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  1. #301
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    Quote Originally Posted by Destil View Post
    Mind showing such comparisons in Asian culture, then?

    The only thing I think of with Asian culture is China, which I call Ethnic or Chinese not Asian.

    Asian culture includes things from the Middle East, to Russia, to China, to Vietnam, etc.

    It has one stereotypical image of lumping it together with just being China or anyone who's Chinese/Japanese.

    Show how the culture is the same all around, and I'll understand your point perfectly.

    Oh, also, in your point of Pandas not being part of other Fantasy universes, I'm trying to find it via google but I know of two other games who have such a race as Pandas, and no one was outspoken against that.
    I'd have to go with the Red Pandaman from TERA again. TERA is about as new as MoP, has Panda people, and yet no one protested. Now one could say that there's no reason to protest, because TERA has the standard JRPG thing going on, yet they've also got High Elves, which isn't usually something that's found in asian (or asian inspired) games, which results in the same clash.
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  2. #302
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    Quote Originally Posted by Venziir View Post
    I'd have to go with the Red Pandaman from TERA again. TERA is about as new as MoP, has Panda people, and yet no one protested. Now one could say that there's no reason to protest, because TERA has the standard JRPG thing going on, yet they've also got High Elves, which isn't usually something that's found in asian (or asian inspired) games, which results in the same clash.
    THAT WAS IT. Tera was one of them.

    I can't remember but when Mists was introduced and there was such backlash, a poster on the forums made a point there were one or two other games with Pandas as races in them, and they were the most popular race for the game.

    The only reason people have such an issue with the Pandaren is because of things like Kung fu Panda, and the fact that such things in popular culture, along with the stereotypical image of a Panda being "cute and fuzzy" program people into disliking them so much.
    Quote Originally Posted by Imnick View Post
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  3. #303
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    Quote Originally Posted by killidan View Post
    That starting zone is an abomination.

    Retcon, I can live with, I don't mind the Draenei. Again, Draenei did not bring a real world culture and dropped it all over the expansion/outland. They blended in with the rest of WoW universe.

    Your assumption is developers know exactly what will be a good fit into the game. That is a wrong assumption. Developers are not WoW lore nerds, they are paid employees in a company. There are many things that go on in a game company that would affect the outcome, but I won't waste time on that. I'll just leave you with greedy businessman Kotick, biologist GC, and Sam Didier, the guy who perhaps sways more influence than an ordinary artist since the big guys left for Titan.
    Developers aren't lore nerds, true. But you honestly don't think that say Metzen gets a say in what the developers are making? Of course he does. Don't you think the lore nerds gets involved? Who do think writes the quests?

    And all the big guys left for Titan, that's just pathetic, laughable and a lie.
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  4. #304
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    Quote Originally Posted by Venziir View Post
    Developers aren't lore nerds, true. But you honestly don't think that say Metzen gets a say in what the developers are making? Of course he does. Don't you think the lore nerds gets involved? Who do think writes the quests?

    And all the big guys left for Titan, that's just pathetic, laughable and a lie.
    Isn't Metzen one of the guys who basically runs EVERYTHING with WoW, and doesn't just write/voice act?

    Most of the decisions also run through him and the other Big Bosses of Blizzard?

    He gives it a story baseline, like how it fits into the story and can be developed, and then the developers do said work.

    I might be wrong though!
    Quote Originally Posted by Imnick View Post
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  5. #305
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    Quote Originally Posted by Destil View Post
    THAT WAS IT. Tera was one of them.

    I can't remember but when Mists was introduced and there was such backlash, a poster on the forums made a point there were one or two other games with Pandas as races in them, and they were the most popular race for the game.

    The only reason people have such an issue with the Pandaren is because of things like Kung fu Panda, and the fact that such things in popular culture, along with the stereotypical image of a Panda being "cute and fuzzy" program people into disliking them so much.
    And let's not forget that the Pandaren are older than KFP, and heck, the idea of kung-fu fighting antropomorphical pandas is old as feck. There are chinese myths and folklore about such creatures, and there's even a very famous chinese anime from the 50's with a were-panda as the protagonist.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-23 at 09:32 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Destil View Post
    Isn't Metzen one of the guys who basically runs EVERYTHING with WoW, and doesn't just write/voice act?

    Most of the decisions also run through him and the other Big Bosses of Blizzard?

    He gives it a story baseline, like how it fits into the story and can be developed, and then the developers do said work.

    I might be wrong though!
    Metzen is the guy who is charge of the story and lore for all Blizzard games. Warcraft, Starcraft and Diablo. The guy's word is law. He's the guy who tells the authors of the various novels what he wants written. And let's not forget that his title is Senior Vice President of Creative Development, so don't try and tell me he isn't part of the developers.
    *broken link*
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  6. #306
    Quote Originally Posted by Destil View Post
    Am I honestly going to have to go through the last page, quote you, and bold where in other people's posts they pointed out your points and then countered them?

    Reread if you disagree. It's very easy to see they countered you at nearly every turn.
    You do that, so i can clarify my points.


    Also, a question for those who's angry here: Do you really think just because of 1 panda blizzard can justify creating a whole expansion based on pandas? And if yes; The way they did it, no hints about its existence in wow, no npc, nothing, do you think that was smart?
    Last edited by haaku; 2013-02-23 at 08:37 PM.

  7. #307
    Quote Originally Posted by KunkkaTheAdmiral View Post
    Sir you have a great opinion, luckily not everyone has the same.
    And I love how you push everything different in a culture aside by calling it "insignificant". North america and south america are probably the same for you too.

    There was no diversity in Burning Crusade too, everything legion, diversity in WotLk ? Fuck dat all the same scandinavian stuff.
    Cataclysm ? Shiet its all the big bad dragon who fucked us up, no diversity here.

    See what I did here ? If I don't search for something different or likeable or don't even try to enjoy it, you won't.
    You can claim all you won't. Nobody's going to go and quantify diversity in expansions and do statistics and prove you wrong. You can have your opinion and we have ours.

    Burning Legion and Dragon are not real life cultures. There is a difference in MOP, where a real world culture takes over the game.

    In Wrath, there was definitely more diversity than there is in MOP. This was discussed couple pages back in this thread, you may want to go and read.

  8. #308
    Elemental Lord Destil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by haaku View Post
    You do that, so i can clarify my points.
    Or you could go re-read instead of making the guy who's trouncing on your points do all the work.

    Literally the second post argues against your first point you made.

    Quote Originally Posted by Exorte View Post
    Because that is how the whole Warcraft lore have always worked.
    In The first game, Warcraft: Orc and Human, there is only Orc and Human. No old god, night elf, or most of race or lore, not even hints. In Warcraft 3, was the first time old god, panadren, etc. are hinted at. Then in WoW, Old god become the biggest bad guys. There is really no difference in how most of the titan lore, Old god, are introduced compare to Panadren. There was only vague hints and only starting at Warcraft 3. At least, a Panadren was in the game and actually played a part in the Founding of Durotar.
    Still better than some race/lore in previous expansion or classic that is pull out of thin air.
    Quote Originally Posted by AbalDarkwind View Post
    You can't just take everything in Vanilla and ignore everything that came before it. It's like reading Lord of the Rings and ignoring The Hobbit.

    Even if you did, that means the entirety of Vanilla was brand new lore. It was brand new lore on a scale that would dwarf anything in Mists of Pandaria.
    There's two examples.
    Quote Originally Posted by Imnick View Post
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  9. #309
    The Lightbringer Kathranis's Avatar
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    I just don't get how people accept all of the other cultures Blizzard has drawn on for World of Warcraft (Norse, European, Native American, Carribean, Japanese, Egyptian, Middle Eastern, etc.) and then single out Chinese culture as something that "doesn't fit." Seriously, what a load of bullshit.

    China has its own history of fantasy and mythology, which includes dragons and warriors and emperors and gods. Why can't Blizzard incorporate that into WoW, along with all the other mythologies and cultures they've drawn from?


    Quote Originally Posted by killidan View Post
    Instead suddenly we have a continent never heard of by anyone in WoW/Warcraft.
    Except that Pandaria was mentioned in Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne and World of Warcraft.

    And of course, you could argue the same thing about Kalimdor and Northrend, and the tauren, night elves, tuskarr, the Scourge, and the Burning Legion, which hadn't even been hinted at in Warcraft or Warcraft II.

    Why is it that all you people who complain about Pandaria "coming out of nowhere" fully embrace Kalimdor and Northrend? After two games and nearly a full decade of Azeroth being the name for the "Eastern Kingdoms" continent, they changed it to the name of the entire world and said there were two other giant continents we'd never heard of, and on one of them was a race of elves that were responsible for just about every major moment in Warcraft history, yet had never been mentioned before. All the while introducing a zombie apocalypse and completely retconning all of the series mythology to introduce the Titans, Burning Legion, and Holy Light.

    Oh, right, because the lot of you probably hadn't even heard of Warcraft until well after the MMORPG was released, and your entire knowledge of the franchise is based on hearsay from forums and occasional visits to WoWWiki.

  10. #310
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kathranis View Post
    I just don't get how people accept all of the other cultures Blizzard has drawn on for World of Warcraft (Norse, European, Native American, Carribean, Japanese, Egyptian, Middle Eastern, etc.) and then single out Chinese culture as something that "doesn't fit." Seriously, what a load of bullshit.

    China has its own history of fantasy and mythology, which includes dragons and warriors and emperors and gods. Why can't Blizzard incorporate that into WoW, along with all the other mythologies and cultures they've drawn from?
    I mean, I'm Middle Eastern and the references to it in game are actually pretty nifty.

    I don't know a lot about my culture but I find it pretty cool, along with how other cultures are presented in game.

    Not even all of Pandaria has the Chinese Theme.

    Dread Wastes is one of the biggest zones and it definitely doesn't.
    Quote Originally Posted by Imnick View Post
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  11. #311
    Quote Originally Posted by Pebrocks The Warlock View Post
    Actually, the only people who left are the ones who are too immature for the game. It's pretty obvious who those people are.
    lol that was a ridiculous thing to say. Why do panda-lovers so sensitive about being mature?

    People who like cute cuddly pandas in the game, as little kids in Toys R Us do, are sure very mature. People who like Pokemon, which was popular among kids in 2000s, are in their teens / early tweens now and I am sure are oozing with maturity. People who have been playing WoW/Warcraft for more than a decade are sure very immature.

    Come back when you make sense.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-23 at 08:38 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Venziir View Post
    Yeah in quest text I find that story... And you do know that the quest and their text is seen in the game right..... Right?

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-23 at 09:12 PM ----------



    MoP isn't over, stop acting like it is. In fact just stop acting.
    You realize that there is a game beyond quest texts, right? It's a very visual game.

  12. #312
    Quote Originally Posted by Tackhisis View Post
    Absolutely. They all share the standard European culture with insignificant differences.
    Wow, just wow!!!!!!!! Your ignorance is beyond belief.

  13. #313
    MoP was based off Asian mythology
    Wrath was based on Norse mythology
    Everything else was based on Warhammer mythology
    Quote Originally Posted by Extremity View Post
    I like turtles. I would like turtle-based tier sets. I would like a turtle shell helmet, and perhaps a cheeseburger backpack and a chestpiece that simply places a red gemstone on my bellybutton.

  14. #314
    Quote Originally Posted by Venziir View Post
    .... Of course it's disjointed - the entire continent has been isolated for TEN THOUSAND YEARS. Just like Night Elf lore was disjointed when they were introduced. Urgh. Oh and again - Chen freaking Stormstout mentioned Pandaria in Warcraft 3, thus we knew it existed back then, which was before WoW was released.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-23 at 09:15 PM ----------



    You'd better leave this thread before Killidan has a heart attack or calls the interweb police and tells them to go get his mean ol' stalker! :P
    It was a bad idea to take the game to an unheard of place full of out-of-lore stuff that mimicks China.

    Warcraft 3 mentioned lot of things, they dont make and dominate entire continent and expansions.

  15. #315
    Quote Originally Posted by Destil View Post
    Or you could go re-read instead of making the guy who's trouncing on your points do all the work.

    Literally the second post argues against your first point you made.





    There's two examples.
    I suggest you re-read what i wrote, it might grasp you then.

    Warcraft(1-3) is not wow, World of Warcraft is not wow, Novels is not WoW, everything together is wow. Panda exist yes, but it came out of nearly nothingness and one can argue that it was made especially for a fresh market e.g Asia.

  16. #316
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    Quote Originally Posted by killidan View Post
    lol that was a ridiculous thing to say. Why do panda-lovers so sensitive about being mature?

    People who like cute cuddly pandas in the game, as little kids in Toys R Us do, are sure very mature. People who like Pokemon, which was popular among kids in 2000s, are in their teens / early tweens now and I am sure are oozing with maturity. People who have been playing WoW/Warcraft for more than a decade are sure very immature.

    Come back when you make sense.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-23 at 08:38 PM ----------



    You realize that there is a game beyond quest texts, right? It's a very visual game.
    People busy calling others immature truly OOZE OF MATURITY themselves.... Jesus Christ.... Seriously, bashing people like that, yes you are indeed the very pinnacle of maturity!

    And *You* were the one who mentioned quest text in the first place - Derp.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-23 at 09:45 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by haaku View Post
    I suggest you re-read what i wrote, it might grasp you then.

    Warcraft(1-3) is not wow, World of Warcraft is not wow, Novels is not WoW, everything together is wow. Panda exist yes, but it came out of nearly nothingness and one can argue that it was made especially for a fresh market e.g Asia.
    World of Warcraft isn't WoW? ......... Really? W.o.W stands for World of Warcraft, therefor I assure you; WoW is World of Warcraft. The overall term is the Warcraft Franchise, which includes everything Warcraft. And no, one cannot argue that it was made for a fresh asian market, when in fact the very idea of the Pandaren came from Samwise doodling panda creatures after being inspired by an old manga.
    *broken link*
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  17. #317
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    Quote Originally Posted by killidan View Post
    Sholazar theme was Ungoro 2.0 with Nessingwary and animals. A lush jungle is not Norse, now is it? One Freya statue makes it Norse for you, then I disagree with that.

    Grizzly Hills had trolls, humans, dwarves and Vrykul. It was a more balanced mixture of various races, old and new. Pandas, Grummies, Pandas, Yaungol, Pandas, Mogu, Pandas, Pandas, Pandas doesn't work for me.

    Crystalsong was not Norse. Trees and dragons have been around in WoW for a long time, they were not some Norse addition to WoW. Besides, there is nothing obviously Norse about trees of life and dragons. You are confused about the difference between subtle inspiration and copying.
    Are you ignoring the Zandalari in Pandaria? And the upcoming patch, perhaps?

  18. #318
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    Quote Originally Posted by killidan View Post
    It was a bad idea to take the game to an unheard of place full of out-of-lore stuff that mimicks China.

    Warcraft 3 mentioned lot of things, they dont make and dominate entire continent and expansions.
    Warcraft 3 mentioned Northrend, Kalimdor and Night Elves. Kalimdor and Northrend are continents. Northrend was an expansion, and Night Elves more or less dominated Kalimdor in Warcraft 3. ... What was your point again?

    Oh and for the 50th time, Pandaria was mentioned in Warcraft 3 TFT, thus it wasn't unheard of.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-23 at 09:47 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by BalwickZaik View Post
    Are you ignoring the Zandalari in Pandaria? And the upcoming patch, perhaps?
    He's ignoring both logic and facts. He's quite good at it though, I'll give him that.
    *broken link*
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  19. #319
    The Lightbringer SL1200's Avatar
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    The idea of the Pandarian race didn't bother me, but I really thought the Asian setting / storyline would suck. It ended up being much better than I thought. I'd really like to finish up the questing someday to read the story, unfortunately rep grinds are taking precedence over that right now. Questing had been one of my least favorite activities in wow, but mop questing was much better.

  20. #320
    Quote Originally Posted by killidan View Post
    lol that was a ridiculous thing to say. Why do panda-lovers so sensitive about being mature?

    People who like cute cuddly pandas in the game, as little kids in Toys R Us do, are sure very mature. People who like Pokemon, which was popular among kids in 2000s, are in their teens / early tweens now and I am sure are oozing with maturity. People who have been playing WoW/Warcraft for more than a decade are sure very immature.

    Come back when you make sense.
    This is by far one of the most ignorant posts I've ever read. What does the game you play have to do with your maturity level? I'd think your actual maturity level would be more of a factor in this. I've had college professors who played WoW, is a guy with a Ph. D. in psychology automatically immature at that point? I have a friend in his last year of law school who still plays Pokemon in his free time, but he must be immature too if he's that far into law school AND plays pokemon.

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