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  1. #321
    Quote Originally Posted by Venziir View Post
    People busy calling others immature truly OOZE OF MATURITY themselves.... Jesus Christ.... Seriously, bashing people like that, yes you are indeed the very pinnacle of maturity!

    And *You* were the one who mentioned quest text in the first place - Derp.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-23 at 09:45 PM ----------



    World of Warcraft isn't WoW? ......... Really? W.o.W stands for World of Warcraft, therefor I assure you; WoW is World of Warcraft. The overall term is the Warcraft Franchise, which includes everything Warcraft. And no, one cannot argue that it was made for a fresh asian market, when in fact the very idea of the Pandaren came from Samwise doodling panda creatures after being inspired by an old manga.
    Wow as in all its lore. And i can indeed argue, because one have to wonder why they make an expansion out of, as many have said before me, nothing.

  2. #322
    Quote Originally Posted by Venziir View Post
    Not really. There's an Asian themed D&D from the late 80's with pandas. Oh and TERA Online has these guys http://tera-europe.com/world/races/popori they are basically Red Pandas.
    You're right I forgot TERA. Pandas made it into Asian, yet in part euro-fantasy, video games. Very recently. One cannot conclude that in general Pandas share lore with euro-fantasy races the way orcs, dwarves, elves, humans, goblins, trolls do. I like to see a Tolkienesque fantasy world as much as possible.

  3. #323
    Lots of thinly veiled racism here. As par usual.

    MoP is fantasy asian themed. Get over it. Its just as viable and colourful as any other form of fantasy, and its a nice change of pace for the time being. Its temporary.

    Now, not all of Pandaria is Chinese themed.

    Townlong Steppes is clearly based partially on Mongolia, and the Yaungol have a Mongolian vibe to them. Dread Wastes is much more similar to Sithilus, which isn't Asian themed at all.

    How many people complained Uldum is basically a cut-and-paste Eygpt? How many people complained that Twilight Highlands is basically Scottland?

  4. #324
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    Quote Originally Posted by killidan View Post
    You're right I forgot TERA. Pandas made it into Asian, yet in part euro-fantasy, video games. Very recently. One cannot conclude that in general Pandas share lore with euro-fantasy races the way orcs, dwarves, elves, humans, goblins, trolls do. I like to see a Tolkienesque fantasy world as much as possible.
    Again, D&D (arguably the most Tolkienesque fantasy world there is, bar obviously the real Tolkien world) had Oriental Adventures I think it was called - with pandas and other asian creatures. And that's from '85, and the euro-fantasy wave didn't really start until the early 80's with Warhammer and D&D. And honestly, if you want a proper Tolkienesque world, then play another game. Warcraft stopped being proper Tolkienesque over 10 years ago really. But try Neverwinter, Warhammer Online, or obviously LOTRO if you want something a lot more... Stale and Tolkienesque. Or sign up for the Pathfinder Online beta. Heck, or even the TESO beta.

    Oh and yes, one can conclude that pandaren are just as fitting in a fantasy universe as say a dwarf - because it's all FANTASY, thus it's all fairy tales and random bollocks, there's absolutely no reason to wrap it up in thinly veiled xenophobic rubbish.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-23 at 09:54 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by haaku View Post
    Wow as in all its lore. And i can indeed argue, because one have to wonder why they make an expansion out of, as many have said before me, nothing.
    Then you mean the Warcraft Franchise, and not just WoW. And obviously you can argue, but you are simply wrong and your constant arguing only makes you seem... Silly.
    Last edited by Venziir; 2013-02-23 at 08:57 PM.

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  5. #325
    Quote Originally Posted by Destil View Post
    Mind showing such comparisons in Asian culture, then?

    The only thing I think of with Asian culture is China, which I call Ethnic or Chinese not Asian.

    Asian culture includes things from the Middle East, to Russia, to China, to Vietnam, etc.

    It has one stereotypical image of lumping it together with just being China or anyone who's Chinese/Japanese.

    Show how the culture is the same all around, and I'll understand your point perfectly.

    Oh, also, in your point of Pandas not being part of other Fantasy universes, I'm trying to find it via google but I know of two other games who have such a race as Pandas, and no one was outspoken against that.

    Also to add to this: your view on Pandas is the equivalent to my view on Tauren and Gnomes.

    I find them both silly and having no place in WoW's universe.

    But that's just MY view on it, and I don't vehemently defend it nor try and trounce on other people's views just because they disagree with me.

    They share the script. They share the rice as staple food. They share the pagodas as traditional architecture. They share Buddhism as a traditional religion. (as opposed to Latin alphabet, wheat as staple, medieval architectures, christianity as religion, in Europe)

    This was not my point about Chinese cultural domination in MOP though. I think Chinese culture dominates MOP, and we see very little of anything else Asian.

    I agree Tauren are not my favorite race. However, Tauren or Gnomes have not had an entire continent or expansion for them. They have blended in the background and have not been IN YOUR FACE. Unlike pandas.

  6. #326
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    Quote Originally Posted by killidan View Post
    It was a bad idea to take the game to an unheard of place full of out-of-lore stuff that mimicks China.

    Warcraft 3 mentioned lot of things, they dont make and dominate entire continent and expansions.
    Warcraft III was almost completely about two continents and a bunch of new races that had never even been mentioned in the previous games.

    Kalimdor and Northrend came completely out of nowhere. The night elves had never been hinted at in a decade of Warcraft games, yet are supposed to have been the most influential race on Azeroth's history.

    And you're complaining about a single expansion (life cycle: one and a half years, two years tops) revolving around a race and continent that has been mentioned countless times in the ten years since Warcraft III was released.


    Quote Originally Posted by killidan View Post
    lol that was a ridiculous thing to say. Why do panda-lovers so sensitive about being mature?

    People who like cute cuddly pandas in the game, as little kids in Toys R Us do, are sure very mature. People who like Pokemon, which was popular among kids in 2000s, are in their teens / early tweens now and I am sure are oozing with maturity. People who have been playing WoW/Warcraft for more than a decade are sure very immature.
    You're one to talk about maturity. You write and act like a teenager and waste your time on forums complaining and calling other people immature for liking things you don't.

    I started playing Pokemon in 1997 when I was about 12. I still play new Pokemon games when they are released, as do nearly all of my IRL friends. We're all in our mid-to-late twenties, most of us have careers and some of us are married. We all grew up playing video games, Pokemon being just one of the many franchises we enjoyed, which also includes stuff like Metal Gear, Mortal Kombat, Final Fantasy, and Warcraft.

    You, on the other hand, sound like a kid who is so concerned with looking mature that you wouldn't be caught dead playing something other people might perceive as immature, even if it was something you enjoyed. God forbid someone sees you play World of Warcraft, you might have to explain why you're playing a game with panda-men in it. You'd probably deny yourself a trip to Disney World because it's "gay" and "for kids."

    Do yourself a favor and grow up. Maturity is a state of mind, not a reflection of your hobbies.
    Last edited by Kathranis; 2013-02-23 at 09:03 PM.

  7. #327
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    Well this thread is certainty quite the enlightening discussion, I guess I should add my 2 cents about the east Asian culture of Pandaria.


    *Disclaimer, my opinion, don't take it as facts!*


    Imho, east Asian culture has never really caught my eye as exciting nor something that would seal the deal in games; in fact, it, (for the most part) drives me away from said game. For all that I've played WoW, (not long for "veterans" but since mid-tbc) being in Panda-land has really killed my taste for the game, although one could say it's b/c of the dailies, we've had these amount of dailies always, they aren't actually the problem I have with MoP.

    Don't get me wrong, Panda-land could be one of the best expansions they've ever released, but it doesn't appeal to me at all in the slightest. I've been drudging through this expansion, even considering quitting until the dermons invade & Mary-Sue and Med-an come to our rescue once again. I'm not ignorant to the culture, nor am I hating on the culture, it just doesn't appeal to me.

    I'm just hoping when they announce the new expansion, I might be exited to jump into the next adventure they have in store for us, b/c right now, this lore is more dull than sitting through an 80 minute Chemistry class that's all about notes.
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  8. #328
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    Quote Originally Posted by killidan View Post
    They share the script. They share the rice as staple food. They share the pagodas as traditional architecture. They share Buddhism as a traditional religion. (as opposed to Latin alphabet, wheat as staple, medieval architectures, christianity as religion, in Europe)

    This was not my point about Chinese cultural domination in MOP though. I think Chinese culture dominates MOP, and we see very little of anything else Asian.

    I agree Tauren are not my favorite race. However, Tauren or Gnomes have not had an entire continent or expansion for them. They have blended in the background and have not been IN YOUR FACE. Unlike pandas.
    Try finding a pagoda in India, Mongolia or Asia Minor. And Buddhism isn't really the traditional religion of most Asian countries, most of them are Hindus, Muslim or Taoists/Daoists. That said, there's still a truckload of Buddhists obviously.

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  9. #329
    Quote Originally Posted by Venziir View Post
    Developers aren't lore nerds, true. But you honestly don't think that say Metzen gets a say in what the developers are making? Of course he does. Don't you think the lore nerds gets involved? Who do think writes the quests?

    And all the big guys left for Titan, that's just pathetic, laughable and a lie.
    Apparently, Metzen, Pardo, Kaplan, who else, they did not get involved in the decision making process enough and let the second class run the show. The game ended up in ridicule.

  10. #330
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    Quote Originally Posted by killidan View Post
    Apparently, Metzen, Pardo, Kaplan, who else, they did not get involved in the decision making process enough and let the second class run the show. The game ended up in ridicule.
    ............. Are you honestly trying to claim that Metzen isn't involved in MoP? REALLY? Mother of every single God, that's just hilarious! He just voiced Thrall in the current patch, and you try to claim that he isn't involved? Did you not see Metzen at Blizzcon, defending MoP every time some random basement dweller derped up about KFP? The guy looked as if he was about to implode.

    Trust me, he's kneedeep in the game.

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  11. #331
    Quote Originally Posted by Venziir View Post
    Metzen is the guy who is charge of the story and lore for all Blizzard games. Warcraft, Starcraft and Diablo. The guy's word is law. He's the guy who tells the authors of the various novels what he wants written. And let's not forget that his title is Senior Vice President of Creative Development, so don't try and tell me he isn't part of the developers.
    None of us knows what goes on inside the company in terms of decision making on expansion lore and theme and specifically what happened in regards to MOP.

  12. #332
    Quote Originally Posted by FiftyDKPMinus View Post
    This lore is more dull than sitting through an 80 minute Chemistry class that's all about notes.
    So what exactly was interesting and appealing to you? The way you condescend to the entire expansion as Pandaland speaks volumes over your attempts to waterdown how you feel. But really, unappealing? What is more appealing? Illidan? The Lich King? Tired old storylines of misunderstood anti-heroes or big bads trying to destroy the world for whatever pathetic ends they have in mind?

  13. #333
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    Quote Originally Posted by killidan View Post
    None of us knows what goes on inside the company in terms of decision making on expansion lore and theme and specifically what happened in regards to MOP.
    And yet, you act as if you do. Class act.

    However, we do know exactly what Metzen does and that he's charge of the story of every single Blizzard game.
    Last edited by Venziir; 2013-02-23 at 09:09 PM.

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  14. #334
    Quote Originally Posted by Kathranis View Post
    Warcraft III was almost completely about two continents and a bunch of new races that had never even been mentioned in the previous games.

    Kalimdor and Northrend came completely out of nowhere. The night elves had never been hinted at in a decade of Warcraft games, yet are supposed to have been the most influential race on Azeroth's history.

    And you're complaining about a single expansion (life cycle: one and a half years, two years tops) revolving around a race and continent that has been mentioned countless times in the ten years since Warcraft III was released.


    Warcraft(1-3) is NOT the lore, it's a part of it, it might have been the first, but it's just fragments of the whole puzzle.

  15. #335
    Quote Originally Posted by haaku View Post
    You do that, so i can clarify my points.


    Also, a question for those who's angry here: Do you really think just because of 1 panda blizzard can justify creating a whole expansion based on pandas? And if yes; The way they did it, no hints about its existence in wow, no npc, nothing, do you think that was smart?
    That was definitely not smart.

    If there were some prelude to MOP in a previous expansion, some mention of a far away continent, some mention of pandaren, maybe even some NPC, it could possibly create some continuity in lore from Warcraft to Pandaria. It would set the expectation, it would prepare the players to a drastic change that takes the game away from Wacraft universe.

    It was an April Fool's joke and next thing we know they are announcing it as the whole continent and expansion. It was very clumsy and naive they thought that players will accept anything that comes out of Blizzard devs.

  16. #336
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    I actually enjoy it and it's really well done.

    It's just a style like any other and diversity simply adds up.

  17. #337
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    Quote Originally Posted by haaku View Post
    Warcraft(1-3) is NOT the lore, it's a part of it, it might have been the first, but it's just fragments of the whole puzzle.
    You are about to win the "Best at Missing Points" award.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-23 at 10:11 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by killidan View Post
    That was definitely not smart.

    If there were some prelude to MOP in a previous expansion, some mention of a far away continent, some mention of pandaren, maybe even some NPC, it could possibly create some continuity in lore from Warcraft to Pandaria. It would set the expectation, it would prepare the players to a drastic change that takes the game away from Wacraft universe.

    It was an April Fool's joke and next thing we know they are announcing it as the whole continent and expansion. It was very clumsy and naive they thought that players will accept anything that comes out of Blizzard devs.
    There was some prelude. AGAIN we had Chen mention the freaking place. We had Thrall dream of a "far away, mist shrouded continent" in his shortstory.

    And no, the only naitivity was that they assumed that people aren't scared of change.

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  18. #338
    Quote Originally Posted by Kathranis View Post
    I just don't get how people accept all of the other cultures Blizzard has drawn on for World of Warcraft (Norse, European, Native American, Carribean, Japanese, Egyptian, Middle Eastern, etc.) and then single out Chinese culture as something that "doesn't fit." Seriously, what a load of bullshit.

    China has its own history of fantasy and mythology, which includes dragons and warriors and emperors and gods. Why can't Blizzard incorporate that into WoW, along with all the other mythologies and cultures they've drawn from?
    That's exactly what we want. Integrate new lore into Warcraft universe, not take over. Panda and Chinese domination on this expansion is way beyond any previous race or real world culture ever achieved.

  19. #339
    Quote Originally Posted by killidan View Post
    Hey, I played Sholazar on two toons and I don't remember Freya was statue or whatever. I do remember her in Ulduar though. Freya was certainly not a big part of Sholazar nor its quests. There was no Nordic theme in Sholazar's general scene. You are just nitpicking because you have no argument to make about Sholazar. It was clearly a lush jungle with nothing to do with Norse.
    Then you didn't pay attention to the story of the zone. As for Freya:

    http://www.wowpedia.org/Avatar_of_Freya

    14 quests that thematically tie up all of the important parts of the zone. In fact, here are all the quests of the Oracles, who tie into the Titans and Freya:

    http://www.wowpedia.org/Oracles

    Save your literature lecture as I certainly don't care. Your "consice" argument, which you couldn't even spell, is longer than what I wrote. So you may want to check out the meaning of "concise", if we are going to nitpick in one another's posts as you tend to do.
    You accuse me of nitpicking, and then decide to attack one word choice and the spelling of it? You have to be pulling my leg here.

    Pandaria is NOT as diverse as Northrend in the representation of races that are not part of the dominant theme. Pandaria has Asian all over the place. Should I cite one more time, Chinese pandas, Chinese script, Chinese cooking, Chinese martial arts, Chinese landscape, Chinese architecture, Chinese music and so on. Blizzard went way over the top in putting Chinese theme all over the place instead of having a balance between old races, new Chinese influenced races and new non-Chinese influenced races. You are wrong in claiming Pandaria is diverse or has all alliance and horde races represented, unless you will claim 0.000000001% of the mobs is representation enough for diversity.
    Asian isn't a culture, just like European and North American aren't cultures. Funny that you mention Pandas all of the place but ignore the Hozen and Jinyu, who dominate the Jade Forest, the Mantid, who dominate the Dread Wastes, the Yaungol, who dominate Townlong Steppes, the Grummles, who appear in Kun-Lai Summit, and the Mogu and Zandalari, who appear all over the continent. You need to realize how culturally bankrupt your argument is and "Pandas" has made your point of view quite narrow in scope.

    As for the Alliance and Horde races barely represented, I suggest you go replay the Jade Forest and do the Dominance Offensive/Operation: Shieldwall because you clearly weren't paying attention.

    In quest texts and patch notes and blue interviews you can find that nice story, but when you log into the game what you see will be pandas and Chinese theme dominating the PANDAria and the mists of PANDAria.
    Yeah, 5.1 (Alliance versus Horde) and 5.2 (The Mogu and Zandalari) were/are all about the Pandas. So was Townlong Steppes (The Yaungol and the Sha), Krasarang Wilds (AvH and the Mogu), and the Dread Wastes (The Mantid). Oh, wait, no, they weren't.
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  20. #340
    Quote Originally Posted by Knadra View Post
    I said it in a post earlier but as fun as MoP is interms of its design I find myself really looking back and craving a more traditional WoW setting. Whether it be Northrend or Outland or Cata etc. MoP just doesn't feel like WoW to me.
    I agree with this, MOP looks nice and everything, but what's next? A Russian themed Expansion ?

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