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  1. #501
    Quote Originally Posted by Malenurse View Post
    Are you a fan of Asian style expansion? To me atleast the chines style very irritating. Dont really like to play in Pandaria. Only playing alts and some lvl 90 pvp. The chines are just so not fitting to wow.
    I don't mind asian style, but they took it way too far with those pandas. I have AP to 31.3. this year and I haven't touched the game since new year. I just can't get back into game. I will cancel my sub ASAP when I can.

  2. #502
    Quote Originally Posted by AbalDarkwind View Post
    You don't pay attention to the story at all, do you? Deathwing has been a puppet of the Old Gods since the War of the Ancients. The Dragon Soul (Also known as the Demon Soul) was specifically created to help free the Old Gods from their prisons. The Elemental Lords were all servants of the Old Gods. The Naga, and Queen Azshara, were transformed into their current state by the Old Gods, and presumably up until now, served them. We saw several Forgotten Ones throughout the expansion. Iso'rath in Twilight Highlands and then Shu'ma and Go'rath in the Dragon Soul raid, and they are chief servants of the Old Gods. Hell, we had two Faceless generals in the Dragon Soul raid. Not to mention that Cho'gall was possessed by C'thun, an Old God.

    Yes, the villain of Cataclysm was Deathwing. If you had paid attention to the story at all, however, you would know who the real villains were. The subtext wasn't exactly deep in Cataclysm, either.

    As for TBC not being about whoever sent the Burning Legion...did you not play through Sunwell Plateau? Because the guy who sent the Burning Legion is the final boss of it, and by extension, the entire expansion. His name's Kil'Jaeden, I suggest you go read up on him: http://www.wowpedia.org/Kil%27Jaeden

    As for demons and undead not being "new" to WoW, neither were the Pandaren if we include The Frozen Throne. Even if we don't, Chen's Empty Keg is a real quest from the vanilla version of The Barrens: http://www.wowpedia.org/Chen%27s_Empty_Keg. Even after that, we had the Pandaren Monk pet that was revealed in Wrath of the Lich King.

    Finally, stop saying they copied a real world culture. Not only have several of posters already brought up the Vykrul, but several posters have attempted to explain to you that "Asia" isn't a culture. Neither is "Southeast Asia". Until you actually understand that, I will continue to bring it up.
    The more you write the more you expose yourself as not knowing $%@#. BC was not necessarily planned to have Sunwell. KJ was never the planned last boss and BC was NOT a KJ expansion. It was all about the Burning Legion. Illidan was promoted as the main villain all the way, until Blizzard realized they needed a filler tier 6.5. Sargeras is the man, not KJ. You may want to read as well lol.

  3. #503
    The Lightbringer leaks's Avatar
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    Haha, you guys are still going? No one has said anything new since page 2.
    "Terror, darkness, power? The Forsaken crave not these things; the Forsaken ARE these things."

  4. #504
    Quote Originally Posted by Shiny212 View Post
    No it's not, it's the only sensible observation to make. Not seeing it would be burying your head in the sand.
    NPC names, architecture, cooking recipes, Chinese script, tired of re-writing the same list...

    It is clearly the Chinese expansion. No doubt about it.

  5. #505
    Quote Originally Posted by killidan View Post
    BC added several million subs, MOP is losing them.
    First, TBC added several million because it was the first expansion and WoW was only two years old. Second, again, no, there has been a net gain in 600K subs after Cataclysm hemorrhaged 3 million subs. Since the math seems to elude you, let me spell it out.

    At MoP release: 9 Million Subs
    Q4 Analysis: Just over 10 million Subs
    Q1 Analysis: 9.6 million subs

    9.6 million > 9 million

    The more you write the more you expose yourself as not knowing $%@#. BC was not necessarily planned to have Sunwell. KJ was never the planned last boss and BC was NOT a KJ expansion. It was all about the Burning Legion. Illidan was promoted as the main villain all the way, until Blizzard realized they needed a filler tier 6.5. Sargeras is the man, not KJ. You may want to read as well lol.
    No, you don't know what you're talking about. When The Burning Crusade was first revealed in PC Gamer in August 2005 (Yeah, I was actually playing then!), the Sunwell Plateau was specifically mentioned as one of the raids they were planning. This was before even the Draenei had been revealed as the Alliance race. Secondly, Kil'Jaeden is the leader of the Burning Legion, and if you didn't know that, you haven't been paying attention. Illidan was opposed to the Burning Legion and was specifically in hiding from Kil'Jaeden, and if you had actually bothered to play and pay attention to The Frozen Throne, you would know that. Why would the entire expansion be about the Burning Legion, and then the final boss be Illidan, who is completely opposed to them? No, Illidan was always meant to be a red herring, you just missed the subtext, the build-up to the release of the expansion, and apparently, The Frozen Throne.

    Do you want further proof? Kael'thas specifically mentions that he's alive, and going to summon Kil'Jaeden after you defeat him in Tempest Keep. Tempest Keep was out before The Black Temple. He was foreshadowing the Sunwell Plateau and Magister's Terrace.

    Now, to address Sargeras...Sargeras has been out of commission since Warcraft I. He was banished when Anduin Lothar lopped off Medivh's head, who Sargeras had been possessing. Sargeras had absolutely nothing to do with Archimonde's invasion in Warcraft III, and he had absolutely nothing to do with the events that occurred in The Burning Crusade.

    Keep trying to call me out, and I will continue to show you just how ignorant of the lore you truly are.
    Last edited by AbalDarkwind; 2013-02-24 at 04:01 PM.
    Professor of History at Silvermoon University

  6. #506
    Quote Originally Posted by ragnarokvr1 View Post
    Nothing about crapdaria promotes Warcraft naturally, everything feels forced and out of sync with the rest of the game.

    I wouldn't mind crapdaria being its own game, crapdarens are cute and cuddly, but mixed with Warcraft is like listening to a song that stops at the 4th minute then resumes 3 minutes later (next expansion).

    I wish Samwise would've kept his trap shut, not everything he does is golden.
    I wish it were its own game and not forced down our throats. Samwise lost my respect not because he is a bad artist, he is a good one, but because of his lack of insight about pandas not fitting into WC universe.

    Part of it just may be politics within company, maybe he wanted more of a say in the game, maybe he had his agenda. Who knows?

  7. #507
    Quote Originally Posted by AbalDarkwind View Post
    First, TBC added several million because it was the first expansion and WoW was only two years old. Second, again, no, there has been a net gain in 600K subs after Cataclysm hemorrhaged 3 million subs. Since the math seems to elude you, let me spell it out.

    At MoP release: 9 Million Subs
    Q4 Analysis: Just over 10 million Subs
    Q1 Analysis: 9.6 million subs

    9.6 million > 9 million
    Just wait until all AP holders sub runs out... most of them will cancel sub. Me included.

  8. #508
    Scarab Lord nightfalls's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AbalDarkwind View Post
    At MoP release: 9 Million Subs
    Q4 Analysis: Just over 10 million Subs
    Q1 Analysis: 9.6 million subs
    A lot of the losses were due to dailycraft; if people quit because they hated the Asian culture they would not have bought MOP in the first place, because the cultural influence was fucking obvious on the game box, every advertisement in existence, beta, and word of mouth.

  9. #509
    Quote Originally Posted by Nagassh View Post
    Wah? The next patch's Dino-land stands on it's own two legs without drawing too heavily in the Asian themes just fine, sure the Mogu bits still have it - but the trolls and dinosaurs are pretty far removed.

    I doubt when we go and raid org to beat up Garrosh he'll be standing around in a rice paddy hat and a chinese dress either.

    I can understand people not liking the Asian thematics, but I find it hard to believe people are complaining about "oh woe is me the whole content has that theme!". Yeah, and? You'd prefer the TBC / Cata system where each zone is a complete mess with no ties?

    As it stands Pandaria is a nice, cohesive continent that actually feels like a proper place - if it was made of a collage of different thematic tones it would be a complete mess.
    TBC wasn't a mess. It had distinct zones on "another planet". It added millions of subs that MOP will never ever ever achieve. It had some favorite zones like Nagrand, epic ones like Hellfire. MOP zones will be another forgotten blip.

  10. #510
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    Quote Originally Posted by AbalDarkwind View Post
    Sylvanas conducts the Forsaken government in a very Facist manner. All of the Forsaken follow her unquestionably, similar to the Nazis and Adolf Hitler. She also wants to eliminate an entire race of people, namely Humans.
    All racial leaders are dictators if you will. All nations are monarchies, if you will. Sylvanas title is Queen, and not chancelor or President. She doesn't answer to a congress, she is the sole ruler.
    Her political motive is only to restore a solid nation and peace for her people. Her attacks against Gilneas have not been her choice. She was ordered to do so.
    She is up to something, that's for sure.. But I never seen her as being driven to eliminate all Humans. For all I know she wants to claim Lordaeron for her people.
    That, of course is in contradiction to the humans, who also claim Lordaeron as theirs. Neutrally seen. Both have a rightful claim.
    The living and the undead...

  11. #511
    Quote Originally Posted by AbalDarkwind View Post
    They did gain subs. They gained 1 million from Cataclysm. They lost 400K since then. That's still a net gain of 600K subs which is more than the subs of entire other games in the genre. Math's hard, I know.
    People were quitting at the end of Cata for three reasons. No content. No prospect of an epic WC expansion. Annual pass marketing trick ran its course.

    The millions of losses since MOP was announced are at least "in part" due to having crap lined up as the next expansion. The outrage in Blizzcon and people saying they will quit once Cata is over in forums.

    Many people hated MOP, including me, from the inception. We still bought it to give a fair assessment. Yet, it fell far short. Now after that we are quitting again, waiting for next Blizzcon.

    MOP had one of the WORST launches of any expansion losing subs soon after launch. Already bleeding as content is crap and copy-paste.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-24 at 04:05 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by VelmuVeera View Post
    I don't like the asian theme either tbh. I like asian culture to some extent but whole pandaria being a wannabe china is pretty annoying. It is indeed beautifully made but I've liked every other expansions themes better, though the pandaria areas are better than the cata ones. I liked tbcs scifi / high-fantasy theme the most even though I'm no fan of that kind of a stuff usually. I liked wotlks undead / nordic theme as well, though it wasn't as good as tbc. In cata I liked Vashj'ir and Deepholm to some extent but overall it was pretty meh.
    Asian culture is fine. It's the extent it dominates the continent and expansion. MOP is right now the worst for me, worse than Cata. That's quite a feat.

  12. #512
    Quote Originally Posted by Nagassh View Post
    Wah? The next patch's Dino-land stands on it's own two legs without drawing too heavily in the Asian themes just fine, sure the Mogu bits still have it - but the trolls and dinosaurs are pretty far removed.

    I doubt when we go and raid org to beat up Garrosh he'll be standing around in a rice paddy hat and a chinese dress either.

    I can understand people not liking the Asian thematics, but I find it hard to believe people are complaining about "oh woe is me the whole content has that theme!". Yeah, and? You'd prefer the TBC / Cata system where each zone is a complete mess with no ties?

    As it stands Pandaria is a nice, cohesive continent that actually feels like a proper place - if it was made of a collage of different thematic tones it would be a complete mess.
    Have you seen the preview of Throne of Thunder? It's Mogu/Chinese style everywhere. The Trolls are the only variety.

    Compare Wrath, you have the Vikings/Norse stuff, you have the Nerubian, you have the Taunka, Titan stuff, LK stuff, even human stuff (AT/Dalaran).

    In general, there is too much Chinese inspired content, an overdose if you will, and not enough variety.

    The sure indicator of that is when your player base is going, "Again!?".

  13. #513
    Quote Originally Posted by voidspark View Post
    Can you actually elaborate instead of just copy-pasting the words "copy paste" because honestly, I didn't feel over-dominated whatsoever nor was I aware the Asian culture was that immersed until I started reading these threads bitching about it.

    I mean sure, the NPC names are Chinese (some of them), and sure the expansion is obviously based on Asia, but I didn't feel I was breathing in Asian air while playing the game whatsoever.
    I elaborated over several pages in this very thread. Can you please go back and read? lol

  14. #514
    Titan Wildtree's Avatar
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    the 400k loss relates in my opinion to several factors, of which the asian/panda theme has no part of...

    1. The reputation gating, which makes the dailies a chore for many, and not a fun activity....
    2. The community behavior, which is on a constant decline and makes rather mature and mannered people quit.
    3. Blizzards obvious floating helpless by trying to please every minority that's just persistently crying enough... The game has atm no solid direction.
    4. The to 3 related constant changes and nerfs and buffs... I believe it is safe to say, that the vast majority just wants to play the game.
    When one has to constantly use online resources to check whether there are class and spec changes, people get fed up with it. The viewpoint: "I want to play a game, and don't want to have to take a science class on how to play it" is a very valid viewpoint, and does result in sub losses.

  15. #515
    Quote Originally Posted by voidspark View Post
    If you notice the argument every racist gives is that the culture they hate is "taking over," "dominating," "encroaching" and all that shit when in reality, they are just completely ignorant and closed-minded. Funny that those words are exactly the argument said "anti-Asian-culture" people are spewing / "copy pasting" in this thread over and over again.

    I do understand not everybody likes the theme of the expansion (not everyone in my guild does, for that matter), but some of the vitriol from these posters suggest there's more wrong in their heads than in the game.

    As for me personally I'm indifferent, really, I play the game for defeating boss mechanics, defeating players, and collecting achievement points. I really could care less what area of the world or media the game derives its culture from, so long actually playing the game feels like it did, I'd be fine.

    I honestly wasn't even aware of half of the Asian influences outside the obvious (names/location) until reading the crap people are posting here.
    We're not criticizing Asians, we are criticizing the game.

    You racism attack is merely a cheap shot at shutting down the discussion.

  16. #516
    Scarab Lord nightfalls's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by killidan View Post
    You racism attack is merely a cheap shot at shutting down the discussion.
    What discussion?

    Quote Originally Posted by killidan View Post
    I elaborated over several pages in this very thread. Can you please go back and read? lol
    This thread is 26 pages long, I'm not reading 25 pages, sorry, no. Especially when all I've read from what I did read are two words: "copy paste." I just leave with two arguments, both of which are obvious and have not been refuted at all:

    1) The majority of expansion "quits" are due to Blizzard's new grinding/dailies system.

    2) Actually playing the game and not whining about it doesn't really bring about "Asian overload" syndrome, a lot of the newer storylines have little/nothing to do with Asian-like culture whatsoever (read: Alliance versus Horde). Hell, the last raid of the expansion as announced is not on Pandaria, but is in Orgrimmar.

  17. #517
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    I love MoP's Asia theme. The rich colours, the music, the designs of buildings, forests, gardens... it's just beautiful.

  18. #518
    Quote Originally Posted by voidspark View Post
    Also, first example of idiocy and ignorance from the complainers: Notice that they all seem to chalk Pandaria to "China" despite the fact that it has influence from multiple Asian nations many of which have cultures distinctly different from Chinese culture.

    News flash: If MOP contains a blend of cultures from multiple Southeast/Northern/whatever Asian nations, it's not a "Chinese hegemony"

    I don't know that much of modern Chinese culture, but I'll wager MOP has very little actual similarity to it at all.
    Do you expect people to take you seriously when you conclude with an admission of you don't know what you are talking about? lol

    China dominates in the game. I did not see Indian names and script and recipes, but almost all Chinese. It is a China expansion.

  19. #519
    Quote Originally Posted by Numeanor View Post
    Just wait until all AP holders sub runs out... most of them will cancel sub. Me included.
    The Annual Pass started in October 2011. Most of the people who signed up have already either likely quit or are still with the game.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wildtree
    All racial leaders are dictators if you will. All nations are monarchies, if you will. Sylvanas title is Queen, and not chancelor or President. She doesn't answer to a congress, she is the sole ruler.
    Her political motive is only to restore a solid nation and peace for her people. Her attacks against Gilneas have not been her choice. She was ordered to do so.
    She is up to something, that's for sure.. But I never seen her as being driven to eliminate all Humans. For all I know she wants to claim Lordaeron for her people.
    That, of course is in contradiction to the humans, who also claim Lordaeron as theirs. Neutrally seen. Both have a rightful claim.
    The living and the undead...
    I don't want to turn this into a Forsaken thread, so I'll simply concede this.

    Quote Originally Posted by voidspark
    A lot of the losses were due to dailycraft; if people quit because they hated the Asian culture they would not have bought MOP in the first place, because the cultural influence was fucking obvious on the game box, every advertisement in existence, beta, and word of mouth.
    Agreed. The numbers after 5.2's release ought to give us a clearer picture as to the success of MoP.

    Quote Originally Posted by Killidan
    People were quitting at the end of Cata for three reasons. No content. No prospect of an epic WC expansion. Annual pass marketing trick ran its course.

    The millions of losses since MOP was announced are at least "in part" due to having crap lined up as the next expansion. The outrage in Blizzcon and people saying they will quit once Cata is over in forums.

    Many people hated MOP, including me, from the inception. We still bought it to give a fair assessment. Yet, it fell far short. Now after that we are quitting again, waiting for next Blizzcon.

    MOP had one of the WORST launches of any expansion losing subs soon after launch. Already bleeding as content is crap and copy-paste.
    First, don't claim you know why people left during Cataclysm. You are completely wrong about when the subs started to bleed away, anyways. Right after MoP was announced, along with the Annual Pass, and 4.3 came out with transmog and LFR, subs actually stabilized for a quarter. After that, they lost about another 1 million. Cataclysm had already lost 2 million subs before MoP had been announced. Most people actually claim that the final million that were lost was because of the banality of the Dragon Soul raid. It was easily the laziest raid Blizzard had created this side of Trial of the Crusader.

    After MoP came out, 1 million people came back. Since then, they have lost 400K of that. As voidspark has said, most of the complaints have been leveled at the insane amount of dailies required to gain reputation, not because the expansion has an Asian theme. I very much doubt that the 1 million people that came back all hated the Asian theme, but were going to "give it a chance" anyways. Most people who didn't like the theme just didn't buy the expansion. Your anecdote about your own experience isn't nearly convincing enough.
    Professor of History at Silvermoon University

  20. #520
    Quote Originally Posted by voidspark View Post
    A lot of the losses were due to dailycraft; if people quit because they hated the Asian culture they would not have bought MOP in the first place, because the cultural influence was fucking obvious on the game box, every advertisement in existence, beta, and word of mouth.
    Wrong. I did buy MOP and I hate pandas and the Chinese domination. A new expansion, people want to give it a fair shot and decide for themselves.

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