Furbolgs and Pandaren

[Trassk]

Its been wondering this since pandaria had been accounched, and I find it kind of comical when you look at it.

These are Furbolgs:



Somewhat derpy looking, primative bear people who live in small tribal packs and seem to be aggressive to any outsides.



And these are pandaren. A race of highly evolved bear people with are scholars, monks, teachers, they have an advanced langauage and culture, and probably one of the most socially advanced race on azeroth.


So, Furbolgs, kind of primative and living in logs.
Pandaren, highly advanced and builders of great cultural empires.


I realize the reason for this comes from the whole myth of the waters of the vale. But I have to wonder, much like how night elves evolved from trolls from the well of eternity, why then didn't the furbolg evolve into a more intelligent and advanced race, on par with the pandaren? They obviously must have been just bears at one stage thousends of years before, and the well evolved them into bear people, but still... they seem kind of... half advanced?

[Españolator]

Probably the mogu were behind, speeding up the evolution whilst the furbolgs did not have such a sadistic enemy meaning that they didn´t endure as much as the pandaren.

[Kuragalolz]

Well actually the Pandaren built nearly nothing in Pandaria, they are using the rests of the Mogu civilisation.
Furbolgs doesn't seem to be stupid at all in Draenei's starting quests, they chosed a different way to live that's all.

[Khaza-R]

I imagine Furbolgs haven't advanced much because they're stuck in a "hunter/gather" stage within the wilds of Kalimdor. There doesn't seem to be much suitable farmland in Kalimdor and the predators and competition seem to be more fierce than on other continents in WoW.

The Pandaren seemed to have the advantage of having the fertile fields of the Valley of the Four Winds. Which let them develop agriculture and advance faster.

[Pebrocks The Warlock]

Well actually the Pandaren built nearly nothing in Pandaria, they are using the rests of the Mogu civilisation.
Furbolgs doesn't seem to be stupid at all in Draenei's starting quests, they chosed a different way to live that's all.

Actually, they did build all of it. The Mogu enslaved the Pandaren and used them to build their civilization.

[checking facts]

it's simple: the furbolgs never touched the well of eternity. the well was put there by the titans to help the whole of azeroth in a slow process of evolution. since the dark trolls/night elves decided to actually tap on it's power actively, the process accelerated on them.

[Trassk]

Well actually the Pandaren built nearly nothing in Pandaria, they are using the rests of the Mogu civilisation.
Furbolgs doesn't seem to be stupid at all in Draenei's starting quests, they chosed a different way to live that's all.

The pandaren were the slaves who built the mogu's structures.

[Kuragalolz]

Actually, they did build all of it. The Mogu enslaved the Pandaren and used them to build their civilization.

But they didn't conceived it.

[Darmalus]

But they didn't conceived it.

The original Pandaren civilization was wiped out to the last. The Mogu saw them as a threat, and thus destroyed every book, every stick and stone they had ever built. They even wiped out the original language by killing anyone who dared speak it. We have no idea what that civilization was like, but whatever it was scared the Thunder King enough to make sure it could never rise again.

So of course everything they do now is related to the Mogu. They had to start over from square Mogu.

Edit: This is revealed in the 5.2 areas.

[Shampro]

But they didn't conceived it.

They did conceived it, everything that has a mogu statue was build by Pandaren slaves before they rebeled and became monks. When they brought down the Mogu empire, they just took what they build as thier own.

[Kuragalolz]

They did conceived it, everything that has a mogu statue was build by Pandaren slaves before they rebeled and became monks. When they brought down the Mogu empire, they just took what they build as thier own.

Nope, it's like the Great wall of China, it has been constructed by several slaves and workers, but they do not conceived it, same for pyramids, for example, the pyramid of Saqqarah, it has been constructed by several workers, but the conceiver of the pyramid was Imhotep (Djoser's architect), not the workers.

[bionics]

So, Furbolgs, kind of primative and living in logs.
Pandaren, highly advanced and builders of great cultural empires.


I realize the reason for this comes from the whole myth of the waters of the vale. But I have to wonder, much like how night elves evolved from trolls from the well of eternity, why then didn't the furbolg evolve into a more intelligent and advanced race, on par with the pandaren? They obviously must have been just bears at one stage thousends of years before, and the well evolved them into bear people, but still... they seem kind of... half advanced?

For the same reasons that there are today industrialized societies yet also people that still live in what we would consider a primitive state; location in the world, cultural upbringing, isolationist factors, etc.

Except we're talking solely about homosapiens; we don't know how closely related Pandaren and Furlbogs are or if they even came from the same antecedent, do we? Except for the fact that they are both ursid and share similar features -- they could be as distantly related as the great auk and an emperor penguin, who look very similar to one another.

[Darmalus]

The Furbolg live in the shadow of the Night Elves, and we all know how protective the Night Elves are of their land and resources. It's no wonder the Furbolgs never get anywhere when they have to survive on the unwanted scraps the Night Elves won't kill you for taking.

[Golden Yak]

I realize the reason for this comes from the whole myth of the waters of the vale. But I have to wonder, much like how night elves evolved from trolls from the well of eternity, why then didn't the furbolg evolve into a more intelligent and advanced race, on par with the pandaren? They obviously must have been just bears at one stage thousends of years before, and the well evolved them into bear people, but still... they seem kind of... half advanced?

I believe that canon research on behalf of Brann Bronzebeard indicated that the furbolg descend from the bear demigods Ursoc and Ursol, while the pandaren predate them and may have come from a different demigod.

http://img809.imageshack.us/img809/8513/ianwow018.jpg

So they may not have had any meaningful contact with the Well's waters.

[Justignoreme]

What we know of Pandaren is they were advanced prior to the Mogu. They had a vibrant and unique culture as well as their own language and scholars and beliefs. The Mogu enslaved them, murdered the scholars, destroyed their unique culture and forced their ways and wills upon them (and everyone else in Pandaria at the time). When the Pandaren rebelled the Celestials aided them, and became the new "deities" Pandaren revered and worshiped. Current Pandaren is more or less a dialect of Mogu.

[Raugnaut]

A) Quite a bit of pandaren "culture", in terms of architecture, buildings, are based on old Mogu buildings left after the rebellion. The majority of "current" Pandaren buildings are rather simple in comparision to the grandstyle that the Mogu used (Big, imposing, and at the same time, graceful and beautiful buildings). Most of the Pandaren culture can be found in the Valley of the Four Winds- simple buildings, simple farming lifestyle. You must also remember that they both live in highly different terrain/climates. Furbolgs are found almost entirely in forests. Pandaren live mostly in the plains.

Generally, civilations advance for reasons- take the Americas, which, while various peoples were advanced in thier own ways (Aztecs, who were slavers, the, what were they, Incas?), weren't anywhere near as advanced in chemistry/metallurgy. Even IF the indigenous people DIDNT get decimated by the european diseases, they would have eventually been overwhelmed by the huge technological/industrial differences. However, both of the indigenous peoples, Aztecs/Incas, had been existing at the top for, from my understandings, centuries, whereas the Europeans were a relatively new group of cultures, diffusing and each gaining thier own power after the fall of the Roman Empire. Since the Aztecs/Incas didn't really have any competition, they stagnated and didn't advance anywhere near as much. However, I don't think there was ever ONCE "peace" in the european powers- their technologies greatly advanced due to the extreme competition (If you didn't keep up with the rest, you would be conquered, lands taken, people brutalized) so the Europeans acquired a significantly greater amount of both industrial power, and military power.

The Furbolgs are more akin to the northern american natives. They operate mostly in peace, each tribe keeps to each other. Even with that, during the War of the Ancients, and, I believe, the War of the Shifting Sands, the Furbolgs, united, were a force to be reckoned with. The Pandaren, however, are mostly a vestige shoot-off from the time of the Mogu, who were EXTREMELY advanced- they are the ONLY race, besides the Titans/Old Gods (Who are more gods then a race), who have created other races (Saurok). The majority of the LARGE architecture in Pandaria is of Mogu design. (Mogu'shan Palace, the Serpents Spine. I THINK that the 4 temples are of Mogu design as well, not sure on that.) Most of what the Pandaren have are simple wooden buildings, with some monastaries here and there. Pandaren are mostly a farming race. Heck, the Jinyu can be considered to be more advanced then the Pandaren are- thier stonecarving capabilities allow them to build houses that seems like they where shaped from solid stone.

So, yea- The furbolg are actually quite advanced in thier own ways- and thier power with nature means that they don't HAVE to be as technologically advanced as other races, they still have significant fighting force. They have also been on very good terms with the Night Elves, the dominant race in the area.

[Justignoreme]

Generally, civilations advance for reasons- take the Americas, which, while various peoples were advanced in thier own ways (Aztecs, who were slavers, the, what were they, Incas?), weren't anywhere near as advanced in chemistry/metallurgy. Even IF the indigenous people DIDNT get decimated by the european diseases, they would have eventually been overwhelmed by the huge technological/industrial differences. However, both of the indigenous peoples, Aztecs/Incas, had been existing at the top for, from my understandings, centuries, whereas the Europeans were a relatively new group of cultures, diffusing and each gaining thier own power after the fall of the Roman Empire. Since the Aztecs/Incas didn't really have any competition, they stagnated and didn't advance anywhere near as much. However, I don't think there was ever ONCE "peace" in the european powers- their technologies greatly advanced due to the extreme competition (If you didn't keep up with the rest, you would be conquered, lands taken, people brutalized) so the Europeans acquired a significantly greater amount of both industrial power, and military power.

You overstate the technology gap between the two peoples, ignore the logistics aspect of only a limited amount of resources could be shipped across the ocean while the Aztecs had a home advantage, and also fail to realise that the New World was embroiled in just as much warfare as the old World. Aztecs were always at war with their neighbours and expanding their power. Disease was what gave the Spanish an upperhand against them. Not entirely related but, needed to be pointed out.