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  1. #281
    Quote Originally Posted by AbalDarkwind View Post
    Sholazar Basin, much like Un'Goro Crater before it, was meant as a laboratory to be used by the Titans. The very same Titans that are clearly based upon the Norse Pantheon. Also, Freya wasn't a statue; she was the dominant personality of the zone. Devaluing the history and Freya in Sholazar Basin makes your entire argument seem weak.

    A more consice argument would look like this: Northrend had all of the races of the Alliance and Horde, the Scourge, the Vykrul, the Tuskarr, the Drakkari Trolls, Earthen, Meachanognomes, Dragons, and Furbolgs. Pandaria has all the races of the Alliance and the Horde, the Pandaren, the Mogu, the Zandalari Trolls, the Hozen, the Jinyu, the Grummles, the Saurok, and Cloud Serpents. Pandaria is just as diverse as Northrend. You just can't see it because you can't look past the Pandaren and Mogu dominating the architecture, but can look past the Scourge and Vykrul dominating the architecture in Northrend.

    Crystalsong Forest was barely a zone, so it shouldn't even figure into the equation here. It was a placeholder zone for Dalaran; that's all.
    Hey, I played Sholazar on two toons and I don't remember Freya was statue or whatever. I do remember her in Ulduar though. Freya was certainly not a big part of Sholazar nor its quests. There was no Nordic theme in Sholazar's general scene. You are just nitpicking because you have no argument to make about Sholazar. It was clearly a lush jungle with nothing to do with Norse.

    Save your literature lecture as I certainly don't care. Your "consice" argument, which you couldn't even spell, is longer than what I wrote. So you may want to check out the meaning of "concise", if we are going to nitpick in one another's posts as you tend to do.

    Pandaria is NOT as diverse as Northrend in the representation of races that are not part of the dominant theme. Pandaria has Asian all over the place. Should I cite one more time, Chinese pandas, Chinese script, Chinese cooking, Chinese martial arts, Chinese landscape, Chinese architecture, Chinese music and so on. Blizzard went way over the top in putting Chinese theme all over the place instead of having a balance between old races, new Chinese influenced races and new non-Chinese influenced races. You are wrong in claiming Pandaria is diverse or has all alliance and horde races represented, unless you will claim 0.000000001% of the mobs is representation enough for diversity.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-23 at 08:08 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by AbalDarkwind View Post
    It has a theme of exploration, like Vanilla, and is the entire backdrop to a war that has major parallels with Warcraft II. Orcs and friends versus Humans and friends. Garrosh mirrors Orgrim Doomhammer just as Varian mirrors Anduin Lothar. The Horde pushing heavily and nearly winning until a faction splits off and betrays them (The Stormreavers and Twilight's Hammer in Warcraft II, the entire Horde outside of Garrosh loyalists in MoP). The Alliance rallying to ultimately route and defeat the Horde, at Blackrock Spire in Wacraft II and at Orgrimmar in Mists of Pandaria. Thrall is acts as foil for Gul'dan in that Thrall becomes the rallying point for the Horde rebellion much as Gul'dan became the rallying point for the Horde rebels in Warcraft II; the foil comes into play in that Thrall is the ultimate good guy while Gul'dan was the ultimate bad guy.
    In quest texts and patch notes and blue interviews you can find that nice story, but when you log into the game what you see will be pandas and Chinese theme dominating the PANDAria and the mists of PANDAria.

  2. #282
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    Quote Originally Posted by killidan View Post
    Hey, I played Sholazar on two toons and I don't remember Freya was statue or whatever. I do remember her in Ulduar though. Freya was certainly not a big part of Sholazar nor its quests. There was no Nordic theme in Sholazar's general scene. You are just nitpicking because you have no argument to make about Sholazar. It was clearly a lush jungle with nothing to do with Norse.

    Save your literature lecture as I certainly don't care. Your "consice" argument, which you couldn't even spell, is longer than what I wrote. So you may want to check out the meaning of "concise", if we are going to nitpick in one another's posts as you tend to do.

    Pandaria is NOT as diverse as Northrend in the representation of races that are not part of the dominant theme. Pandaria has Asian all over the place. Should I cite one more time, Chinese pandas, Chinese script, Chinese cooking, Chinese martial arts, Chinese landscape, Chinese architecture, Chinese music and so on. Blizzard went way over the top in putting Chinese theme all over the place instead of having a balance between old races, new Chinese influenced races and new non-Chinese influenced races. You are wrong in claiming Pandaria is diverse or has all alliance and horde races represented, unless you will claim 0.000000001% of the mobs is representation enough for diversity.
    Actually yes, Freya's quests in Sholazar were pretty much the key point of the entire zone. They explained why Sholazar was so lush, it explained a lot about the Titanic testing zones, how their crystal pillar worked, it even explanined a lot of the stuff in Un'goro. So yeah....

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  3. #283
    Quote Originally Posted by AbalDarkwind View Post
    Old Gods existed in one paragraph of the Warcraft III manual, had a little background in the War of the Ancients trilogy, and that was all we knew. Their names, purpose, appearance, etc. were all created wholesale beginning in patch 1.9 with C'thun. Also, what the hell are "The Four Champions of the Old Gods"?

    As for the Black Dragonflight, we knew the name of a grand total of one of them before WoW: Deathwing.
    We did not have World of Old Gods or Continent of Old Gods. Your point is moot. It was a small mention in Warcraft, as I take your word for it, and it had limited stoyline in WoW. It did not take over the game. Unlike pandas.

  4. #284
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    Quote Originally Posted by killidan View Post
    Hey, I played Sholazar on two toons and I don't remember Freya was statue or whatever. I do remember her in Ulduar though. Freya was certainly not a big part of Sholazar nor its quests. There was no Nordic theme in Sholazar's general scene. You are just nitpicking because you have no argument to make about Sholazar. It was clearly a lush jungle with nothing to do with Norse.

    Save your literature lecture as I certainly don't care. Your "consice" argument, which you couldn't even spell, is longer than what I wrote. So you may want to check out the meaning of "concise", if we are going to nitpick in one another's posts as you tend to do.

    Pandaria is NOT as diverse as Northrend in the representation of races that are not part of the dominant theme. Pandaria has Asian all over the place. Should I cite one more time, Chinese pandas, Chinese script, Chinese cooking, Chinese martial arts, Chinese landscape, Chinese architecture, Chinese music and so on. Blizzard went way over the top in putting Chinese theme all over the place instead of having a balance between old races, new Chinese influenced races and new non-Chinese influenced races. You are wrong in claiming Pandaria is diverse or has all alliance and horde races represented, unless you will claim 0.000000001% of the mobs is representation enough for diversity.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-23 at 08:08 PM ----------



    In quest texts and patch notes and blue interviews you can find that nice story, but when you log into the game what you see will be pandas and Chinese theme dominating the PANDAria and the mists of PANDAria.
    Yeah in quest text I find that story... And you do know that the quest and their text is seen in the game right..... Right?

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-23 at 09:12 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by killidan View Post
    We did not have World of Old Gods or Continent of Old Gods. Your point is moot. It was a small mention in Warcraft, as I take your word for it, and it had limited stoyline in WoW. It did not take over the game. Unlike pandas.
    MoP isn't over, stop acting like it is. In fact just stop acting.

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  5. #285
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pebrocks The Warlock View Post
    Actually, the only people who left are the ones who are too immature for the game. It's pretty obvious who those people are.
    Blizzard killed their puppies, so they hate them.

  6. #286
    I like asian theme because I can pretend I'm an anime.

  7. #287
    Quote Originally Posted by haaku View Post
    Read my whole sentence. My opinion is that panda is lore that's created pretty much out of nothing, yes that's how lore becomes lore, but i don't agree the way it was done, nor how they chose to base a whole expansion of it.
    Panda lore is disjointed with the rest of WoW lore. There is a clear break from what Warcraft used to be. Pandas could have been introduced as NPCs their their lore could be extended from WoW lore.

    Instead suddenly we have a continent never heard of by anyone in WoW/Warcraft.

  8. #288
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    Quote Originally Posted by Venziir View Post
    Yeah in quest text I find that story... And you do know that the quest and their text is seen in the game right..... Right?

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-23 at 09:12 PM ----------



    MoP isn't over, stop acting like it is. In fact just stop acting.
    Actually it's funny, Venizir.

    Every poster on the previous page had very well thought out arguments as to how the Chinese Theme of Pandaria, and the Pandaren fit into WoW lore, yet the people who hate it continue to skip over it.

    They're either completely ignoring it or the variables with one side and the other's opinions are so large that they can't find an ounce of middle ground.

  9. #289
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malenurse View Post
    Well that's maybe because u are an asian?

    I'm from Portugal and I like the Asian theme. Your logic is as stupid as saying all the asian MMO players don't play any games that are based on European culture and art style.


  10. #290
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    Quote Originally Posted by killidan View Post
    Panda lore is disjointed with the rest of WoW lore. There is a clear break from what Warcraft used to be. Pandas could have been introduced as NPCs their their lore could be extended from WoW lore.

    Instead suddenly we have a continent never heard of by anyone in WoW/Warcraft.
    .... Of course it's disjointed - the entire continent has been isolated for TEN THOUSAND YEARS. Just like Night Elf lore was disjointed when they were introduced. Urgh. Oh and again - Chen freaking Stormstout mentioned Pandaria in Warcraft 3, thus we knew it existed back then, which was before WoW was released.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-23 at 09:15 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Destil View Post
    Actually it's funny, Venizir.

    Every poster on the previous page had very well thought out arguments as to how the Chinese Theme of Pandaria, and the Pandaren fit into WoW lore, yet the people who hate it continue to skip over it.

    They're either completely ignoring it or the variables with one side and the other's opinions are so large that they can't find an ounce of middle ground.
    You'd better leave this thread before Killidan has a heart attack or calls the interweb police and tells them to go get his mean ol' stalker! :P
    Last edited by Venziir; 2013-02-23 at 08:16 PM.

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  11. #291
    Quote Originally Posted by killidan View Post
    We did not have World of Old Gods or Continent of Old Gods. Your point is moot. It was a small mention in Warcraft, as I take your word for it, and it had limited stoyline in WoW. It did not take over the game. Unlike pandas.
    This guy at least got my point.

  12. #292
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    Quote Originally Posted by haaku View Post
    This guy at least got my point.
    Yes, it's funny how you two agree... You both have no clue and moot points.

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  13. #293
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    Quote Originally Posted by Venziir View Post

    You'd better leave this thread before Killidan has a heart attack or calls the interweb police and tells them to go get his mean ol' stalker! :P
    I can't even quote him to argue his point without my argument being completely ignored and being called a stalker just because he responds to the same thread I'm also responding to. :P Immaturity at its finest, eh?

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-23 at 08:18 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by haaku View Post
    This guy at least got my point.
    Everyone on the previous few pages got your point, Haaku.

    Every person also argued your ENTIRE point and dismantled it, and you continued to make others while they continued to do so.

  14. #294
    Quote Originally Posted by AbalDarkwind View Post
    The irony of this post is astounding.



    That would be because Outland was a vastly changed place from Draenor.

    Also, "Asian" isn't a culture. By lumping them all together, you are showing a severe lack of cultural understanding for the various influences Pandaria has from countries in Southeast Asia.

    You mean like how Warcraft III completely made up Kalimdor, the Night Elves, the Scourge, the Burning Legion, "good" Orcs, and everything else they magically conjured up in that game that wasn't even hinted at in Warcraft II?
    Ever heard of European culture or African culture? It doesn't diminish cultures within those entities, it doesn't diminish Italian, French, Moroccan or Kenyan culture.

    Asian cultures have lot in common when they are compared to outside cultures, like European culture.

    I think it is you who has a clear lack of understanding cultural similarities and dissimmilarities. You may want to think about how you would organize world cultures into large groups.

    Elves, Orcs are part of the same fantasy universe in several table top games and computer games as humans and dwarves. They already have a connection. WoW is quite unique though, thanks to MOP, in putting elves and dwarves together with PANDAS.

    lmao

  15. #295
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    Quote Originally Posted by killidan View Post
    Ever heard of European culture or African culture? It doesn't diminish cultures within those entities, it doesn't diminish Italian, French, Moroccan or Kenyan culture.

    Asian cultures have lot in common when they are compared to outside cultures, like European culture.

    I think it is you who has a clear lack of understanding cultural similarities and dissimmilarities. You may want to think about how you would organize world cultures into large groups.

    Elves, Orcs are part of the same fantasy universe in several table top games and computer games as humans and dwarves. They already have a connection. WoW is quite unique though, thanks to MOP, in putting elves and dwarves together with PANDAS.

    lmao
    Not really. There's an Asian themed D&D from the late 80's with pandas. Oh and TERA Online has these guys http://tera-europe.com/world/races/popori they are basically Red Pandas.

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  16. #296
    Quote Originally Posted by Destil View Post
    I can't even quote him to argue his point without my argument being completely ignored and being called a stalker just because he responds to the same thread I'm also responding to. :P Immaturity at its finest, eh?

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-23 at 08:18 PM ----------



    Everyone on the previous few pages got your point, Haaku.

    Every person also argued your ENTIRE point and dismantled it, and you continued to make others while they continued to do so.
    I have to disagree.

  17. #297
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    Quote Originally Posted by killidan View Post
    Ever heard of European culture or African culture? It doesn't diminish cultures within those entities, it doesn't diminish Italian, French, Moroccan or Kenyan culture.

    Asian cultures have lot in common when they are compared to outside cultures, like European culture.

    I think it is you who has a clear lack of understanding cultural similarities and dissimmilarities. You may want to think about how you would organize world cultures into large groups.

    Elves, Orcs are part of the same fantasy universe in several table top games and computer games as humans and dwarves. They already have a connection. WoW is quite unique though, thanks to MOP, in putting elves and dwarves together with PANDAS.

    lmao
    Mind showing such comparisons in Asian culture, then?

    The only thing I think of with Asian culture is China, which I call Ethnic or Chinese not Asian.

    Asian culture includes things from the Middle East, to Russia, to China, to Vietnam, etc.

    It has one stereotypical image of lumping it together with just being China or anyone who's Chinese/Japanese.

    Show how the culture is the same all around, and I'll understand your point perfectly.

    Oh, also, in your point of Pandas not being part of other Fantasy universes, I'm trying to find it via google but I know of two other games who have such a race as Pandas, and no one was outspoken against that.

    Also to add to this: your view on Pandas is the equivalent to my view on Tauren and Gnomes.

    I find them both silly and having no place in WoW's universe.

    But that's just MY view on it, and I don't vehemently defend it nor try and trounce on other people's views just because they disagree with me.
    Last edited by Destil; 2013-02-23 at 08:27 PM.

  18. #298
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    Quote Originally Posted by haaku View Post
    I have to disagree.
    That's not even a proper answer to the post you are answering. You might as well have written "Potato".

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  19. #299
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    Quote Originally Posted by haaku View Post
    I have to disagree.
    Am I honestly going to have to go through the last page, quote you, and bold where in other people's posts they pointed out your points and then countered them?

    Reread if you disagree. It's very easy to see they countered you at nearly every turn.

  20. #300
    Quote Originally Posted by Nekrus View Post
    I don't understand people saying that pandaren don't fit in the wow universe. Please tell me how jersey shore goblins whose entire starting zone was riddled with being a so called "joke" race fit. How about the Draenei? Originally they were supposed to be a friendly race to the orcs then the legion corrupted the orcs and the slaughtering began. But when TBC came out the Draenei shifted to being space exiles of an advanced divine society, how does that fit into a medieval themed world? And the burning crusade is commonly accepted as probably the greatest expansion in wow.

    The point is all lore is just created and arguing that it doesn't fit into the world the developers created in the first place is ridiculous. If they didn't want them to fit into THEIR world then they wouldn't be in there. If you don't agree with the direction of the creators then you have the right to not play. Airing your grievances is one issue but whining and arguing over someone else's creation is a bit childish.
    That starting zone is an abomination.

    Retcon, I can live with, I don't mind the Draenei. Again, Draenei did not bring a real world culture and dropped it all over the expansion/outland. They blended in with the rest of WoW universe.

    Your assumption is developers know exactly what will be a good fit into the game. That is a wrong assumption. Developers are not WoW lore nerds, they are paid employees in a company. There are many things that go on in a game company that would affect the outcome, but I won't waste time on that. I'll just leave you with greedy businessman Kotick, biologist GC, and Sam Didier, the guy who perhaps sways more influence than an ordinary artist since the big guys left for Titan.

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