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  1. #381
    Quote Originally Posted by Venziir View Post
    Again, D&D (arguably the most Tolkienesque fantasy world there is, bar obviously the real Tolkien world) had Oriental Adventures I think it was called - with pandas and other asian creatures. And that's from '85, and the euro-fantasy wave didn't really start until the early 80's with Warhammer and D&D. And honestly, if you want a proper Tolkienesque world, then play another game. Warcraft stopped being proper Tolkienesque over 10 years ago really. But try Neverwinter, Warhammer Online, or obviously LOTRO if you want something a lot more... Stale and Tolkienesque. Or sign up for the Pathfinder Online beta. Heck, or even the TESO beta.

    Oh and yes, one can conclude that pandaren are just as fitting in a fantasy universe as say a dwarf - because it's all FANTASY, thus it's all fairy tales and random bollocks, there's absolutely no reason to wrap it up in thinly veiled xenophobic rubbish.[COLOR="red"]
    Fantasy in this context refers to a particular type, not anything you can imagine and paste in.

    If there was another game that had gameplay and a Tolkienesque world to my liking, I would have gone there already. Your point?

  2. #382
    Quote Originally Posted by killidan View Post
    How many people found Twilight Highlands to be similar to Scotland?
    Dwarves with woad warpaint, Highlands, Kilts at a Wedding... you'd have to be epically daft to not pick up on what part of the real world inspired the region.

  3. #383
    I'll never really take Pandarens as a serious race in WoW but I do like the Asian theme of Pandaria. Though it's a bit overkill with no real creativity. To me, Blizz just took historical and contemporary elements and slapped it onto Azeroth with a different name. To avoid infringement, they just changed names and what not. But for those who think Pandaria, Pandarens, and all in-between are directly reflective of Chinese culture or take it as if it truly is Chinese culture, don't let the game fool you. It's Asian THEMED.

  4. #384
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    Quote Originally Posted by killidan View Post
    Fantasy in this context refers to a particular type, not anything you can imagine and paste in.

    If there was another game that had gameplay and a Tolkienesque world to my liking, I would have gone there already. Your point?
    Oh trust me, if I truly told you my point... I'd most likely get an infraction.

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  5. #385
    Quote Originally Posted by Kathranis View Post
    Warcraft III was almost completely about two continents and a bunch of new races that had never even been mentioned in the previous games.

    Kalimdor and Northrend came completely out of nowhere. The night elves had never been hinted at in a decade of Warcraft games, yet are supposed to have been the most influential race on Azeroth's history.

    And you're complaining about a single expansion (life cycle: one and a half years, two years tops) revolving around a race and continent that has been mentioned countless times in the ten years since Warcraft III was released.
    Again, night elves, dwarves and such share a common universe before Warcraft. Pandas don't.

    Pandas were not mentioned COUNTLESS TIMES. Unless one has very limited counting skills. Given the posts in this forum, somehow I would believe that.

  6. #386
    Quote Originally Posted by killidan View Post
    If there was another game that had gameplay and a Tolkienesque world to my liking, I would have gone there already. Your point?
    Lord of the Rings Online, perhaps? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lord_of_the_Rings_Online

    It's even free to play.
    Professor of History at Silvermoon University

  7. #387
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    Quote Originally Posted by Venziir View Post
    5.1 basically turned Krasarang into Southern Barrens v.3. And give it time, MoP isn't over - Garrosh still has plenty of time to rage all over Pandaria.
    And about Stoneplow - note that it's the Sentinels and Sunwalkers who work together, both are factions well aware of the fact that we need to fight together now and then. Had it been humans or orcs, they surely wouldn't have to aid Stoneplow, or even if they would have, they would've turned at each other the moment after they'd saved the village.

    Like I said, I was expecting more of our own hero darkening oneself with the "pillage of Pandaria" 85-90. Yes, Krasarang took a big hit, and plunging a bunch of ruins in Kun-Lai, but not much to the inner part of Pandaren society. For example, like you said, if the main fleets were already here, it could be like the human kingdom of Guild Wars 1 (don't remember the name) and pretty much be Valley of the four craters, and nearly most of the landscape be sha-touched, or Garrosh to get all $$'s on the powers of the waters in the Vale. Hell, the shrines face each other, I'm surprised he hasn't put Goblin rockets on them yet and turned the Alliance's shrine into rubble (game mechanics aside).

    This war seems to dabble on the edges of Pandaren society, (aside the Jade serpent) like I said, I was hoping for extensive damage into the heartland of Pandaria, and less of "Chen Stormstout and the master to the rescue, *bashes 2 Mantid's heads in while chugging more ale*. The Sentinels and Sunwalkers could've helped, but even participate in some Guillaume warfare from the retreat of Stoneplow and widdle the forces down, not just stop a full fledged swarm by punching the innards of a colossus.
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  8. #388
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    Quote Originally Posted by AbalDarkwind View Post
    Lord of the Rings Online, perhaps? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lord_of_the_Rings_Online

    It's even free to play.
    Be careful of the shop though! Dang that shop is one evil cash-grabber.... "Want to learn to ride? PAY MEH!" "Want a horse to ride? PAY MEH!" "Want to look pwetty? PAY MEH!" "Want to play the fun classes? PAY MEH!".... Well that or grind those tokens, but that's more painful than eating pasta with ketchup for a month because you spend all your money on a poney for your hobbit.....

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  9. #389
    Quote Originally Posted by killidan View Post
    Again, night elves, dwarves and such share a common universe before Warcraft. Pandas don't.
    So what? The "common" universe is not the Warcraft Universe. Orcs can be scholars in WoW, not just murderous brutes. Elves can be devious and malicious in WoW, not infallible pillars of perfection. Dwarves can be crafty and cunning, not just in your face bruisers. WoW is not whatever universe(s) it borrows from.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-23 at 10:02 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by FiftyDKPMinus View Post
    Like I said, I was expecting more of our own hero darkening oneself with the "pillage of Pandaria" 85-90.
    The Alliance didn't go to Pandaria to pillage it. And despite Garrosh's intentions, when Nazgrim landed in Pandaria with his Horde forces, they had no intention of pillaging the continent either...

  10. #390
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    Quote Originally Posted by FiftyDKPMinus View Post
    Like I said, I was expecting more of our own hero darkening oneself with the "pillage of Pandaria" 85-90. Yes, Krasarang took a big hit, and plunging a bunch of ruins in Kun-Lai, but not much to the inner part of Pandaren society. For example, like you said, if the main fleets were already here, it could be like the human kingdom of Guild Wars 1 (don't remember the name) and pretty much be Valley of the four craters, and nearly most of the landscape be sha-touched, or Garrosh to get all $$'s on the powers of the waters in the Vale. Hell, the shrines face each other, I'm surprised he hasn't put Goblin rockets on them yet and turned the Alliance's shrine into rubble (game mechanics aside).

    This war seems to dabble on the edges of Pandaren society, (aside the Jade serpent) like I said, I was hoping for extensive damage into the heartland of Pandaria, and less of "Chen Stormstout and the master to the rescue, *bashes 2 Mantid's heads in while chugging more ale*. The Sentinels and Sunwalkers could've helped, but even participate in some Guillaume warfare from the retreat of Stoneplow and widdle the forces down, not just stop a full fledged swarm by punching the innards of a colossus.
    Oh it's not that I disagree, because I don't, but I also think that Stoneplow's "true" role was to show that not every member of the Alliance and Horde is interested in bloodshed and mayhem. But yes, I agree that we should start fighting in other zones too, but perhaps that'll happen in 5.3? What really puzzled me though, was that the Horde only deployed Orcs and Blood Elves, and that neither the Huijin or Kushui (I can never remember the name of the Alliance pandaren) weren't send to Pandaria either to help, or the fact that the Pandaren allies from Kun-Lai weren't deployed either. That seemed strange and annoying to me.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-23 at 11:04 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Constellation View Post
    So what? The "common" universe is not the Warcraft Universe. Orcs can be scholars in WoW, not just murderous brutes. Elves can be devious and malicious in WoW, not infallible pillars of perfection. Dwarves can be crafty and cunning, not just in your face bruisers. WoW is not whatever universe(s) it borrows from.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-23 at 10:02 PM ----------

    The Alliance didn't go to Pandaria to pillage it. And despite Garrosh's intentions, when Nazgrim landed in Pandaria with his Horde forces, they had no intention of pillaging the continent either...
    Nazgrim, despite his loyalty to Garrosh, is a character that intrigues me. I can't help but wonder if he'll truly support Garrosh in the end. The guy isn't a fanatic or a complete idiot.

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  11. #391
    Quote Originally Posted by Venziir View Post
    Try finding a pagoda in India, Mongolia or Asia Minor. And Buddhism isn't really the traditional religion of most Asian countries, most of them are Hindus, Muslim or Taoists/Daoists. That said, there's still a truckload of Buddhists obviously.
    One more time, this was never my point. Someone dragged it there, I responded, now another mopper dragging it along with more questions. Go back and read the post that was quoted in my previous post and you will see.

  12. #392
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    Quote Originally Posted by killidan View Post
    Again, night elves, dwarves and such share a common universe before Warcraft. Pandas don't.

    Pandas were not mentioned COUNTLESS TIMES. Unless one has very limited counting skills. Given the posts in this forum, somehow I would believe that.
    Do I really need to mention that D&D already did the whole "Euro Fantasy meets Asian Fantasy" back in '85 again?

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-23 at 11:06 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by killidan View Post
    One more time, this was never my point. Someone dragged it there, I responded, now another mopper dragging it along with more questions. Go back and read the post that was quoted in my previous post and you will see.
    If it wasn't your point, then why bother using it as an argument?

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  13. #393
    Quote Originally Posted by Venziir View Post
    ............. Are you honestly trying to claim that Metzen isn't involved in MoP? REALLY? Mother of every single God, that's just hilarious! He just voiced Thrall in the current patch, and you try to claim that he isn't involved? Did you not see Metzen at Blizzcon, defending MoP every time some random basement dweller derped up about KFP? The guy looked as if he was about to implode.

    Trust me, he's kneedeep in the game.
    You seem to know how much Metzen was involved in decision making process on the lore and the theme of MOP. Were you there? No.

    In Blizzcon, he was just a celebrity employee defending his employer. Was he supposed to say "yeah, I never wanted it to be pandas"?

  14. #394
    Quote Originally Posted by Venziir View Post
    Nazgrim, despite his loyalty to Garrosh, is a character that intrigues me. I can't help but wonder if he'll truly support Garrosh in the end. The guy isn't a fanatic or a complete idiot.
    Nazgrim strikes me as loyal because discipline calls for it. I'd like to see him being a prominent member of the resistance against Garrosh in the end, perhaps a martyr. That's what I'd like for him. It'd be a shame to build him up through previous expansions just to make him a dolt.

  15. #395
    Quote Originally Posted by killidan View Post
    Again, night elves, dwarves and such share a common universe before Warcraft.
    Why?
    because J. R. R. Tolkien?
    He is not involve with Warcraft in case you didn't notice that, actually he is dead...
    Again Pandren is in Warcraft 3.

  16. #396
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    Quote Originally Posted by killidan View Post
    You seem to know how much Metzen was involved in decision making process on the lore and the theme of MOP. Were you there? No.

    In Blizzcon, he was just a celebrity employee defending his employer. Was he supposed to say "yeah, I never wanted it to be pandas"?
    Metzen is obviously a very passionate guy, if he didn't like the idea of Pandaren, he wouldn't have acted like he did at Blizzcon. Besides, he already admitted that he was the guy who said to Samwise that he thought Pandaren were awesome and that he wanted to use them. Heck, Samwise said that too.

    And again - Metzen is the guy who writes ALL BLIZZARD GAMES STORY - therefor it's just pure freaking logic that he's involved in the process.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-23 at 11:10 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Constellation View Post
    Nazgrim strikes me as loyal because discipline calls for it. I'd like to see him being a prominent member of the resistance against Garrosh in the end, perhaps a martyr. That's what I'd like for him. It'd be a shame to build him up through previous expansions just to make him a dolt.
    Whatever his role, the Alliance guy (Taylor?) would have to do something similiar - or perhaps the exact opposite... Hmm.

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  17. #397
    Quote Originally Posted by Venziir View Post
    And yet, you act as if you do. Class act.

    However, we do know exactly what Metzen does and that he's charge of the story of every single Blizzard game.
    Doesn't mean much when one person cannot oversee several games, expansions, patches in any reasonable detail. It depends on whether he was involved in decision making for the lore/theme and whether he was even aware of how pervasive and dominant pandas and Chinese theme have become in MOP.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-23 at 10:11 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Venziir View Post
    You are about to win the "Best at Missing Points" award.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-23 at 10:11 PM ----------



    There was some prelude. AGAIN we had Chen mention the freaking place. We had Thrall dream of a "far away, mist shrouded continent" in his shortstory.

    And no, the only naitivity was that they assumed that people aren't scared of change.

    Chen was in where in WoW? Wrath? Cata?

    Yeah, I thought so.

  18. #398
    Quote Originally Posted by Venziir View Post
    Whatever his role, the Alliance guy (Taylor?) would have to do something similiar - or perhaps the exact opposite... Hmm.
    Ya, we'll see what happens with them. I found it funny seeing them make threats at each other in Binan hospital lol. "Im gona kick ur butt... as soon as I stop hurting everywhere"

  19. #399
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    Quote Originally Posted by killidan View Post
    Doesn't mean much when one person cannot oversee several games, expansions, patches in any reasonable detail. It depends on whether he was involved in decision making for the lore/theme and whether he was even aware of how pervasive and dominant pandas and Chinese theme have become in MOP.
    Urgh, by each post of yours, I'm getting closer and closer to pulling a Pierce Morgan....

    Being in charge of the story and lore for all the games, is obviously something that takes time, and obviously he isn't the only guy who writes or comes up with ideas, but he's still the main guy. He says so, and so does every other Blizzard employee. Honestly, go watch one of the (many) interviews with the guy.

    And of course he's aware of it, he's been with the company since they started on Warcraft 1.... Jeesh.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-23 at 11:14 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Constellation View Post
    Ya, we'll see what happens with them. I found it funny seeing them make threats at each other in Binan hospital lol. "Im gona kick ur butt... as soon as I stop hurting everywhere"
    I loved that bit! Only bit that really gets to me, is that Nazzy is wearing his Vashj'ir pants, instead of his General pants :S

    Amazing sig, done by mighty Lokann

  20. #400
    I absolutely hate it. It's disgusting to look at and that combined with the perpetual rape of warcraft lore in MoP made me quit. I could actually forgive the homogenization, the unending casualisation of the game, the dumbing down, the crappy easy mechanics, but when they took the lore, the design and world I loved and repeatedly raped it I had enough.

    The asian theme is disgusting. And to people saying "how is it different from anything else based on the real world", don't be stupid, not 1 expansion in WoW ever depicted actual landmarks from the real world and certainly did not dedicate its entire design to a poor cartoon parody of one select country. It's disgusting, and has nothing to do with fantasy. Shame, SHAME.

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