1. #1

    Is my explanation for Holy/Shadow dual-spec Priest Sue-ish?

    I've always played Holy & Shadow as my two Priest specs on my Human Priestess, Sakura. Lorewise most Humans seem to be firm Light believers, and the Shadow Priests are Forsaken.

    However, playable Shadow Priests are...well, they're somewhat of a mystery. Sakura's behavior doesn't really match up with anything we've previously known or thought about the Shadow, although I'm not entirely convinced they're the evil religious leaders everyone makes them out to be. However, I've devised a very valid reason why she is able to manipulate both energies...

    I based her backstory on a book called The Magical Personality, which defines a person's "mythical creature" personality types based on their personal strengths. The intro description of the book on the back cover is:
    "Magic is essentially a psychological enterprise. Your own psychology is of central importance to what you want to do, what you can do, and what you actually do. Most of us know ourselves through the bright, primary side, and this is the side of ourselves that we like to present to others. This is the part of ourselves with positive strengths that allows us to do worthwhile and constructive things.

    At the same time, however, there is the dark side - the shadow. This is the side we are often unaware of and which disposes us, particularly during difficult times, to wrongful, destructive acts. We are, in effect, simultaneously black and white magicians. Which of these aspects holds the wand of power at any given point decides whether we will be constructive of destructive in our aims..."


    Basically, although Sakura does believe firmly in the Light's virtues and is a strong peace advocate unlike so many of her allies, she has always had a strongly individualistic view of the world, much like The Forgotten Shadow cult. She joined the Church of Holy Light out of her strong desire to help others and be valued for what she does. She was never very good at close combat, not like Paladins. But she always excelled at psychic ability...

    In fact, I once said in game that one of the major reasons Sakura embraced the Shadow along with the Light is because she is easily taken advantage of and has been badly treated in the past. She has learned many harsh lessons both early in life and in-game that have in a way had the effect of activating the Shadow as a necessary means of defense against further injury. In case you didn't know, this is a reference to the Wodwose shadow from the Magical Personality book mentioned above, which is the "shadow" type of the Mermaid - Mermaid primary types have compassion and intelligence as two of their main strengths (like Holy Priests), but their shadow counterpart Wodwose often struggles with an unconscious selfishness and anger/resentment (much like Shadow Priests!)

    In her time she discovered that although the Shadow might be considered "negative" by some, to her it seems to represent a kind of retribution - a useful tool that more or less turns an enemy's own wickedness against them. This ties into her strong sense of right and wrong...so in a way, these very same negative emotions actually further her belief in the Holy Light, thus resulting in the so-called "balance of Light and Shadow". Effectively, she has mastered the three Light virtues, as well as the Shadow's "Power" and the ability to "shape the universe herself", all in the name of the greater good.

    In Mists of Pandaria, her insight into the world of emotions and the Shadow has proved to be immensely useful in fighting the Sha and being diplomatic with the Pandaren, who also understand the concept of balance and control.

    According to Sakura herself in RP:
    -Becoming a good Shadow Priest is really all about learning to use the Shadow as needed for the greater good, and developing that balance, sticking to your true ideals, controlling the negative emotions, tempering your passion, etc. This is because those who delve into the Shadow recklessly run the risk of going absolutely insane from megalomania and joining an organization such as the Twilight Hammer in search of ever more power.
    -However, Shadow magic is actually considerably less "corrupting" and "torturous" than Fel magic (although a lot of people don't know that)
    -She keeps her practice hidden, and most of her friends and allies think she is a Holy or Disc Priest - the Church tends to disapprove of such Divine Humanism and dark magic. So she isn't really a "member" of the Cult of Forgotten Shadow, but she just worships the darkness, which as I pointed out, she views as an extension of her faith rather than in conflict with it
    -As such, when fighting alongside other people, Sakura prefers to stand back and cast out heals, blessings, and such. When questing alone she uses her Shadow powers more often, in a way she feels is right.

    However, even with all of this, I've also been wondering if maybe it would be more fitting to her personality to say Sakura isn't really a "Shadow Priest", but more of a Disc Priest who knows some Shadow abilities (Void Tendrils, Shadow Word Death, etc. - the Shadow spells all Priests can get).

    Thoughts?

  2. #2
    I've done a lot of debate on this subject and since it's a bit murky in lore, interpretations are varied and most have some credibility to them.

    My personal take is that the Shadow is the polar opposite of the Light (based on the information we've seen from the differing philosophies of the Church of Forgotten Shadow versus that of the Church of the Holy Light and the old corrupted Naaru shard that was purified and currently makes up the circular piece in the Ashbringer.) Therefore, as the Light magics are used selflessly, Shadow magics are powered by (and feed upon) one's selfishness. I think that it takes a very rare individual to be able to tread both paths without being consumed by their darker half.

    Of course this isn't to say that the powers of a shadow priest cannot be used for "good." It's just that it's extremely difficult to use them effectively when that good doesn't directly benefit you. There needs to be some amount of selfishness involved.

    I would have to disagree with the idea that shadow magic isn't nearly as corrupting as fel magic (in the sense of personality. It's absolutely true that it does not affect the caster physically, or at least, in any significant way compared to fel magic). It's heady, it's powerful. That alone I think would be good reason to suggest it could change people. I would say that there is good reason as to why the church would warn young priests and priestesses about it's lure.

    The way I see it is that it's like a scale with two materials of differing masses being weighed. One, per ml, has a significantly higher mass (i.e., shadow) than the other (light). Balancing them is a lot harder to do, because using shadow magic will make you want to use more shadow magic, which will begin to change your personality to make your shadow magic more powerful (since it feeds off of the type of personality that would like to use it), thus making you want to use it even MORE. At the same time, because light magic requires the opposite personality, those spells will get weaker and weaker, until you no longer can (or want to) use them.

    Personally speaking, for any character I would make at the very least, I think light and shadow magic are practically two mutually exclusive schools of magic. I would have my character use one or the other, but not both. At best, if I did, I would actively depict how big of a struggle it would be to try and have balance between the two, and more likely than not, my character would ultimately fail to remain pure and begin to exclusively use shadow magic.

    So to answer your actual question... is your explanation sue-ish? Eh. I wouldn't go so far to say THAT. That's really harsh... but I would say, at least based on my own views that it is stretching it a bit. I think, if you really want her to know some shadow magic (By the way, I would never really use access to in-game abilities or those abilities in general to make any big RP decisions... A lot of those are muddied by gameplay and wouldn't really be very representative of that class in a purely lore setting), that her personality fits that of someone who's just barely touched the surface of shadow magic. She seems way too selfless to be that big of a shadow priestess.
    Last edited by The Madgod; 2013-02-24 at 06:13 AM.

  3. #3
    Fluffy Kitten Lokann's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Madgod View Post
    I think that it takes a very rare individual to be able to tread both paths without being consumed by their darker half.
    Unless you're a troll, since the whole point of their priesthood is balancing between light and darkness.

    ... Says the guy with the crazy troll bloodbinder mind-priestess.



  4. #4
    Role-player Nonfictionless's Avatar
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    I agree on some parts with Madgod here, but one thing not mentioned is the "negative" view. I don't think you fully grasp the hatred of the Shadow the Light has. It's not just opposite magic, but opposite literally everything. Even the tenants they keep are directly taken from the Light and twisted. The Shadow is held in the same view as the Scourge. The fear alone of being discovered is something that would and rightfully should scare her badly. Not to mention, like every other magic, it leaves traces of its use. Eventually she would be caught.

    And just my personal opinion here but with all the Alliance heros that have used dark powers "for the greater good" or "to fight fire with fire" have ended up going completely dark side and severely hurt them; So I don't think the higher ups would be fine at all with her justification for using the Shadow.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Nonfictionless View Post
    I agree on some parts with Madgod here, but one thing not mentioned is the "negative" view. I don't think you fully grasp the hatred of the Shadow the Light has. It's not just opposite magic, but opposite literally everything. Even the tenants they keep are directly taken from the Light and twisted. The Shadow is held in the same view as the Scourge. The fear alone of being discovered is something that would and rightfully should scare her badly. Not to mention, like every other magic, it leaves traces of its use. Eventually she would be caught.

    And just my personal opinion here but with all the Alliance heros that have used dark powers "for the greater good" or "to fight fire with fire" have ended up going completely dark side and severely hurt them; So I don't think the higher ups would be fine at all with her justification for using the Shadow.
    This is where I got most of my information about the Shadow from: http://wow.joystiq.com/2010/07/21/sp...hadow-priests/

    I can understand that my priestess' personality and general resentment can fit more with "Discipline" than Shadow, but my argument is, why is it that in many RPers Star Wars-esque theory of the Light and the Shadow, why can there be evil people using the Light (Scarlet Crusade), but there CAN'T be good people using the Shadow - do you see what I'm saying?

    FYI, my own personal (others may disagree) lore explanation for dual-spec is that lorewise your character has really mastered both "specs", but due to balance issues you can only be one at a time in gameplay. We've seen this kind of duality from many major lore figures with classes even - for instance Thrall is a Shaman as well as a Warrior, Tyrande is a Priestess of the Moon and a Hunter...so IMO it wouldn't be that big of a stretch for someone to be similarly skilled in two major aspects of their class. However, like you said, that isn't to say the Light and Shadow would be able to work this way, at least not as easily as say, a Warrior being skilled in both Protection and dual-wielding (Fury) combat.

    I just really feel that even if I accept that my priestess IS Disc/Holy lorewise, it makes more sense to just work the "basic" Shadow spells into that somehow. After all, the Light does not lend itself much to dealing damage, and it seems to me that pure Light Priests are dependent on Paladins and Warriors to fight in their place even in lore. It was only recently that Disc actually became a viable spec for solo questing.
    Last edited by JFrombaugh; 2013-02-24 at 08:18 PM.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by JFrombaugh View Post
    This is where I got most of my information about the Shadow from: http://wow.joystiq.com/2010/07/21/sp...hadow-priests/

    I can understand that my priestess' personality and general resentment can fit more with "Discipline" than Shadow, but my argument is, why is it that in many RPers Star Wars-esque theory of the Light and the Shadow, why can there be evil people using the Light (Scarlet Crusade), but there CAN'T be good people using the Shadow - do you see what I'm saying?
    Because you're using the wrong definition for "good." Though their cause is twisted they genuinely believe that what they are doing is good. They believe they are sacrificing themselves for the good of the world. That is their thought process. "Good" and "evil" from a third person perspective don't exist for the Light and the Shadow. It's one's own personal perspective, selflessness, and selfishness that matter. If you don't believe your cause is good and just or you act selfishly, the Light will fail you. On the flip side, with shadow magic, you don't need to care about the morality your cause, as long as it benefits YOU.

    Quote Originally Posted by JFrombaugh View Post
    FYI, my own personal (others may disagree) lore explanation for dual-spec is that lorewise your character has really mastered both "specs", but due to balance issues you can only be one at a time in gameplay. We've seen this kind of duality from many major lore figures with classes even - for instance Thrall is a Shaman as well as a Warrior, Tyrande is a Priestess of the Moon and a Hunter...so IMO it wouldn't be that big of a stretch for someone to be similarly skilled in two major aspects of their class. However, like you said, that isn't to say the Light and Shadow would be able to work this way, at least not as easily as say, a Warrior being skilled in both Protection and dual-wielding (Fury) combat.
    The problem is that Light and Shadow are complete opposites. Priests are the only class whose in-game ability set is so polar.

    Really, I wouldn't even go so far as to explain dual-spec in RP. I just ignore it. It's merely an in-game limitation. As far as I'm concerned, a character of mine knows all of the things relevant to his class, assuming it's appropriate in lore for my character to know all of them. Really it's only the priest who has that restriction, but it does make sense that it's there. I wouldn't say he knows all the ABILITIES, because I believe abilities are only just examples of possible aspects of a particular skillset of that class. RP means that if you focus on healing as a druid, you aren't watered down to 10ish specific abilities.

    Quote Originally Posted by JFrombaugh View Post
    I just really feel that even if I accept that my priestess IS Disc/Holy lorewise, it makes more sense to just work the "basic" Shadow spells into that somehow. After all, the Light does not lend itself much to dealing damage, and it seems to me that pure Light Priests are dependent on Paladins and Warriors to fight in their place even in lore. It was only recently that Disc actually became a viable spec for solo questing.
    The light is a powerful tool against evil. I think you're looking far too closely at in-game mechanics for your character.

  7. #7
    Role-player Nonfictionless's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JFrombaugh View Post
    I can understand that my priestess' personality and general resentment can fit more with "Discipline" than Shadow, but my argument is, why is it that in many RPers Star Wars-esque theory of the Light and the Shadow, why can there be evil people using the Light (Scarlet Crusade), but there CAN'T be good people using the Shadow - do you see what I'm saying?
    Madgod touched upon this already but I just want to really drive home how much your state of mind matters in spell-casting for wow. The Shadow demands power. The Light demands unwavering faith. Past that motives don't particularly matter that much. Good and Evil are just view points and the Light and the Shadow don't care about them. For all their (Shadow & Light) differences they share a very slim commonality, changing the world. Through power or compassion; so you can't just divide the Light and Shadow but you have to divide those that follow them because how they go about this is the big factor here.

    And as for good Shadow users I personally would make the argument that they are all good. They fight for the strength of their people and preach that they deserve the right to live. The only reason to see them strictly as evil is from the view point of the Light. But this is a conversation for another topic. ^.^


    Quote Originally Posted by JFrombaugh View Post
    FYI, my own personal (others may disagree) lore explanation for dual-spec is that lorewise your character has really mastered both "specs", but due to balance issues you can only be one at a time in gameplay. We've seen this kind of duality from many major lore figures with classes even - for instance Thrall is a Shaman as well as a Warrior, Tyrande is a Priestess of the Moon and a Hunter...so IMO it wouldn't be that big of a stretch for someone to be similarly skilled in two major aspects of their class. However, like you said, that isn't to say the Light and Shadow would be able to work this way, at least not as easily as say, a Warrior being skilled in both Protection and dual-wielding (Fury) combat.
    Now here is where you are really having a problem. When it comes to RPing, you kind of have to throw in-game mechanics out the window. They aren't there for RPing purposes. In-game you can't change classes or even learn to be another class, but through RPing this is possible. For example my character Aland Wood, has gone from being a warrior to a priest to a paladin to a shadow priest. So seeing a warrior like Thrall turning shaman is very possible. But comparing this, or Tyrande for that matter, to using the Light and the Shadow together is like comparing apples to elephants stuffed in clown cars.

    Quote Originally Posted by JFrombaugh View Post
    I just really feel that even if I accept that my priestess IS Disc/Holy lorewise, it makes more sense to just work the "basic" Shadow spells into that somehow. After all, the Light does not lend itself much to dealing damage, and it seems to me that pure Light Priests are dependent on Paladins and Warriors to fight in their place even in lore. It was only recently that Disc actually became a viable spec for solo questing.
    From an RP standpoint this is completely accurate. That is the point of them. They are healers and preachers. For the most part they are not fighters, unless it comes to the undead/scourge/warlocks. You underestimate how powerful the Light is against the undead. Despite the lack of organization in the Cult there is one thing they have agreed upon is the need for a special class of Shadow wielders being created, the Lightslayers. For all their strength and power the Light is their natural counter.

    If you wish for your character to be such an adventurer you have to write them that way.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Nonfictionless View Post
    From an RP standpoint this is completely accurate. That is the point of them. They are healers and preachers. For the most part they are not fighters, unless it comes to the undead/scourge/warlocks. You underestimate how powerful the Light is against the undead. Despite the lack of organization in the Cult there is one thing they have agreed upon is the need for a special class of Shadow wielders being created, the Lightslayers. For all their strength and power the Light is their natural counter.

    If you wish for your character to be such an adventurer you have to write them that way.
    Yes, she is such an adventurer, I made that clear from the start, which is precisely why I thought of the idea of her using the Shadow. My basic idea was for her to be like a lot like Jedi Sage from SWTOR - healer and preacher, tries to avoid combat if possible, but if it comes to violence she is more than capable of defending herself.

    However, even though this kind of role is often filled by Paladins, another baseline I have established for Sakura is she was never very good at or fond of melee combat - in fact she actually tends to dislike the tough love, gung-ho attitude of many Paladins and Warriors. Although she is a peace advocate and enjoys sharing the Light's blessings with others, she has at the same time (sub-consciously) had trouble meeting people as equals because to do so would be to admit that she is not unique.

    So does this mean that if I want her to be an independent adventurer who is nonetheless a Priestess of the Church as well I have to make her fully Shadow, thus destroying her peaceful attitude and making her cut off from the order?

    No. Discipline Priests do seem to be very capable fighters, although they would probably try to capture or force a surrender, at least against non-undead or demons. But as I pointed out, she does seek "power" just like a Shadow follower, although not power for its own sake...

    Arrgaaahhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!! It's too confusing!!

    EDIT:
    http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/YinYangBomb
    You'll love it, can anyone explain the difference between this trope and my character?
    Last edited by JFrombaugh; 2013-02-25 at 02:25 AM.

  9. #9
    Role-player Nonfictionless's Avatar
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    Okay well I think I now see the underlying problem here. You are intending her to be your only character for everything. Which really doesn't make a whole lot of sense. As a priest of the Holy Light she would definitely be part of the Church which means she would only really be active in Church affairs. Which means mostly dealing with the undead which would be her forte.

    Look I got to put this on the line for you. Shadow doesn't mix with Light. Attempting to use one and the other would be painful in more than one way. It would be hard to live a lie and soon she would be found out.

    If you want her to be an adventurer then have her be one. She of course would not be a good fighter and this would be her weakness. Attempting to give and justify her having shadow powers for the sake of defending herself is just simply bad.

  10. #10
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    Yvaelle said this best I think: (Ignore the parts about warlocks)
    Originally Posted by Yvaelle
    Warlock themes, are to do with demons (specifically, the burning legion), fel magic (a breed of magic stemming in power from the burning legion), and a mastery of high-form magic (teleportation, pyromancy, etc) and in the case of affliction - they deal specifcially in spreading afflictions. The important thing to note, especcially in the case of Affliction (as it is the closest point of thematic overlap) is that Corruption or Unstable Affliction or Malefic Grasp or Drain Life / Soul - all of these are based in manifesting something essentially physical from the ether (Corrupting a target or afflicting them, draining them, grasping them, etc).

    Destruction - being probably the furthest thematically from Shadow - is more akin to a Sorcerous Pyromancer - they are something along the lines of Fire Mages who - in their quest for still greater power - have begun dabbling in black magic. Demonology warlocks are very specifically thematically associated with the Burning Legion connection that warlocks all share - they transform into demons, they summon and command more powerful demons. The Affliction warlock is the closest thematically to a Warlock proper - but they are a far, far cry from being a Shadowpriest: what do I mean by a Shadowpriest then?

    A Shadowpriest is, first and foremost, a Priest. We all began as priests - but - though our individual stories may differ - we became fascinated with the opposite of the Light. If "Know Your Enemy" is the first rule of war, Priests - who normally studiously study the Light - became a little too interested in the absence of light. That is why we are called "Shadow" priests, we are those priests who eschewed the light as we came to recognize that the true power to achieve our means came from knowing both sides of the coin, and then - when we have fully fallen - to going to whatever means necessary to achieve our ends. If you have heard the expression "When all you have is a hammer, every problem is a nail" - well, Shadowpriests were Priests, then Priests who knew Shadow magic, and then priests who decided the best way to heal their friends was to speak the word "Death" to those that would harm them (as a hammer to a defiant nail).

    If you look at the spell set of the Spriest in particular (but also Priests in general) the power of the mind over the mind is far more important to us than the manipulation or manifestation of physical realities. We don't summon fire or demons or ice or teleport - all things I previously called high-form magic. All our spells deal with control over the mind - either ours or our opponents. Read these spell names out loud and think about the difference between a spell which manifests something physical (like a Chaos Bolt being a giant ball of fire) and something which is purely an abstraction of the mind:

    Psychic Scream, Horror, Psyfiend
    Mind Flay, Blast, Control, Bender
    Silence, Shadow Word: Pain, Shadow Word: Death, Power Word: Shield

    If I speak the word Pain, you feel it. If I say the word Death - and you are in a weakened state - you die - I didn't hit you in the face with a 12 foot sword, or immolate you in a wave of otherworldly fire - I merely told you that you were dead, and you believed me and stopped pumping your heart. Even spells like Inner Fire are a common reference to strong Willpower.

    Ok, so shadowpriests are priests, who are particularly invested in the powers of the mind over itself and others - but what does this have to do with the Sha? The Sha are physical manifestations of emotions, in a very big and important way - a Sha is not actually there when you fight it - it's a construct - an idea - in your mind. It doesn't have internal organs, mama Sha's don't give birth to baby Sha's, Sha's do not die of old age. A priest - but a shadowpriest in particular - would have special interest in the ability of emotions to control, terrify, or empower their allies. The Sha of Anger, or Fear, or Despair - these are all manifestations of your mind: they are not demons. They are not even really high-form magic - but as you point out - they are something deeper, often more sinister but subtle. If a priest flays your mind, we do not whip out an egg beater and stir your brains around into mush - we discombobulate your thoughts (the flaying is metaphorical). Everything that a Spriest does, and everything that a Sha does - are fundamentally similar - we insert or subtract thoughts from your mind, we strip your will, we emit dread: but we don't throw fireballs or summon demons or huck fistfuls of virus and diseases at you.

    The void - in wow lore or any other that I can think of - has Zero to do with wow-style warlocks. By its very definition, the Void is an absence - in WoW's case - of the Light. It is why we ourselves appear as nothing but a Shadow cast over anything we stand before, it is why our pets are similarly voids of light - fiends without physical form. Void tendrils aren't physical objects (despite Blizzards balance-based choice to make them punchable - presumably this represents mental struggle). Even the ability Void Shift - makes our health pools the opposite, just as we are opposite - antithesis of the Light. The idea of Void has infinitely more to do with Light than it does with Demonology, or Affliction, or Destruction - Void is practically a synonym for Shadow.

    Now, if you wanted to talk about thematic overlap - the warlock spell Fear makes no sense for warlocks to have - that should be a priest spell. Conversely, Devouring Plague should be an Affliction spell - we spriests don't really have anything to do with diseases and plagues, that's warlock thing. I can explain why we have DP however, originally - DP was an Undead Priest-only spell (and it makes tons of sense for the Undead to have Devouring Plague), but then when it was overpowered - Blizzard gave it to all priests - then when they redesigned our class - they made it our finisher.

    So, if you like - we can talk to the GMs and see if they will exchange Fear for Devouring Plague - on the grounds that it makes more sense thematically

    Edit: Also would just like to point out, that Sha very clearly is a shortening of the word Shadow. As in Shadow of Anger, Shadow of Fear, Shadow of Despair - supported not only by their lore / stories / things they say - but also by the fact that they are giant swirling formless shadows. Also, when you get very close to a Sha - your world becomes grey and colourless - as though there wasn't very much Light present. The idea of the world becoming grey is also a common euphemism for severe depression (a psychological, but not physical - condition).
    "If MMORPG players were around when God said, "Let their be light"
    they'd have called the light gay, and plunged the universe back into darkness by squatting their nutsacks over it."

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by JFrombaugh View Post
    EDIT:
    http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/YinYangBomb
    You'll love it, can anyone explain the difference between this trope and my character?
    The difference between that trope and your character is that your character is in a world where being able to use both the Light and the Shadow is far less possible than other worlds where one can use "light" and "dark" (in whatever form they materialize as).

    I mean really, I have to agree with Fic here. It seems like you just want her to be able to fend for herself and you added that she could wield Shadow magic to satisfy that... which doesn't work. Having weaknesses, like not being able to fight well against non-undead / demons, is a GOOD thing. You're trying to fix something that isn't really broken and actually makes your character BETTER.

    Quote Originally Posted by Phookah View Post
    Yvaelle said this best I think: (Ignore the parts about warlocks)
    Originally Posted by Yvaelle
    That doesn't seem all that relevant to the topic at hand. It's a nice thing to look at for the mechanics of shadow magic, but it offers very little on the psychology of being a shadow priest. It doesn't go into the differences between Light users and Shadow users and what those differences mean.
    Last edited by The Madgod; 2013-02-25 at 05:10 AM.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Nonfictionless View Post
    Okay well I think I now see the underlying problem here. You are intending her to be your only character for everything. Which really doesn't make a whole lot of sense.
    Actually, no. I have a few other characters. Basically Sakura works with the church most of the time, but also goes around to the towns helping others (i.e the quests) when her duties call for it. In terms of the expansions, she has only been to Northrend and now Pandaria (the former was the Crusade against the Scourge which makes sense, the latter because she was conscripted into the force to rescue Anduin). The "star" characters of Burning Crusade and Cataclysm were my Dreanei Mage and Night Elf Druid respectively (those two made more sense for the problems at hand).

    The real problem is really how much I've already established of her, as well as the fact that I do tend to try to work within Blizzard's established storylines (the game is pretty linear, after all). (Is that a bad thing to do for RP?)

    Personally I've always felt that WoW has a pretty "black and white" lore compared to other fiction. That is, the vast majority of the NPCs of a certain race/class fit certain "stereotypes", and from a RP point of view it's hard to justify not fitting the established stereotype.

    But anyway. So making my Priestess "fall" to being a full Shadow Priest, branded heretic and cast out of the church - on the grounds that she has always had some sub-conscious selfishness, curiosity, tendency to feel negative emotions, and an independent-minded attitude.......

    ......Would actually make more sense lorewise than having her wield the Light and Shadow in the aforementioned yin-yang fashion and get away with it????

    I just ask because I'm curious, and I kind of like her personality as it is, don't want to develop her (not yet anyway). If it is very difficult if not impossible for a Shadow Priest to remain peaceful and compassionate, I'll probably just accept that she is a Priestess of the Light and discard the whole Shadow thing.

    (Just to let you know, before either of you guys get too angry, I AM pretty new to RP)
    Last edited by JFrombaugh; 2013-02-25 at 05:59 AM.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by JFrombaugh View Post
    Actually, no. I have a few other characters. Basically Sakura works with the church most of the time, but also goes around to the towns helping others (i.e the quests) when her duties call for it. In terms of the expansions, she has only been to Northrend and now Pandaria (the former was the Crusade against the Scourge which makes sense, the latter because she was conscripted into the force to rescue Anduin). The "star" characters of Burning Crusade and Cataclysm were my Dreanei Mage and Night Elf Druid respectively (those two made more sense for the problems at hand).

    The real problem is really how much I've already established of her, as well as the fact that I do tend to try to work within Blizzard's established storylines (the game is pretty linear, after all). (Is that a bad thing to do for RP?)
    Not particularly. Stories always move forward in a linear fashion. Roleplay allows you to kinda travel back in the past but in terms of character history yeah it should be pretty linear. Most of my characters have histories that are tied to Blizzard's stories, the Third War being my favorite to use. Character development shouldn't necessarily be linear progression, since we know different events cause changes to a character at different rates, but that's another subject for another time.

    Quote Originally Posted by JFrombaugh View Post
    Personally I've always felt that WoW has a pretty "black and white" lore compared to other fiction. That is, the vast majority of the NPCs of a certain race/class fit certain "stereotypes", and from a RP point of view it's hard to justify not fitting the established stereotype.
    I would say that's not wholly true. I would say that each race and class has a spectrum of likely personalities, rather than specific stereotypes. Priests are sort of the odd one out because their magic defines their personality. Warlocks can be good guys who just don't see why there has to be a stigma on demon magic if one uses it to better the world. Paladins can be "evil", I mean look at the scarlet crusade... though they can wield the light because they believe they are doing good, from the perspective of a reader, they're pretty evil.

    Quote Originally Posted by JFrombaugh View Post
    But anyway. So making my Priestess "fall" to being a full Shadow Priest, branded heretic and cast out of the church - on the grounds that she has always had some sub-conscious selfishness, curiosity, tendency to feel negative emotions, and an independent-minded attitude.......

    ......Would actually make more sense lorewise than having her wield the Light and Shadow in the aforementioned yin-yang fashion and get away with it????
    Yep. Well, kinda. You're forgetting that the shadow would actually make those "sub-conscious" personality traits actually begin to manifest and change her to the point where she WOULD be cast out of the church for those reasons.

    Other than that... yeah. Like we've said, it's a very contradictory thing to be able to wield the Light and the Shadow without being consumed by the latter.

    Quote Originally Posted by JFrombaugh View Post
    I just ask because I'm curious, and I kind of like her personality as it is, don't want to develop her (not yet anyway). If it is very difficult if not impossible for a Shadow Priest to remain peaceful and compassionate, I'll probably just accept that she is a Priestess of the Light and discard the whole Shadow thing.
    I would say yes, it's pretty conflicting for a shadow priest to be a genuinely peaceful and compassionate person. At best, it would be a facade, an attempt to cover up the true feelings that the priest has inside to allay suspicion.

    Personally I would love to play a character who was deeply conflicted and undergoing a metamorphosis... a character who started off as a devout worshiper of the Light having his or her faith shaken by the sway of the Shadow and struggling the changes that are happening to him or her as he or she slowly succumbs to the taint.

    But... I realize it's not for everyone, and really, if you truly wish to have your priestess remain what I like to call a "nice lady," then remaining purely a priestess of the Light isn't really that big of a deal. Like I've said, the weakness of not being able to defend ones self as efficiently against non-undead / demons is a good thing. It adds layers to your character and makes finding fellows to roleplay with as your guardian a desirable idea, and what is roleplaying if not being social?

    Quote Originally Posted by JFrombaugh View Post
    (Just to let you know, before either of you guys get too angry, I AM pretty new to RP)
    I don't think either of us have gotten angry. We've seen far, far worse from the roleplaying community (I recall a fine chap who wanted his character to be the son of Illidan, Alexstrasza, and Arthas, so this isn't even in my top 200), and this is a difficult subject for a lot of people to really wrap their brains around.
    Last edited by The Madgod; 2013-02-25 at 06:42 AM.

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