Mists of Pandaria Asian Chinese style expansion

[Yig]

i always felt the trolls felt more like mayans/aztecs other then the accents and voodoo stuff

---------- Post added 2013-02-22 at 09:16 PM ----------

Yeah, trolls totally have a Mayan/Aztec thing going on too in their ruins, originally that was exactly what they were. But at this point, Blizzard has used just about every culture in humanity that had massive primitive stone cities and ruins and incorporated them into the Trolls, except maybe Babylonian

But I would say they started out totally Mayan/Aztec with Zul'Gurrub, and Zul Aman, then they went Angkor Wat/Cambodian with Zul'drak. And they are going more with that vibe in MOP's troll content with a mixture of the Mesoamerican and the ancient Asian stone ruins.

[Chaochamp]

yeah because your the first person to ever only take pictures of one type of thing to make it seem like your right.

not like i could just do the same thing and make you look completely wrong

Okay. Prove me wrong. Go to Northrend, and give me pictures of recurring architecture, at least 1 to 2 pictures from each zone (they must all be consistent in style).

Oh you can't? Try Outla... wait what? You can't do that either? How about on EK/KD, surly there must be some.. oh?! There's not? Well I'd never.

[Yig]

Okay. Prove me wrong. Go to Northrend, and give me pictures of recurring architecture, at least 1 to 2 pictures from each zone (they must all be consistent in style).

Oh you can't? Try Outla... wait what? You can't do that either? How about on Azeroth, surly there must be some.. oh?! There's not? Well I'd never.

No, you could. In WOTLK, it was all Alliance style buildings and Horde bases in every single zone. In TBC, it was Blood Elf and Draenei architecture in every single zone. In Pandaria, it's the Mogu architecture and style the Pandaren adopted.

[Chaochamp]

No, you could. In WOTLK, it was all Alliance style buildings and Horde bases in every single zone. In TBC, it was Blood Elf and Draenei architecture in every single zone. In Pandaria, it's the Mogu architecture and style the Pandaren adopted.

I don't need words, I need pictures. All consistent. From each zone. (HINT: Sholazar/Blade's has you beat into a pulp)

[Khaza-R]

Okay. Prove me wrong. Go to Northrend, and give me pictures of recurring architecture, at least 1 to 2 pictures from each zone (they must all be consistent in style).

Oh you can't? Try Outla... wait what? You can't do that either? How about on EK/KD, surly there must be some.. oh?! There's not? Well I'd never.

You do realize there is Norse themes in every zone in Northrend with maybe the exception of Sholozar and ZD.

[Yig]

I don't need words, I need pictures. All consistent. From each zone. (HINT: Sholazar/Blade's has you beat into a pulp, among the mass of diversity in previous expansions)

I don't care what you need, I am not trying to change your mind. I am using you as an educational example for others, who don't require these arbitrary hoops to be jumped through.

It's by no means an issue that you are literally supposed to compare in such a literal way, counting on your little notepad.

For one, Northrend was a mostly wild and unpopulated continent, which is why you won't see much architecture there at all other than the bases of the Horde and the Alliance and their settlers, Scholazar has nothing but the Titan architecture like you see in the Stormpeaks or the huts of the murloc cousin people used in Borean Tundra, and Blade's Edge has a Night Elf settlement and a Horde camp reusing Orc and Mag'har assets and night elf assets, as well as yet another Goblin/Gnome camp just like you see in Netherstorm, which is all a bunch of Ethereal architecture and Dranei architecture.

You are simply focusing on Pandaren architecture because you don't like it.

[Justignoreme]

I don't need words, I need pictures. All consistent. From each zone. (HINT: Sholazar/Blade's has you beat into a pulp)

I think you are missing the point. Buildings in Pandaria are a style the Mogu introduced. They enslaved all indigenous races in Pandaria and destroyed their distinction. Pandaren build in the same style on account of not having any other construction method known. It's supported by the lore. Other continents might not be so uniform but other continents didn't have the same history in lore either.

[Chaochamp]

I don't care what you need, I am not trying to change your mind. I am using you as an educational example for others, who don't require these arbitrary hoops to be jumped through.

All I hear is: lalalalala i can't hear you.

I'm focusing on the Pandarian content because it lacks diversity, not an issue with previous expansions.

I think you are missing the point. Buildings in Pandaria are a style the Mogu introduced. They enslaved all indigenous races in Pandaria and destroyed their distinction. Pandaren build in the same style on account of not having any other construction method known. It's supported by the lore. Other continents might not be so uniform but other continents didn't have the same history in lore either.

Right, but in the end, that was all up to Blizzard. They chose to clutter the land with endless bamboo, not the characters of the game.

I WOULD LIKE TO CLARIFY: I have NO problem with the style itself. I do, however, have a problem with how often it is used.

[Yig]

All I hear is: lalalalala i can't hear you.

I'm focusing on the Pandarian content because it lacks diversity, not an issue with previous expansions.

You're projecting. Me ignoring your demand for screenshots while still offering a response is not ignoring you. It no more lacks diversity than all the Draenei ruins you see in every zone in Outland. And everybody who isn't close minded and stubborn acknowledges this.

[killidan]

I love the Asian theme. It's about time for it.
I don't see Asian players complaining that most races are European themed.

It's not about just races.

Scripts, architecture, cooking recipes, martial arts, temples and so on. Everything feels overwhelmingly Asian in MOP. Pandas are only a small part of it.

Probably I still would not like pandas as a race, even if they were not Chinese. I did not like pandas as a race, mostly because I think they have cute, cuddly "image", make the game feel childish and they used to be a joke that I never expected to be in the game as a playable race. The fact that pandas represent China is only part of the problem.

[Justignoreme]

Right, but in the end, that was all up to Blizzard. They chose to clutter the land with endless bamboo, not the characters of the game.

and there is a reason for it, and it makes sense. I mean really, what is it that you want? Orc huts? A fugly European castle in the middle of Pandaria? Criticism is fine; throw some ideas out since you think Blizzard is doing it wrong. How would you do it?

[Yig]

It's not about just races.

Scripts, architecture, cooking recipes, martial arts, temples and so on. Everything feels overwhelmingly Asian in MOP. Pandas are only a small part of it.

Probably I still would not like pandas as a race, even if they were not Chinese. I did not like pandas as a race, mostly because I think they have cute, cuddly "image", make the game feel childish and they used to be a joke that I never expected to be in the game as a playable race. The fact that pandas represent China is only part of the problem.

Every single race in this game is a JOKE race, and started out as nothing but an over the top drawing with a silly over the top voice actor talking in a funny voice. Warcraft has always been that way, since the first game. The serious tone of the lore and the storyline has always existed in a bubble of it's own, in a juxtaposition with the 4th wall breaking humor of Warcraft.

But calling the Pandaren a "joke race" while ignoring every race in this game was designed as a humorous spoof is just tunnel vision. Look at the voice acting for every race in this game in WC1-3.

[Chaochamp]

You're projecting. Me ignoring your demand for screenshots while still offering a response is not ignoring you. It no more lacks diversity than all the Draenei ruins you see in every zone in Outland. And everybody who isn't close minded and stubborn acknowledges this.

Oh boy, time for the ad hominem.

I feel that the ability to find recurring architecture within each and every zone proves the point that it is overused. Outland may have had too many Draenei structures, but it had a whole lot of diversity to make up for it. I cannot find the equal within Pandaria, though I would love to be proven wrong.

and there is a reason for it, and it makes sense. I mean really, what is it that you want? Orc huts? A fugly European castle in the middle of Pandaria? Criticism is fine; throw some ideas out since you think Blizzard is doing it wrong. How would you do it?

All I want is diversity on par with previous expansions, something Blizzard has proven they can do. I am not a game designer, so my ideas really wouldn't matter.

[Exorte]

I don't like how they based on entire continent on Asian/Chinese style, I agree its irritating.

Inb4 Northrend = viking themed, only Howling Ford and Storm Peaks are.

Asia is a continent in real world in case you did not notice...
Viking is not long lasting nor anywhere as large as a continent(where they mainly lived, I'm aware they raid lots of places) and it gets two zone all to itself.
The real problem is most people in the west have no idea about the rest of the world like Asia and Africa.

By the way, "Chinese/Han" zone is Jaded Forest and Valley of Four Wind and that is it, two zones just like Viking.

Edit: Han is 99% of the current China's population.

[Aquamonkey]

Oh boy, time for the ad hominem.

I feel that the ability to find recurring architecture within each and every zone proves the point that it is overused. Outland may have had too many Draenei structures, but it had a whole lot of diversity to make up for it. I cannot find the equal within Pandaria, though I would love to be proven wrong.



All I want is diversity on par with previous expansions, something Blizzard has proven they can do. I am not a game designer, so my ideas really wouldn't matter.

There are different styles across the whole continent. If you looked closely at your screencaps, you'd see this. You just lump everything in as the same architecture of "ZOMG Asian".

[Yig]

Oh boy, time for the ad hominem.

I feel that the ability to find recurring architecture within each and every zone proves the point that it is overused. Outland may have had too many Draenei structures, but it had a whole lot of diversity to make up for it. I cannot find the equal within Pandaria, though I would love to be proven wrong.



All I want is diversity on par with previous expansions, something Blizzard has proven they can do. I am not a game designer, so my ideas really wouldn't matter.

If anything, it was a tu quoque, not an ad hominem. Implying you're being close minded and stubborn was a response to you claiming I was sticking my fingers in my ears and ignoring you, while you completely ignored that I had posited a counter. But that would take ignoring my point to think it was fallacious.

But you have barely suggested what your point even is. What would the alternative be to your criticism? Brand new architecture, or no architecture?
WOW has always had a problem with resusing assets, and I think you're completely wrong to think Pandaria has crossed a line that wasn't already crossed many times over in the past.

It's not an ad hominem for me to say you are just focusing on Pandaren/Mogu architecture because you have a personal dislike for it. You are ignoring the degree to which Blizzard has always recycled architectural assets. Even their caves are often recycled for other caves. But at the same time, WOW was revolutionary in 2004 for not reusing their assets anywhere near the amount other MMOs of the time did, who would literally make 1 tree model for an entire zone which would be stamped side by side 1000 times in geometric patterns that were murder for the eye of anyone looking for aesthetic gratification. Blizzard blew the competition away in that regard, with dozens and dozens of individually places trees and shrubs and unique soil textures for almost every single zone in their game.

[jahasafrat]

The Asian theme isn't my favorite but I really don't have a problem with it. If the entire game was done in the archetypal medievel Europe high-fantasy style it would have gotten old a lot sooner than it did.

And then there are the Hozen who are... I guess an entire race of Frat Boys...

Haha, true, except Hozen aren't embarassing to be seen with in public.

[Yig]

All I want is diversity on par with previous expansions, something Blizzard has proven they can do.

This just isn't true and sounds like rose tinted glasses. Every expansion brings with it a few new assets which are then reused to the point of being nauseating if you're going to let it get to you. Blizzard actually went the extra mile, above and beyond, in MOP. With their high resolution terrain textures and actual modelling in their boulders and mountains with so many unique tree models in Krasarang and Jade Forest it's astonishing to me, all the while you're ignoring how far out their way they went in this regard because of the style of the buildings people live in.

[Justignoreme]

All I want is diversity on par with previous expansions, something Blizzard has proven they can do. I am not a game designer, so my ideas really wouldn't matter.

okay so, once more, what diversity? Horde territory in Outland was either Orcish or Blood Elf. Most Alliance territory in Outland was Draenei or Human. The only diversity that existed was projected Horde/Alliance architecture. Pandaria was isolated. Beyond the wall you see Mantid and Yaungol architecture at any rate and it's not "Asian"

[Chaochamp]

Just got out of the shower, time to address these posts I guess.

There are different styles across the whole continent. If you looked closely at your screencaps, you'd see this. You just lump everything in as the same architecture of "ZOMG Asian".

Lacking in quantities from previous expansions.

If anything, it was a tu quoque, not an ad hominem. Implying you're being close minded and stubborn was a response to you claiming I was sticking my fingers in my ears and ignoring you, while you completely ignored that I had posited a counter. But that would take ignoring my point to think it was fallacious.

But you have barely suggested what your point even is. What would the alternative be to your criticism? Brand new architecture, or no architecture?
WOW has always had a problem with resusing assets, and I think you're completely wrong to think Pandaria has crossed a line that wasn't already crossed many times over in the past.

It's not an ad hominem for me to say you are just focusing on Pandaren/Mogu architecture because you have a personal dislike for it. You are ignoring the degree to which Blizzard has always recycled architectural assets. Even their caves are often recycled for other caves. But at the same time, WOW was revolutionary in 2004 for not reusing their assets anywhere near the amount other MMOs of the time did, who would literally make 1 tree model for an entire zone which would be stamped side by side 1000 times in geometric patterns that were murder for the eye of anyone looking for aesthetic gratification. Blizzard blew the competition away in that regard, with dozens and dozens of individually places trees and shrubs and unique soil textures for almost every single zone in their game.

The only reason I'm arguing with you is because you said finding recurring architecture in each zone from previous expansions could be done.

No, you could.

You were wrong, and subsequently stuck your fingers into your ears.

I am focusing on the specific architecture because it can be found in each of the zones, varying, in mass quantities; not because I dislike it.

okay so, once more, what diversity? Horde territory in Outland was either Orcish or Blood Elf. Most Alliance territory in Outland was Draenei or Human. The only diversity that existed was projected Horde/Alliance architecture. Pandaria was isolated. Beyond the wall you see Mantid and Yaungol architecture at any rate and it's not "Asian"

I don't believe you ever asked about the diversity, but I'll still answer your question.

Outland had Zangamarsh, while little NE architecture is used in that zone, some buildings and places utilize the massive mushrooms in the zone. Blade's Edge, which has a completely diverse situation, with very little architecture other than the Gnomes', and also had interesting and new Ogre architecture. Netherstorm was completely unique, with the utilization of the Ethereals and their mysterious architecture.