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  1. #1
    Field Marshal Dytzy's Avatar
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    2H Frost: Haste cap?

    I've got 482 ilvl equipped with the following stats.

    7084 Haste
    3402 Crit
    1414 Mastery

    I'm starting to think about tweaking stats and not just stacking pure Haste > Crit > Mastery. I've googled it a little bit (But admittedly I didn't look TOO hard) and could not find any information on any haste caps, if there are any.

    Was hoping anyone on here might know and/or have links to sites that talk about it.

    Thanks for taking the time to read my post =]

    Also, this is for PVE, not PVP.

    I forgot to mention that.
    Last edited by Dytzy; 2012-10-20 at 04:05 AM.

  2. #2
    As far as I am aware there is no haste cap that could be realistically be achieved in current gear.

  3. #3
    The only haste cap that comes to mind would be if you were producing runs faster than you were using them. This would only occur at crazy high levels of haste (gear + lust + soul reaper).

    I'd say its pretty safe to just keep stacking it to the skies limit these days.

    Also as your haste goes up, crit will be devalued and mastery will one day overtake it.

  4. #4
    Moderator Fnx-'s Avatar
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    Keep stacking haste until you can't push out the runes faster than they regen, not something that will happen just around the corner I wonder how you can have that much haste tho, I'm running 6233 with a higher ilvl (486) - Do you gem full haste or something? It isn't wroth it over strength.
    Last edited by Fnx-; 2012-10-20 at 09:44 AM.

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  5. #5
    Field Marshal Dytzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fnx- View Post
    Keep stacking haste until you can't push out the runes faster than they regen, not something that will happen just around the corner I wonder how you can have that much haste tho, I'm running 6233 with a higher ilvl (486) - Do you gem full haste or something? It isn't wroth it over strength.
    I gem yellow sockets full haste, red sockets STR/haste, and blue sockets hit/haste.

    The reason I do this is because going off of EJ stat weights, 1 Haste is equal to 0.597 STR, Therefore 2 Haste is a greater dps increase than 1 STR.

    They suggest gemming STR in the gemming section but going off of those stat weights it contradicts their suggested gemming. Unless I'm understanding the stat weights wrong.

    Also, I know the stat weights are for BIS heroic gear, I havent had the time to download and run simcraft to find my actual stat weights for my current gear, although I plan to do that soon.

  6. #6
    Moderator Fnx-'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dytzy View Post
    I gem yellow sockets full haste, red sockets STR/haste, and blue sockets hit/haste.

    The reason I do this is because going off of EJ stat weights, 1 Haste is equal to 0.597 STR, Therefore 2 Haste is a greater dps increase than 1 STR.

    They suggest gemming STR in the gemming section but going off of those stat weights it contradicts their suggested gemming. Unless I'm understanding the stat weights wrong.

    Also, I know the stat weights are for BIS heroic gear, I havent had the time to download and run simcraft to find my actual stat weights for my current gear, although I plan to do that soon.
    You should run full str, unless the socket bonus is +60str or greater. Going with str/haste gem in yellow slots.

    Envy - Kazzak EU (www.envy.si)
    MY DK

  7. #7
    Field Marshal Dytzy's Avatar
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    I know that's how you did it in CATA, but are you sure it's still that way? I mean if EJ's stat weights are correct then wouldn't I be correct to gem the way I'm gemming now? I'm actually very curious, because I like to be optimal but it just doesnt make sense to me to gem for STR if 2 Haste is worth more dps then 1 STR. You know?

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Dytzy View Post
    I know that's how you did it in CATA, but are you sure it's still that way? I mean if EJ's stat weights are correct then wouldn't I be correct to gem the way I'm gemming now? I'm actually very curious, because I like to be optimal but it just doesnt make sense to me to gem for STR if 2 Haste is worth more dps then 1 STR. You know?
    Sim the stat values for your own character.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Dytzy View Post
    I know that's how you did it in CATA, but are you sure it's still that way? I mean if EJ's stat weights are correct then wouldn't I be correct to gem the way I'm gemming now? I'm actually very curious, because I like to be optimal but it just doesnt make sense to me to gem for STR if 2 Haste is worth more dps then 1 STR. You know?
    EJ's stat weights are using BIS gear. Those stat weights wont be correct for your current gear level

  10. #10
    Strength > Haste obviously, otherwise you would see everyone stack haste gems all the time.

  11. #11
    Field Marshal Dytzy's Avatar
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    Alright, well I admit defeat.

    I got simcraft and ran my current gear and it gave haste a stat weight of .47 in comparison to STR. I guess I'll switch my gems back until I get BIS >_<

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Harzaka View Post
    Strength > Haste obviously, otherwise you would see everyone stack haste gems all the time.
    This is not necessarily true. Strength needs to be twice as good as haste in MoP, because you can get twice the secondary stats on gems.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Schizoide View Post
    This is not necessarily true. Strength needs to be twice as good as haste in MoP, because you can get twice the secondary stats on gems.
    Indeed.
    To many people are stuck with the Cata way of gemming and that way of gemming doesnt work in MOP due to how much stat the secondarie stat gems give.

    I havent bothered lvling my DK yet but a haste gem could very wel be more powerfull then a strength gem simplycause like you say it gives twice as many points in the stat.

    But ofc always keep an eye on the stat bonus cause those can also be rather high.

  14. #14
    Field Marshal Dytzy's Avatar
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    I'm guessing neither one of you read my post... considering I said simcraft gave haste a stat weight of 0.47 in comparison to STR...

    1 STR = 1 stat weight
    2 Haste = 0.47 + 0.47 = 0.94 stat weight.

    Originally I was gemming pure haste, because of the amount of haste being "double" the amount of strength. but with the stats from my Sim, that is inferior to gemming 80 STR/160 haste.

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-20 at 08:21 PM ----------

    However once we get BIS heroic gear the stat weight of haste goes up to 0.597 according to EJ, which means gemming should be weighted towards gemming haste instead of STR

  15. #15
    Regemmed etc and now im at 4781 haste
    But 31 666 AP unbuffed

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Dytzy View Post
    I'm guessing neither one of you read my post... considering I said simcraft gave haste a stat weight of 0.47 in comparison to STR...

    1 STR = 1 stat weight
    2 Haste = 0.47 + 0.47 = 0.94 stat weight.

    Originally I was gemming pure haste, because of the amount of haste being "double" the amount of strength. but with the stats from my Sim, that is inferior to gemming 80 STR/160 haste.

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-20 at 08:21 PM ----------

    However once we get BIS heroic gear the stat weight of haste goes up to 0.597 according to EJ, which means gemming should be weighted towards gemming haste instead of STR
    Did you run with 10k or higher iterations? Wondering only because I have recently simmed with 1000 iterations and it gave me results such as yours.

    Siming with higher iterations and being more accurate gave me results that are true to your first post. Two haste>One Str.

  17. #17
    Field Marshal Dytzy's Avatar
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    I simmed at 25000 iterations and it gave me a ratio of 0.47 Haste to 1 Strength

  18. #18
    noob question incoming!! Where in simcraft do you see the ratio between haste and stength?

  19. #19
    Dreadlord vmagik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Restors View Post
    noob question incoming!! Where in simcraft do you see the ratio between haste and stength?
    Options tab, scaling tab, click the stats you wish to find weights for (str, crit, mastery, haste). Also useful to use the "plot reforges" to see how your DPS would theoretically change if you reforged from one stat into another.

    Also don't just take simcraft as gospel. It's good but will pretty much always overvalue haste due to not simming AMS absorbs.

    ATM on a patchwerk fight it's haste>str by a small margin, on light movement (I generally assume this is the most accurate) it's str>haste by a small margin. When factoring in AMS absorbs I just end up going with STR gems because you have the possibility of losing less DPS overall. Just my opinion anyway
    Amazing signature courtesy of Shyama

  20. #20
    I have close to 8k haste rating. I don't feel it's enough. It's adequate, but I can still weave in Horn of Winter comfortably. To talk about practical life, fights like the Blade Lord - with regular breaks for melees, feel very comfortable, since you have 1-2s (or even longer, thankk god for hardmodes... they feel easier than normal modes lol) for the runes to come up. In a straight dps rotation, especially single target, it is still not enough. I doubt it'll be ever enough.

    My char is http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...Slant/advanced I've not done too well on the dps side (~80% in WoL rankings usually). I've followed AskMrRobot's advice, if you're wondering about the haste gemming galore. It totally makes sense to me, though, judged by the stat weights.
    Last edited by Slant; 2013-02-25 at 12:13 PM.

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