5.2 Fire

[s315h1n]

I'm not sure how I feel about PoM anymore since it lowers Ignite, especially when it doesn't crit.

* How does PoM+Pyro lower our Ignite damage? Ignite tooltip says it is not based on crits, and new ignites add to the damage.

* What should we be aiming for in ignite damage per tick before hitting combustion? At what point is it worth waiting for a higher ignite tick? Is it better to just cast as often as possible?

* I like the Combustion glyph because it lines up PoM and Combustion cooldowns. If PoM does somehow lower Ignite would it be better to go unglyphed Combustion so that if you mess up you get more chances to get a high Ignite tick?

[elpadrino293]

* How does PoM+Pyro lower our Ignite damage? Ignite tooltip says it is not based on crits, and new ignites add to the damage.

pom+pyro CAN lower the damage on the ignite if it does not crit. if it does crit, it CAN raise the damage.

at work at the moment, can't check my notes, but i want to say it was 87k ignites that gave 1mil damage single target combustions. i would shoot for at least half that, 43.5k ticks, before using combustion.

always glyph it, if you do not have a decent ignite, do not use combustion.

[s315h1n]

pom+pyro CAN lower the damage on the ignite if it does not crit. if it does crit, it will raise the damage.

This seems like you're arguing semantics. It's not lowering the damage, it's just not as much damage as two crits. Which is obvious. If I'm wrong then HOW is it lowering damage?

[elpadrino293]

This seems like you're arguing semantics. It's not lowering the damage, it's just not as much damage as two crits. Which is obvious. If I'm wrong then HOW is it lowering damage?

no, it is not semantics. your ignite can easily go from ~100k to ~75k if that pom+pyro does not crit, which is a significant reduction. but if the pom+pyro crit, that ~100k ignite can just as easily be a ~115k ignite, and possibly reward an additional !pyroblast which could also potentially crit and make it a ~140k ignite. regardless, that fact remains that when our beloved !pyro is not available, pom+pyro is still the next best option to potentially raise the ignite value, and by a very large margin.

[s315h1n]

no, it is not semantics. your ignite can easily go from ~100k to ~75k if that pom+pyro does not crit, which is a significant reduction. but if the pom+pyro crit, that ~100k ignite can just as easily be a ~115k ignite, and possibly reward an additional !pyroblast which could also potentially crit and make it a ~140k ignite. regardless, that fact remains that when our beloved !pyro is not available, pom+pyro is still the next best option to potentially raise the ignite value, and by a very large margin.

You still didn't answer how. =\

Let me explain what you're doing. You're saying that you can fly. I'm asking how you can fly. You answer by saying you can easily go from 0 meters to 1000 meters. I'm asking again how you can do that. That is where you tell me that you're flying an airplane. An airplane is how you can fly.

So what mechanic is causing you to go from 100k to 75k?

[Rinoa]

Read up on how Ignite works. If you google it I'm sure you'll get it right away.

@s315h1n :-)

[elpadrino293]

You still didn't answer how. =\

Let me explain what you're doing. You're saying that you can fly. I'm asking how you can fly. You answer by saying you can easily go from 0 meters to 1000 meters. I'm asking again how you can do that. That is where you tell me that you're flying an airplane. An airplane is how you can fly.

So what mechanic is causing you to go from 100k to 75k?

click on my the green elpadrino293, hover over View Forum Posts, and then click that, read everything, and then you will learn how to fly.

[s315h1n]

Neither of the two above posts were helpful at all. Of course I've done a google search and found nothing. Only people saying it can happen, not how. I've been shooting at target dummies with and without PoM and each time I do Pyro!+PoM+Pyro = Higher ignites. This is a mix of crits and non-crits. Which is why I'm wondering how exactly does it lower the damage.

[elpadrino293]

Neither of the two above posts were helpful at all. Of course I've done a google search and found nothing. Only people saying it can happen, not how. I've been shooting at target dummies with and without PoM and each time I do Pyro!+PoM+Pyro = Higher ignites. This is a mix of crits and non-crits. Which is why I'm wondering how exactly does it lower the damage.

when it is pyro!+pyro!+pyro!+PoMPyro and that pom doesn't crit is when you see the big decline

[s315h1n]

Oh, I see. You must always get strings of three pyro! exactly when you have Combustion and PoM off cooldown. You must base the entirety of your spec around getting 3 Pyro! then Combusting.

[Polarthief]

* How does PoM+Pyro lower our Ignite damage? Ignite tooltip says it is not based on crits, and new ignites add to the damage.

The extra global it takes to cast the Pyro. You might lose a third of your previous Ignite for this new, probably shitty one.

no, it is not semantics. your ignite can easily go from ~100k to ~75k if that pom+pyro does not crit, which is a significant reduction. but if the pom+pyro crit, that ~100k ignite can just as easily be a ~115k ignite, and possibly reward an additional !pyroblast which could also potentially crit and make it a ~140k ignite. regardless, that fact remains that when our beloved !pyro is not available, pom+pyro is still the next best option to potentially raise the ignite value, and by a very large margin.

How in the fuck are your Ignites that big?????

I've been practicing since I just went back to Fire and the best Combustion I've gotten is ~25k (which is a 50k Ignite).

My Mastery is only 15%, sure, but I've heard people with 19% getting 100-150k Ignites.

[S31Ender]

EDIT: This was partially answered while I was writing this....

Neither of the two above posts were helpful at all. Of course I've done a google search and found nothing. Only people saying it can happen, not how. I've been shooting at target dummies with and without PoM and each time I do Pyro!+PoM+Pyro = Higher ignites. This is a mix of crits and non-crits. Which is why I'm wondering how exactly does it lower the damage.

I can answer it, but I can't back up my answer. Maybe someone else knows the source. (Method's firemage guide mentions it but I don't know his source) But as I understand it, a hotstreak pyroblast generally will hit harder than a non-hotstreak pyro. PoM-Pyro thus would hit less than a hotstreak hit, and critdamage less than a hotstreak crit.

If you already have a strong ignite rolling, if you CRIT with a pom-pyro it would most likely increase your ignite well, but if you fail to crit, it could possibly even lower it.

As I think of it, assuming you don't get any crits to grant more hotstreaks, which you usually will, ignite is 4 seconds so if you do all of the below, you'll be reaching the end of that ignite for your combust. That hotstreak you nailed at the beginning is in risk of not even counting. The lower damage Pom-Pyro's are bringing your ignite down, especially when you factor in that you'll usually get extra hotstreak procs during that rotation to burn.
Hotstreak
POM/AlterTime macro
PomPyro
Altertime
Hotstreak
Pompyro
Combust



Someone correct me if I'm wrong here, and I know my "math" isn't exact, it's just for "explanation's sake"

[Lobstarrr]

You still didn't answer how. =\

Can shoot me if i got it wrong, will try anyway.

I think ignite was changed after cata (Rest in peace infinite combust spreading, i miss you so much) .

Ignite ticks a few times, so if you crit once and you do another spell that doesn't crit (ignite will have ticked by now), the damage left on your ignite will be lower at that point than when you just critted. = lower combustion damage.

[Polarthief]

Can shoot me if i got it wrong, will try anyway.

I think ignite was changed after cata (Rest in peace infinite combust spreading, i miss you so much) .

Ignite ticks a few times, so if you crit once and you do another spell that doesn't crit (ignite will have ticked by now), the damage left on your ignite will be lower at that point than when you just critted. = lower combustion damage.

^, though in addition, HS Pyros deal 25% more damage. PoM Pyros don't get that bonus.

[Deleted]

you cannot lower ignite damage, because it is a stacking debuff with a duration (many ignite parts with different durations). what you are talking about are the ending ignite parts which dont contribute to the next ignite tick anymore.
thus if your next pyro generates a lower ignite than the ending ignite, your next ignite tick will be lower.

[Lobstarrr]

you cannot lower ignite damage, because it is a stacking debuff with a duration (many ignite parts with different durations). what you are talking about are the ending ignite parts which dont contribute to the next ignite tick anymore.
thus if your next pyro generates a lower ignite than the ending ignite, your next ignite tick will be lower.

Right, what people are confusing i guess is that your previous ignite doesn't "Refresh + new ignite added in starting all over" so to say. But i guess that was changed because of the unreal ignites on alysrazor / other stuff.

[KoolKidKaos]

Ugh, I didn't want to go arcane, it grew on me, now I love it and think fire is too boring. Now fire will be the go to spec after gearing for Arcane for 3 months. Sigh...leave us poor wizards aloooooone. lol

[spaace]

"will make your next Pyroblast spell instant cast, cost no mana, and deal 25% additional damage."

This is how a POMPyro non crit will lower your ignite damage. (possibly even a crit)

[S31Ender]

"Hotstreak will make your next Pyroblast spell instant cast, cost no mana, and deal 25% additional damage."

This is how a POMPyro non crit will lower your ignite damage. (possibly even a crit)

Fixed for ya.
Clarified that HOTSTREAK is the spell that increases 25 percent. If you read it the way you posted it seemed like you were talking about pom-pyro, and then contradicted yourself.

[elpadrino293]

The extra global it takes to cast the Pyro. You might lose a third of your previous Ignite for this new, probably shitty one.

How in the fuck are your Ignites that big?????

I've been practicing since I just went back to Fire and the best Combustion I've gotten is ~25k (which is a 50k Ignite).

My Mastery is only 15%, sure, but I've heard people with 19% getting 100-150k Ignites.

i have 16.5k in possible intellect procs, warrior crit banner, and even tricks sometimes if the rogue(s) have it available when i call out for banners. then most importantly, i try really hard to get successive critical strikes, literally everything i can do, which is of course nothing. additionally every other combustion is under the effect of a troll berserking, so i'm adding to my ignite pool a little faster (1.11 sec GCDs opposed to 1.33 sec). 3 pyroblasts in 3.33 sec as opposed to 4.00 sec, and i really believe the 2/3 of a second helps a lot by saving a fraction of my ignite pool.

---------- Post added 2013-02-24 at 09:58 PM ----------

You must base the entirety of your spec around getting 3 Pyro! then Combusting.

isn't this the idea? not exactly 3, more like ~5-7, but yes... get a huge ignite, and then use combustion. other than that, it is the basics of any other class or spec... always be casting the appropriate spells, keep high up-time on dots, high up-time on buffs, don't move unnecessarily, and stay alive. what else is there?