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  1. #341
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    Quote Originally Posted by killidan View Post
    That's exactly what we want. Integrate new lore into Warcraft universe, not take over. Panda and Chinese domination on this expansion is way beyond any previous race or real world culture ever achieved.
    No, all you truly want is to stand on your box and shout.... Because if you'd stop that for just a minute, you'd see that the Pandaren lore isn't taking over, if it was they wouldn't even have bothered to add the whole Theramore incident, or drag the Horde and Alliance conflict to Pandaria - or make Garrosh the end boss.

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  2. #342
    Quote Originally Posted by Venziir View Post
    You are about to win the "Best at Missing Points" award.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-23 at 10:11 PM ----------



    There was some prelude. AGAIN we had Chen mention the freaking place. We had Thrall dream of a "far away, mist shrouded continent" in his shortstory.

    And no, the only naitivity was that they assumed that people aren't scared of change.
    You're good at saying stuff without any arguments.

  3. #343
    I absolutely love the Asian theme.
    As has been said earlier, a lot of different asian things are actually covered here, its not just ancient China.
    The scenery is gorgeous, the music is fantastic.
    Definitely the best expansion so far for me, both in implementation and in theme.

  4. #344
    Quote Originally Posted by haaku View Post
    I suggest you re-read what i wrote, it might grasp you then.

    Warcraft(1-3) is not wow, World of Warcraft is not wow, Novels is not WoW, everything together is wow. Panda exist yes, but it came out of nearly nothingness and one can argue that it was made especially for a fresh market e.g Asia.
    They overdid it for sure. We will see if the Chinese players like it. lol

  5. #345
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiteh View Post
    I agree with this, MOP looks nice and everything, but what's next? A Russian themed Expansion ?
    For some odd reason, all the current bosses (bar Whitemane and the Flame-guy) in SM are now Russian. No idea why.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-23 at 10:16 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by haaku View Post
    You're good at saying stuff without any arguments.
    Yes, because I have facts. If I didn't, I'd have to resort to using arguments.

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  6. #346
    Quote Originally Posted by killidan View Post
    That was definitely not smart.

    If there were some prelude to MOP in a previous expansion, some mention of a far away continent, some mention of pandaren, maybe even some NPC, it could possibly create some continuity in lore from Warcraft to Pandaria. It would set the expectation, it would prepare the players to a drastic change that takes the game away from Wacraft universe.

    It was an April Fool's joke and next thing we know they are announcing it as the whole continent and expansion. It was very clumsy and naive they thought that players will accept anything that comes out of Blizzard devs.

    True, in the end it's all a personal opinion whether they like the way blizzard introduced them or not, we're all just throwing ball now. Panda is undeniable a part of the lore, even if very small.

    let's not further derail the thread everyone

  7. #347
    Quote Originally Posted by Tackhisis View Post
    It is not a xenophobic thread. This is a legitimate complaint from European people who prefer normal Western settings, not this Asian mess. I thought WotLK was a nauseating expansion, but this one is the worst.
    People already point out how stupid your comment is, but I don't think they express why. Let me show you.
    It is like saying.
    I'm not racist, I just don't like black people (or immigrant) living in my town. My town has always been a culturally white town for a long time.
    Yeah...

  8. #348
    The Lightbringer Kathranis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by haaku View Post
    Warcraft(1-3) is NOT the lore, it's a part of it, it might have been the first, but it's just fragments of the whole puzzle.
    I really have no idea what you're getting at.

    I'm just saying that people who complain that "Pandaria came out of nowhere" are full of shit.

    Warcraft II introduced elves, dwarves, trolls, ogres, which had never been mentioned before.

    Warcraft III introduced Kalimdor, Northrend, night elves, tauren, Scourge, tuskarr, naga, murlocs, satyrs, pandaren, and most other races of Azeroth. It also completely retconned the established mythology by changing Heaven into the Holy Light, changing the daemons and Hell into the Twisting Nether and the Burning Legion, and introducing the Titans and Ancients and other deities.

    World of Warcraft spent three expansions playing around in the world set up by Warcraft III and dealing with loose plot threads from Warcraft II and III.

    Now World of Warcraft is elaborating on a race and continent introduced in Warcraft III and mentioned several times in World of Warcraft, and yet there are people who act like it "came out of nowhere" or somehow doesn't belong because it's got "new lore," rather than retreading the same old WCII+III stories over and over.


    And it's funny that you say the expansion is "all about the pandaren," when it's mostly about the Horde and Alliance war. It's more about the Horde and Alliance than even Cataclysm was.

    It's basically a story of the Horde and Alliance fighting on a previously undiscovered continent which has its own native inhabitants. Several of the zones are also far more focused on the sha and mantid (Old God-related) and the mogu (Titan-related) than the pandaren themselves.
    Last edited by Kathranis; 2013-02-23 at 09:24 PM.

  9. #349
    Quote Originally Posted by killidan View Post
    That's exactly what we want. Integrate new lore into Warcraft universe, not take over. Panda and Chinese domination on this expansion is way beyond any previous race or real world culture ever achieved.
    Bloody hell, Pandaria is not taking over anything. You really say this rubbish without thinking at all? I don't see Pandaren buildings popping up in Ashenvale. I don't see Pandaren scrolls plastering the walls of Stormwind, must more bigger and more obvious than anything else. Pandaren aren't turning Durotar into little Jade Forest and growing bamboo stands in the watershed... Pandaren are all over their home continent, one separated from the rest of the world for 10000 years. Each race has a unique style to them despite that, if you are expecting diversity in an isolated region with no exposure to the outside world until recent you are expecting ridiculous tripe. Get over it.

  10. #350
    Quote Originally Posted by killidan View Post
    That's exactly what we want. Integrate new lore into Warcraft universe, not take over. Panda and Chinese domination on this expansion is way beyond any previous race or real world culture ever achieved.
    no its not....its just another expansion with a new point of inspiration.
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  11. #351
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    Quote Originally Posted by Constellation View Post
    Bloody hell, Pandaria is not taking over anything. You really say this rubbish without thinking at all? I don't see Pandaren buildings popping up in Ashenvale. I don't see Pandaren scrolls plastering the walls of Stormwind, must more bigger and more obvious than anything else. Pandaren aren't turning Durotar into little Jade Forest and growing bamboo stands in the watershed... Pandaren are all over their home continent, one separated from the rest of the world for 10000 years. Each race has a unique style to them despite that, if you are expecting diversity in an isolated region with no exposure to the outside world until recent you are expecting ridiculous tripe. Get over it.
    You know what Const', despite your Night Elf zeal and "ELUNE IS NOT A NAARU RAAAAGE!" fits, I'm starting to like you :P

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  12. #352
    Quote Originally Posted by Venziir View Post
    People busy calling others immature truly OOZE OF MATURITY themselves.... Jesus Christ.... Seriously, bashing people like that, yes you are indeed the very pinnacle of maturity!

    And *You* were the one who mentioned quest text in the first place - Derp.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-23 at 09:45 PM ----------



    World of Warcraft isn't WoW? ......... Really? W.o.W stands for World of Warcraft, therefor I assure you; WoW is World of Warcraft. The overall term is the Warcraft Franchise, which includes everything Warcraft. And no, one cannot argue that it was made for a fresh asian market, when in fact the very idea of the Pandaren came from Samwise doodling panda creatures after being inspired by an old manga.
    Hey, I didn't bring up maturity, someone who loves MOP did.

    Nobody actually knows what went on inside the company when they were deciding what theme and lore to pursue in the expansion that became MOP. I would speculate that Activision corporation would be interested in increasing WoW's share in Chinese MMO market. I do not know WoW's reach in Chinese market, but probably not as high as in the West. They never released China sub numbers, only "East" sub numbers, which included Japan, Taiwan, Korea and perhaps other countries.

  13. #353
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    Quote Originally Posted by haaku View Post
    True, in the end it's all a personal opinion whether they like the way blizzard introduced them or not, we're all just throwing ball now. Panda is undeniable a part of the lore, even if very small.

    let's not further derail the thread everyone
    Aye, as with everything, it's a matter of opinion. And honestly, arguing back and forth isn't really going to solve anything. I won't change X's opinion and X won't change my opinion. I suppose the only thing that could really change anything (and I even doubt it would have any grand effect) would be if Blizzard themselves said "We did this because of X, Y and Z!" and that would just result in new shitstorms honestly.

    Amazing sig, done by mighty Lokann

  14. #354
    Quote Originally Posted by haaku View Post
    I suggest you re-read what i wrote, it might grasp you then.

    Warcraft(1-3) is not wow, World of Warcraft is not wow, Novels is not WoW, everything together is wow. Panda exist yes, but it came out of nearly nothingness and one can argue that it was made especially for a fresh market e.g Asia.
    This is BS.
    Sorry, but it really is.
    Specially the last statement. Prior to MoP, China has always been the largest market of WoW, over 50%. That doesn't count as "fresh market". In MoP, the % actually dropped.
    Also the Night elf, Tauren, Old gods, titans, etc. all come out of nothingness in WC2/3 just like Panadren. How is it any different.

  15. #355
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    Quote Originally Posted by killidan View Post
    Hey, I didn't bring up maturity, someone who loves MOP did.

    Nobody actually knows what went on inside the company when they were deciding what theme and lore to pursue in the expansion that became MOP. I would speculate that Activision corporation would be interested in increasing WoW's share in Chinese MMO market. I do not know WoW's reach in Chinese market, but probably not as high as in the West. They never released China sub numbers, only "East" sub numbers, which included Japan, Taiwan, Korea and perhaps other countries.
    "Someone who loves MOP" did.... Sigh. Grow up.

    They might not have released the China sub numbers, but I'm fairly sure that we saw that subs dwindeled specifically in China during Cataclysm and a month ago or so.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-23 at 10:24 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Exorte View Post
    This is BS.
    Sorry, but it really is.
    Specially the last statement. Prior to MoP, China has always been the largest market of WoW, over 50%. That doesn't count as "fresh market". In MoP, the % actually dropped.
    Also the Night elf, Tauren, Old gods, titans, etc. all come out of nothingness in WC2/3 just like Panadren. How is it any different.
    Not to mention, that South Korea is a country that plays Blizzard games as national sports, yet why isn't there a South Korean expansion? Surely, they'd want to grab the last few percentages of the S. Korean people, or pay homage to their biggest fans. And yet, there isn't....

    Amazing sig, done by mighty Lokann

  16. #356
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    Quote Originally Posted by Immitis View Post
    i wonder how many people wouldve been going "ER MAH GERD ASIA" if the expansion was all about night elves
    Ok, so let's see. Current night elf food and some building style seems somehow japanese or south korean.

    Now, that that's done, please show me the asian druids (they need to be as closest to the celtic druids just as an example, so you don't think I'm asking for actual druids), show me where do asians build marble structures resembling greek temples or where are they lead by priests. Tell me how are night elves as looks similar to any type of even asian stereotype (because we all know that asian people are tall and have muscular women, right?).

    I could go on and on... but this is not the idea, what I wanted to show is that the night elves aren't japanese clones. They are a mesh of different cultures.

    Now let's look at the pandaren and Pandaria:
    -the pandaren themselves are a bad stereotype. The media talks about how the chinese work to protect their pandas and there's death penalty and stuff, seriously, the panda is like the best known animal from China because of stuff like this. But hold on, we're not done, for the pandaren are using this balance of emotions thing (which reminds a lot of some ancient and medieval religions around there) so they can balance the evil of said negative emotions.
    - the pandaren are mostly farmers and like to drink... yea, as I said, a bad stereotype, basically how many see China.
    - asian music, buildings
    - asian dragons, myths
    - the theme of being invaded by foreigns (colonization of China) that want the resources and stuff but they wreck the balance of the land unleashing terrible evils (if you don't know, for example, one of the complaints of the chinese when the UK got there was when they started building railroads, since they said the metal that held the rails down was beat into the earth and angered the great dragon resting under... a superstition, but seems familiar, does it not?)
    - the great wall stopping foreign invaders
    - the great mountains
    - all the jokes!
    Pandaria and the pandaren are not a mesh of different cultures. They're a mesh of real eastern asian myths and asian stereotypes. And I dislike that.
    But to say night elves are the same that they're relying on asian (japanese) influences so much as pandaren is just being ignorant. Sure, you could argue tauren are native americans in many ways, I could agree with that, their culture has very little meshing with other parts of the world but to argue night elves are full asian...

  17. #357
    Quote Originally Posted by Venziir View Post
    Not to mention, that South Korea is a country that plays Blizzard games as national sports, yet why isn't there a South Korean expansion? Surely, they'd want to grab the last few percentages of the S. Korean people, or pay homage to their biggest fans. And yet, there isn't....
    there's kimchi references in WoW, clearly they are trying to dominate the entirety of WoW's storyline with Korean culture D:
    Quote Originally Posted by Venziir View Post
    You know what Const', despite your Night Elf zeal and "ELUNE IS NOT A NAARU RAAAAGE!" fits, I'm starting to like you :P

  18. #358
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    Quote Originally Posted by Constellation View Post
    there's kimchi references in WoW, clearly they are trying to dominate the entirety of WoW's storyline with Korean culture D:
    THE BASTARDS! Soon all races will be dancing Gangnam Style and all the buildings will be turned into either parking lots or stables!

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  19. #359
    Quote Originally Posted by killidan View Post
    We did not have World of Old Gods or Continent of Old Gods. Your point is moot. It was a small mention in Warcraft, as I take your word for it, and it had limited stoyline in WoW. It did not take over the game. Unlike pandas.
    Um...yeah, we did. It was called Cataclysm. Just because the Old Gods weren't physically there doesn't mean that the entire expansion wasn't about them. In fact, it was only specifically about one of them: N'Zoth. Deathwing was just his puppet, as seen in the Madness of Deathwing encounter.

    I mean, this is basically like complaining that The Burning Crusade had too many demons or that Wrath of the Lich King had too much of the undead.
    Professor of History at Silvermoon University

  20. #360
    Quote Originally Posted by killidan View Post
    That was definitely not smart.

    If there were some prelude to MOP in a previous expansion, some mention of a far away continent, some mention of pandaren, maybe even some NPC, it could possibly create some continuity in lore from Warcraft to Pandaria. It would set the expectation, it would prepare the players to a drastic change that takes the game away from Wacraft universe.

    It was an April Fool's joke and next thing we know they are announcing it as the whole continent and expansion. It was very clumsy and naive they thought that players will accept anything that comes out of Blizzard devs.
    There was.... hints in thrall's Novel (dream about a land shroud by mist. Wonder where is that, huh?). In Warcraft 3 the mission founding of Durotar, Rexxar, thrall and other meet Chen Stormstout who mention Pandaria. In a quest chain in WoW http://www.wowhead.com/quest=819/chens-empty-keg... <- Chen Stormstout's keg quest added in patch 1.11.1, that is classic by the way.

    Chen Stormstout is a Pandren brewmaster if that is not clear.

    I guess that is why this time the hint is directly embedded in the Legendary quest line.

    Edit:http://youtu.be/gTpKsEw9fvM?t=6m53s <- Rexxar meeting Chen
    They did recon a part which is Chen Stormstout is from Pandaria. In WoW, he is from the wondering isle.
    Last edited by Exorte; 2013-02-23 at 09:49 PM.

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