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  1. #61
    I think the guy who handles lock simcraft was gonna try to get some numbers out to us this weekend. I also personally don't feel the sky is falling just yet. While this is a definite nerf to our cleave damage it's not a nerf to AoE and only a very very minor nerf to our single target dps. GoSac does not buff FnB and so on fights with lots of AoE I don't see whats wrong with going GoSuP/Obs. So, long as we have enough crit on our gear to keep up embers, for our now increased haste, while we FnB like crazy I don't see the problem. (Note - I know it looks like demo may very well be better than destro at those 2 things and so destro may not have a niche its top but until we get some type of math to confirm this without doing napkin math based on T14 sims it may be a bit early to declare the spec dead)

  2. #62
    The FnB radius decrease? That's not a nerf?

    The nerf to GoSac is a nerf to our single target AND our cleave.

    It's a pretty big deal.

    If the problem was our lack of minion and not that our cleave was OP (I don't feel it was) then it would be nice to buff us in some way to make up for the loss.

    I'll use a pet if I have to. I just want to be able to use Destro without feeling like I'm letting my team down.
    Last edited by Grizelda; 2013-02-26 at 03:37 PM.

  3. #63
    The radius is a nerf but they also nerfed SoC. Also, with MF we still have the largest AoE of any class in the game. We just can't clear an entire freaking room anymore. they haven't nerfed our damage numbers on any AoE abilities yet. However, that reminds me that GC said they haven't finished tuning their AoE numbers yet, but with the current patch marked release I guess they figured everything was fine.

  4. #64
    With the additional 5% nerf to Sac for Destro that must make Sac a now weaker talent in most cases than using a pet based on the #'s provided here anyways.

  5. #65
    so what the hell we are going to use now? delete locks and reroll to something else?
    im confused ^^

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by Aruotnof View Post
    I know... But now (5.1) I play in RBG or BGs with destro using GoSac... When I use GoService or GoSup, enemies usually kill my pet easily... This is a problem if in 5.2 GoSup or GoService will be the way to go (single target and cleaves). But, it´s my point of view.

    In other hand, I like the idea to use pets in PvP... We will get more control with succubus. =)

    I´m only worried about my pet´s life...
    Then don't use it. Sac is being nerfed, not deleted.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grizelda View Post
    I used to love watching my Felhuter run back and forth to waves of adds that die before he reaches them. Destro does't even have the luxury of the Imp to multi target with anymore.

    Fights where for some reason the floor mesmerizes my pet and he attacks...nothing.
    Buffs that don't buff the pet.
    Stats that don't help the pet.

    I suffered through moon well chalice pet swapping, micro managing Felhunters bite so it lined up with shadow flame. Playing petless for a while was fun. I don't like GC's imperial edict that I was doing it wrong. There were other ways to encourage those that wanted to use pets to use them. There were other ways to nerf Affliction.
    How do you think people who enjoyed playing with pets felt being "wrong" to be doing so?

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by Pantogatos View Post
    so what the hell we are going to use now? delete locks and reroll to something else?
    im confused ^^
    Locks still seem to be doing quite well on the PTR. I do not forsee us being benched at all this tier. However, it seems quite likely GoSup will be the talent choice for all 3 specs (go go stupid pet AI). No one quite has numbers yet but most people seem to think the general order will be demo>affi (affi may be even to demo due to smart pandemic use)>destro.

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post


    How do you think people who enjoyed playing with pets felt being "wrong" to be doing so?
    Pretty sure Destro with pet was on-par with Destro without pet. Different stats. Cleave was better for Sac.

    GC quite literally said without was wrong.

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by Grizelda View Post
    Pretty sure Destro with pet was on-par with Destro without pet. Different stats. Cleave was better for Sac.
    So, basically Sac was mandatory unless you were prepared to regem and reforge per encounter. And what of the Affliction Warlocks for whom pets have not been an option this expansion?

  10. #70
    What about them? It's a Destro discussion.

    I agree they picked a silly way to nerf Aff.

  11. #71
    No, it was sillier to have them reliant on that talent. Just as bad I think to make no change to Havoc as it doesn't fix the cleave issue that will remain.

  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    Then don't use it. Sac is being nerfed, not deleted.
    Yes, of course! I´m just showing my opinion about this change in GoSac in RBG/BGs. Probably this will be a problem, cause we will lose some nuke during the combat and change to GoSup or Service, for example, can be a solution. And if you change, others problem can appear, like I wrote above.

    But many changes can occur! It´s hard to give a final opinion. xD

    Sorry if I have not explained myself correctly.

  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    Just as bad I think to make no change to Havoc as it doesn't fix the cleave issue that will remain.
    There's a cleave issue?

    Destro had good cleave. That was kinda cool.

    Now it will not be as good. That's an issue.
    Last edited by Grizelda; 2013-02-26 at 05:06 PM.

  14. #74
    Warchief Szemere's Avatar
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    Partially reverted the buffs to Conflag and Immolate. They were +20%, and are now +15%.

    I guess we'll need more sims from non-Destruction specs (it is kinda sad that the EJ warlock section stopped actively discussing results, and that simulationcraft has stopped posting PTR/beta results on their main page), though considering how Demonology has always had massive scaling from all kinds of stats, it's quite surprising that they still think that Destruction is too high and Demonology is not, where Demo has been buffed considerably more...

    I guess I should leave it up to those actually knowing how to get good sims running on PTR stats instead of speculating, but it does certainly feel odd.
    Ex-GM and Raidleader of the MoX Purple Kittens Raidteam on Twisting Nether (formerly Grim Batol), RIP, Winter 2010 - Spring 2013.
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  15. #75
    Yeah, the warlock community here has been all up in arms over the last day about how destruction was dead in the water before the revert of the buffs. Some say it was viable but certainly so far no one had posted their thoughts about how destro was OP. Blizz and the lock community most definitely does not seem to be seeing eye to eye on this one.

  16. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by Grizelda View Post
    There's a cleave issue?

    Destro had good cleave. That was kinda cool.

    Now it will not be as good. That's an issue.
    But that 'good cleave' is reliant on Sacrifice, which in turn changes stat priorities and thus hardwires people through gear into that talent. Hense, it's an issue.

  17. #77
    If the reason they reverted the buffs to incin and conflag is due to destro being too high on AoE (which would make sense as destro has always had good AoE) then what they should have done is left the buffs alone and just changed the numbers under FnB. This would have kept the single target numbers where they wanted them and yet still nerfing their AoE.

  18. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by Hatelocker View Post
    If the reason they reverted the buffs to incin and conflag is due to destro being too high on AoE (which would make sense as destro has always had good AoE) then what they should have done is left the buffs alone and just changed the numbers under FnB. This would have kept the single target numbers where they wanted them and yet still nerfing their AoE.
    It was a single target nerf, players and Blizz underestimated how far behind Destruction was. I'd be suprised if Demo doesn't get similar treatment.

  19. #79
    Warchief Szemere's Avatar
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    I think there is currently no way to say how "screwed" we are. As far as I know (and please redirect me if wrong), there haven't been any sims of a large scala of specs as of yet. And all they are currently doing is tweaking numbers. For all we know, Destruction COULD be hella OP atm. Again, I've had trouble finding real data, so complaining about nerfs and saying that "blizzard and the community don't look eye to eye" is kinda silly, as we don't even have reliable numbers that I know of available yet.
    Ex-GM and Raidleader of the MoX Purple Kittens Raidteam on Twisting Nether (formerly Grim Batol), RIP, Winter 2010 - Spring 2013.
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  20. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    But that 'good cleave' is reliant on Sacrifice, which in turn changes stat priorities and thus hardwires people through gear into that talent. Hense, it's an issue.
    That good cleave was a particular play style that used GoSac. For fights where you can cleave. Situational.

    For single target, you could use a pet and do comparable damage as GoSac while having nothing to cleave. I believe a little less. If they wanted to buff our single target damage with a pet a bit, I'm all for it.

    No need to wreck Mastery/GoSac.

    I realize not all the numbers are in, it's just GCs comment that Gosac should be rare irks me.

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