fun activity (if you have that fun through challenges, social interactions, etc is completely up to you). Not some kind of "School of Hard Knocks about the Real World".

  17. #157
    I am Murloc! Scummer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bufferunderrun View Post
    if anything cata and mop have showed that aside thrall there is no one with power, charisma, reputation among all the races of azeroth and brain to take the warchief position; you can blame blizzard to put all the good guys on alliance side (or alliance aligned) but for now the only one is thrall.
    That's actually one of the other reason why I don't think Thrall should be Warchief. The Horde needs to grow and stop depending on Thrall.

    Regardless of who takes his place as a Warchief I think it would make for an interesting dynamic to have Thrall become an advisor to the next Warchief and the replacement lament upon how difficult a position it is. Thrall get's to stay as a leader in some way, but is no longer Warchief but still plays a large role in the Horde in a constructive manner that also helps the Horde progress in a sensible way while giving Thrall a new narrative.

    Thrall realistically after helping defeat Deathwing would also acknowledge that due to his power and responsibility (Something that has very much concerned him since he decided to help the Earthen Ring) that he will not always be around and may eventually die in action. So it would be a wise decision on his part to have the Horde be less dependent on him always being there.
    Last edited by Scummer; 2013-02-24 at 06:21 PM.

  18. #158
    The Insane Trassk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lostwood View Post
    You're the last one that should accuse anyone of bias, with your insatiable infatuation towards a certain green character. Anyone that doesn't share your personal, subjective view of things is wrong, blind, childish and stupid. According to your frequent posts that is.

    I'm fairly neutral on this. Whatever the overall story requires to be compelling and refreshing is alright with me. If that involves Thrall as warchief, sure. If not, fine.
    oh like hell you are, your just a poster who only pops up to criticize other peoples faults with little to add to a subject. I've never seen anything constructive in your posts.

  19. #159
    Mechagnome Whidbey's Avatar
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    I'd like the final thrall story to have him killed and his being remembered even with all his faults intact as the Horde's Uther. Everyone in the Alliance knows their most revered Pally had his faults too.

  20. #160
    Quote Originally Posted by Scummer View Post
    That's actually one of the other reason why I don't think Thrall should be Warchief. The Horde needs to grow and stop depending on Thrall.

    Regardless of who takes his place as a Warchief I think it would make for an interesting dynamic to have Thrall become an advisor to the next Warchief and the replacement lament upon how difficult a position it is. Thrall get's to stay as a leader in some way, but is no longer Warchief but still plays a large role in the Horde in a constructive manner that also helps the Horde progress in a sensible way while giving Thrall a new narrative.

    Thrall realistically after helping defeat Deathwing would also acknowledge that due to his power and responsibility (Something that has very much concerned him since he decided to help the Earthen Ring) that he will not always be around and may eventually die in action. So it would be a wise decision on his part to have the Horde be less dependent on him always being there.
    this is exactly what was happening during cataclysm, garrosh warchief and vol'jin, caine and eitrigg where advisors it failed miserably why? because there is no one among the current horde that can lead a difficult group of strangers with different goals aside thrall. Btw a different way of being warchief involving the other leader like how varian run the alliance is possible but at the head only thrall has the qualities to last and be respected.
    How about we let the parenting of kids to... their parents? No, seriously, World of Warcraft is a videogame. Gaming it's supposed to be a fun activity (if you have that fun through challenges, social interactions, etc is completely up to you). Not some kind of "School of Hard Knocks about the Real World".

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