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  1. #1

    [5.2] Destruction - Preliminary Grimoire/Pet Comparison & Effect on Stat Weights

    Hello All!


    I finally had a break from classwork and compiled a version of Simulationcraft with 5.2 PTR data. I was really curious about the relative strengths/weaknesses of the different Grimoire/Pet combinations after the changes to single target damage and Sacrifice's bonus damage. I'll start off with the base results (This is using T15H gear with Essence of Terror/Relic of Yu'lon for trinkets, as I assume the trinkets aren't updated in simc yet.)

    Keep in mind that this is only preliminary. This is in no way shape or form final, nor can I verify the correctness of the results. This was compiled from the HEAD revision as of Feb 23rd, 2013 at 3:00 PM PST. I'm just posting this for peoples information and because there are a few interesting things that I observed from the results. It is entirely possible that there are bugs causing inaccurate results.


    Anyway, without further ado, here are my results and the corresponding stat-weights/priority for each grimoire. These are ordered from highest to low.


    Grimoire/Pet DPS Priority Stat Weights
    Sacrifice 157295 Int > Hit > Mastery > Crit == Haste
    Int: 4.96
    Hit: 4.24
    Mastery: 2.93
    Crit: 2.45
    Haste: 2.39
    Sup/Observer 156800 Int > Hit > Haste == Mastery == Crit
    Int: 4.81
    Hit: 4.12
    Mastery: 2.48
    Crit: 2.43
    Haste: 2.51
    Sup/Shivarra 156527 Int > Hit > Haste == Mastery > Crit
    Int: 4.84
    Hit: 4.15
    Mastery: 2.46
    Crit: 2.30
    Haste: 2.49
    Sup/Voidlord 156480 Int > Hit > Haste == Mastery > Crit
    Int: 4.87
    Hit: 4.06
    Mastery: 2.48
    Crit: 2.34
    Haste: 2.53
    Serv/Succubus 155841 Int > Hit > Mastery > Crit == Haste
    Int: 4.79
    Hit: 4.17
    Mastery: 2.37
    Crit: 2.27
    Haste: 2.25
    Serv/Felhunter 155608 Int > Hit > Mastery == Crit == Haste
    Int: 4.75
    Hit: 4.17
    Mastery: 2.38
    Crit: 2.30
    Haste: 2.26
    Sup/Fel Imp 155327 Int > Hit > Mastery == Haste == Crit
    Int: 4.85
    Hit: 4.12
    Mastery: 2.50
    Crit: 2.40
    Haste: 2.46
    Serv/Voidwalker 155163 Int > Hit > Mastery == Haste == Crit
    Int: 4.83
    Hit: 4.04
    Mastery: 2.43
    Crit: 2.32
    Haste: 2.39
    Serv/Imp 154336 Int > Hit > Mastery == Crit > Haste
    Int: 4.77
    Hit: 4.13
    Mastery: 2.39
    Crit: 2.34
    Haste: 2.23



    Interesting Observations:
    • In general, Mastery is still the most valuable across all combinations
    • In every combination, except for Sacrifice, all 3 secondary stats are extremely close to each other
    • The buffs to ember generators has increased the value of haste across the board. On average, haste has become as good, but no better than, the stat it used to be behind.
    • Sacrifice is still the best for single target (:O)
    • All combinations are now within 3k dps deviation, however there is only a ~1.7k dps between the best option for every grimoire!
    • In general the following is true:
      • Sacrifice: Mastery > Crit == Haste
      • Supremacy: Haste == Mastery > Crit
      • Service: Mastery == Crit >= Haste

    Enjoy!

    Simcraft Profile Used to Generate Results:
    Code:
    #!./simc 
    
    warlock="Warlock_Destruction_T15H"
    level=90
    race=orc
    spec=destruction
    role=spell
    position=back
    professions=engineering=600/enchanting=600
    talents=http://us.battle.net/wow/en/tool/talent-calculator#Vb!..0.0.
    glyphs=conflagrate
    
    # This default action priority list is automatically created based on your character.
    # It is a attempt to provide you with a action list that is both simple and practicable,
    # while resulting in a meaningful and good simulation. It may not result in the absolutely highest possible dps.
    # Feel free to edit, adapt and improve it to your own needs.
    # SimulationCraft is always looking for updates and improvements to the default action lists.
    
    actions.precombat=flask,type=warm_sun
    actions.precombat+=/food,type=mogu_fish_stew
    actions.precombat+=/dark_intent,if=!aura.spell_power_multiplier.up
    actions.precombat+=/summon_pet
    actions.precombat+=/snapshot_stats
    actions.precombat+=/jade_serpent_potion
    
    actions=curse_of_the_elements,if=debuff.magic_vulnerability.down
    actions+=/use_item,name=gloves_of_the_thousandfold_hells
    actions+=/jade_serpent_potion,if=buff.bloodlust.react|target.health.pct<=20
    actions+=/blood_fury
    actions+=/dark_soul
    actions+=/service_pet,if=talent.grimoire_of_service.enabled
    actions+=/grimoire_of_sacrifice,if=talent.grimoire_of_sacrifice.enabled
    actions+=/summon_pet,if=talent.grimoire_of_sacrifice.enabled&buff.grimoire_of_sacrifice.down
    actions+=/run_action_list,name=aoe,if=active_enemies>3
    actions+=/summon_doomguard
    actions+=/rain_of_fire,if=!ticking&!in_flight&active_enemies>1
    actions+=/havoc,target=2,if=active_enemies>1
    actions+=/shadowburn,if=ember_react
    actions+=/immolate,cycle_targets=1,if=ticks_remain<add_ticks%2&target.time_to_die>=5&miss_react
    actions+=/chaos_bolt,if=ember_react&(buff.backdraft.stack<3|level<86)&(burning_ember>3.5|buff.dark_soul.remains>cast_time|buff.skull_banner.remains>cast_time)&(mana.pct<=75|(buff.havoc.stack>=3&buff.havoc.remains>cast_time))
    actions+=/conflagrate
    actions+=/rain_of_fire,if=!ticking&!in_flight&mana.pct>=50
    actions+=/incinerate
    
    
    actions.aoe=summon_infernal
    actions.aoe+=/rain_of_fire,if=!ticking&!in_flight
    actions.aoe+=/havoc,target=2,if=burning_ember>=3.5&ember_react&target.health.pct<=20
    actions.aoe+=/shadowburn,if=burning_ember>=3.5&ember_react&buff.havoc.stack>=1
    actions.aoe+=/fire_and_brimstone,if=ember_react&buff.fire_and_brimstone.down
    actions.aoe+=/immolate,if=buff.fire_and_brimstone.up&!ticking
    actions.aoe+=/conflagrate,if=buff.fire_and_brimstone.up
    actions.aoe+=/incinerate,if=buff.fire_and_brimstone.up
    actions.aoe+=/immolate,cycle_targets=1,if=!ticking
    
    head=hood_of_the_thousandfold_hells,id=96726,gems=burning_primal_80int_160mastery_180crit,reforge=hit_mastery
    neck=necklace_of_the_terracotta_invoker,id=96708,gems=160int_60hit,reforge=hit_mastery
    shoulders=mantle_of_the_thousandfold_hells,id=96729,gems=160int_80int_160mastery_120haste,enchant=200int_100crit,reforge=haste_mastery
    back=deadly_glare_cape,id=96485,gems=160int_60int,enchant=180int,reforge=haste_mastery
    chest=robes_of_the_thousandfold_hells,id=96728,gems=160int_80int_160mastery_80int_160hit_180int,enchant=80all,reforge=hit_crit
    wrists=azure_shell_bracers,id=96432,enchant=170int,reforge=crit_hit
    hands=gloves_of_the_thousandfold_hells,id=96725,gems=160int_60int,enchant=170mastery,addon=synapse_springs_mark_ii
    waist=abandoned_zandalari_firecord,id=96705,gems=80int_160hit_60int,reforge=hit_mastery
    legs=leggings_of_pulsing_blood,id=96483,gems=80int_160hit_80int_160hit_120int,enchant=285int_165crit
    feet=sandals_of_arcane_fury,id=96450,gems=80int_160mastery_60hit,enchant=140mastery,reforge=crit_mastery
    finger1=roshaks_remembrance,id=96529,gems=80int_160hit_60haste,enchant=160int
    finger2=jinrokhs_dreamshard,id=96382,enchant=160int,reforge=hit_mastery
    trinket1=essence_of_terror,id=87175,upgrade=6
    trinket2=relic_of_yulon,id=79331,upgrade=6
    main_hand=nadagasts_exsanguinator,id=96610,gems=80int_160mastery_60int,enchant=jade_spirit,reforge=hit_mastery
    off_hand=fetish_of_the_hydra,id=96454,gems=80int_160hit_60int,enchant=165int,reforge=hit_mastery
    
    default_pet=felhunter
    
    
    # Supremacy
    copy=Observer,Warlock_Destruction_T15H
    
    copy=Voidlord,Warlock_Destruction_T15H
    default_pet=voidwalker
    
    copy=Shivarra,Warlock_Destruction_T15H
    default_pet=succubus
    
    copy=Fel_Imp,Warlock_Destruction_T15H
    default_pet=imp
    
    # Service
    
    copy=Felhunter,Warlock_Destruction_T15H
    talents=http://us.battle.net/wow/en/tool/talent-calculator#Vb!..0.1.
    
    copy=Voidwalker,Warlock_Destruction_T15H
    talents=http://us.battle.net/wow/en/tool/talent-calculator#Vb!..0.1.
    default_pet=voidwalker
    
    copy=Succubus,Warlock_Destruction_T15H
    talents=http://us.battle.net/wow/en/tool/talent-calculator#Vb!..0.1.
    default_pet=succubus
    
    copy=Imp,Warlock_Destruction_T15H
    talents=http://us.battle.net/wow/en/tool/talent-calculator#Vb!..0.1.
    default_pet=imp
    
    # Sacrifice
    copy=Sacrifice,Warlock_Destruction_T15H
    talents=http://us.battle.net/wow/en/tool/talent-calculator#Vb!..0.2.

  2. #2
    Super Moderator xskarma's Avatar
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    Sup/Observer 156800 Int > Hit > Haste == Mastery == Crit
    Int: 4.81
    Hit: 4.12
    Mastery: 2.48
    Crit: 4.12
    Haste: 2.51
    Are the crit numbers in this correct?
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  3. #3
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    Well if this is confirmed it would be very good news, we could still keep the same reforges for single & multi targets.

    Thanks for your time !
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  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by xskarma View Post
    Are the crit numbers in this correct?
    Sorry they're not. And here I thought I triple-checked all the numbers. Fixed

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-23 at 05:05 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Zumzumzum View Post
    Well if this is confirmed it would be very good news, we could still keep the same reforges for single & multi targets.

    Thanks for your time !
    Indeed!

    I'm by no means intimate with Simcraft's source code, or how they manage the code as I haven't really looked into it much. However I am capable of downloading/compiling the source following the instructions on their wiki. :P The tooltip numbers/damage numbers for each combination looks like they've been correctly updated for 5.2 which is why I put it up here. However I don't take any responsibility for being wrong!

  5. #5
    Super Moderator xskarma's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brusalk View Post
    Sorry they're not. And here I thought I triple-checked all the numbers. Fixed
    Yeah, being the same as the hit number I figured something went wrong. Cool list though, thanks for running the numbers!
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  6. #6
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    I used to do a lot of Simcrafting back in Cataclysm but I haven't run it since MoP x)

    Perhaps you could do the same with T14H profiles, as this is what we will wear anyway during the first weeks.
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  7. #7
    So, based on the GoSac statvalues we gem pure mastery then? And where is that point where Mastery overvalues intellect?
    Some T14H Sims would be neat. (edit: Zumzum got the same request^^)
    Thanks for your work.
    edit2: Since you have the skills to make 5.2 models, could you sim affli and demo too to get a better idea how close the 3 speccs are?
    Last edited by Apero; 2013-02-24 at 02:12 AM.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Apero View Post
    So, based on the GoSac statvalues we gem pure mastery then? And where is that point where Mastery overvalues intellect?
    Some T14H Sims would be neat. (edit: Zumzum got the same request^^)
    Thanks for your work.
    edit2: Since you have the skills to make 5.2 models, could you sim affli and demo too to get a better idea how close the 3 speccs are?
    I tried, but I'm getting weird incorrect results with Demo, and affliction just straight crashes simcraft.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Brusalk View Post
    I tried, but I'm getting weird incorrect results with Demo, and affliction just straight crashes simcraft.
    How weird and incorrect?

    As a sidebar, I feel as though that with the buff to SB/SF/ToC/Wild Imps that this might actually make GoSac worth using as Demo... weird as that sounds.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Xorn View Post
    How weird and incorrect?

    As a sidebar, I feel as though that with the buff to SB/SF/ToC/Wild Imps that this might actually make GoSac worth using as Demo... weird as that sounds.
    I suppose I should clarify. I'm not getting weird numbers, but instead I'm getting strange errors, such as "Player Felguard cannot find pet felguard to summon". Something's broken with the demonology part of simc, because it happens even with t14 profiles.

  11. #11
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    Assuming all the math pans out, it sounds like blizz did well this patch. We'll be able to swap grimoires about or choose our grimoire based on how we like to play, which I like. Now I have tons to ponder because I like to run destro/demo and i'll need to think of a stat setup that'll work nicely with both specs (curse demo's ToC not scaling with haste! :P )

    Much food for thought. Om nom nom

  12. #12
    Can you share your build of simcraft so we can run our own gear level numbers?

    So this seems to show sac still best for single target fights, so with the usage of havok does this also mean sac will be much better for multi target fights? When would you use Sup or wouldn't you still?

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Nekromonde View Post
    Can you share your build of simcraft so we can run our own gear level numbers?

    So this seems to show sac still best for single target fights, so with the usage of havok does this also mean sac will be much better for multi target fights? When would you use Sup or wouldn't you still?
    It's pretty difficult to share the build of simcraft. It's easy enough to build if you have access to Visual Studio 2010 (any version).

    I'm hesitant to say that sac will be best for everyone on single target, because it is reliant on good-great timing of using your embers which not everyone has. One advantage of working with a pet is the increased value of haste/decreased value of mastery means that you can be a bit worse at timing your ember consumers and pull closer to theoretical max dps.

    As for when you'd use sup/serv over sac, I'd say if you're either not the best of making use of procs, or if it's a fight where there is a considerable amount of AoE and you can't really havoc anything, as Sac doesn't benefit AoE, but sup/serv still do through increased 1 target dps.

    I'd still say Sac will be worth it over any other talent if you cleave a decent amount of the time.



    Really all these changes mean, in my opinion, is sup/sac for single target is personal choice, and we no longer have to completely switch reforgings dependent on talent choice.
    To be completely honest, if these results are correct I tip my hat in complete and utter admiration for the team at Blizzard that put together the changes for Destro for 5.2. I'm amazed that they managed to both buff destro single target, incentivize non-sac a bit, and remove the need for complete reforgings dependent on talent choice.

    If it was an accident, then it was an extremely happy accident.

  14. #14
    Thanks Brusalk, looking forward then to your 5.2 guide I read your working on

    Excited for 5.2 release now, hopefully more top players will play destro and I will get questioned less about why I'm playing this spec...

  15. #15
    Super Moderator xskarma's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brusalk View Post
    To be completely honest, if these results are correct I tip my hat in complete and utter admiration for the team at Blizzard that put together the changes for Destro for 5.2. I'm amazed that they managed to both buff destro single target, incentivize non-sac a bit, and remove the need for complete reforgings dependent on talent choice.

    If it was an accident, then it was an extremely happy accident.
    Seeing as to how close the 3 specs were in Cata in 4.3 with a totally different build of specs I highly doubt that it would be an accident if it were true. I'd be pretty amazed too if they got it this well balanced in this short of a time. I mean we are literally 1 tier past the complete rebuild of the specs. That's pretty damn impressive.
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  16. #16
    Have you tested demo yet?

  17. #17
    Oh great! Maybe then I can keep using my Shivarra with my Haste=Mastery->Crit build.
    Or should I say, now I can actually use my build without feeling dumb.

  18. #18
    I have nothing to add to this conversation except to say THANK YOU to Brusalk (and all the others) for the work put into this.

    My one question is this: does the Sup/Obs stat summary assume that you use Optical blast on CD?

  19. #19
    any reason why you simmed it with T14 trinkets?

  20. #20
    Super Moderator xskarma's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jainzar View Post
    any reason why you simmed it with T14 trinkets?
    From the OP:

    (This is using T15H gear with Essence of Terror/Relic of Yu'lon for trinkets, as I assume the trinkets aren't updated in simc yet.)
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