EU citizen: Yes
EU citizen: Conflicted by this
EU citizen: No
US citizen: Yes
US citizen: Conflicted by this
US citizen: No
Turkey citizen: Yes
Turkey citizen: Conflicted by this
Turkey citizen: No
Rest of world citizen: Yes
Rest of world citizen: Conflicted by this
Rest of world citizen: No
Yet the Greeks and Turks beat each others heads over cCyprus, which I always seen as none of the others business.
Nowadays it properly reflects as that. An independent nation.
And yes, both protagonists need to leave Cyprus. I support that too, and it could be made a requirement for Turkey to join the EU.
Last edited by Wildtree; 2013-02-24 at 02:49 PM.
No, no and no.
There are already too many parts of the UK that look like the backstreets of Istanbul.
Last edited by Mycroft Holmes; 2013-02-24 at 03:05 PM.
Yes, in the future, but right now, no, they have a lot of shit to fix: kurds, Cyprus, religious problems (still remember the case how in one village people burried teenage girl alive because she flirted with a boy - and we are talking about the most secular muslim country).
Ah yes, also Erdogan.
He must go, I am growing tired of him blaming everyone else in his failings, especially Israel.
I voted yes because it is only a downside in the future not to add them (assuming the economics gets fixed). An example could be WW3 and turkey siding with the other side because they weren't allowed into EU...just as an extreme :P
That's how Europe's countries came to existence. Turkey is not innocent on that either.
He was actually pointing out that religion is not and should not be a factor.Its that kind of Ignorance and hypocrisy that makes me wonder why we even try to join, joining the EU as a Muslim state is almost as ridiculous as trying to join a treehouse club with stupid rules on admission, and it shows how mature europe is in its thinking when it comes to Islamic tolerance and understanding.
It isn't a factor because Europe holds home for a multitude of religions and it has never been an issue at all in the last 60 years at least.. Your attack has no validation..
I don't know what triggered that comment now.Heres a small hint, Europe doesn't run the entire world and neither is its authority recognized as sovereign, something you guys have failed to realize for the past 1500 years... There's an entire other half of the world that hardly gives a fuck about the little club you made for yourselves.
I support Turkey's inclusion, and I made that clear.
However, I too pointed out that such can only be the case if Turkey warrants that there are no national political problems within Turkey. The human rights issue is an issue. If that's solved, and if Turkey retreats from Cyprus, then the door should be wide open, and Turkey is a valuable member of the EU.
Turkey is ready to leave Cyprus as long as governing power as well as commonwealth is equally divided. Last time I checked Annan's plan was favoring Greeks so hard.
Isn't Erdogan even still denying the Armenian genocide?
Not to mention the fact that once again there simply were the most violations of human rights in Turkey in 2012 within Europe - even more than in Russia.
They really need to fix these issues first.
Also, The membership of EU is an artificial goal created by Turkish Politicians to divert the masses back in days. Neither our politicians nor our citizens want to enter EU today. Even someone barely educated or casually reading about Turkish Political History knows it. We should aim European level of human rights but Turkey doesn't really need to be in EU. In fact, you would need a Turkey without serious problems(human rights, terror etc.) more than such Turkey would need you.
I agree to let Turkey join the EU, but at least let UK pull out first please.
They have no place in the Union. The way they treat Armenains and Kurds show that they are just as inhumane as 100 years ago.
The question should be what is the future of EU !
Then you can ask what to do with Turkey.
I think there is no consensus between european countries about wich direction should take EU.
The integration process is really slow now, there is many divergence in politics (economic, social, foreign affairs) between its major countries.
The democratic reprensentativity is weak and is controlled by officials in Bruxelles.
There will probably be a poll in UK, many political forces in various countries want to end the Euro experience or even the EU itself (extremists from right or left).
The picture is not very exiting at this moment...
I think also the turkish do not know what they really are.
They still live under the nostalgy of the Ottoman Empire. They are still fighting between westernalisation an oriental tendencies.
They want, as a muslim country, to take the leadership among the other muslim countries of western mediterranean, wich is legitimate, but will be contradictory with an european integration.
They think they are descendant of turco-mongol peoples wich is nearly completly wrong, historiticaly Anatolia is one the most geneticaly mixed region of "Europe".
They are a mix of greek, semit, persian, armenian, other caucasian people, with celtics and germanic invasions, on an indo-european substratum with a turkish speaking elite wich had been for several centuries living in persian regions before taking power in Anatolia !
When you look the at other turkish speaking peoples further in the east, they are all very asian, the kind of face you don't see in Turkey.
When Europe will take back world leadership, they will do it with Turkey and Russia, it's not for tomorow ! (as a side note EU is already the wold economic leader in terms of GDP and will be untill China will exceed).
Last edited by pouca; 2013-02-24 at 03:54 PM.
I voted no just out of principle. Turkey lies not on the European continent (except for a tiny part) and therefore should not be allowed to join the European Union. Easy as that. If they change the name of the Union then maybe, but not now. Otherwise we could ask Japan or the US to join. I mean they will definitely pass all requirements.....
In regards to the religion issue, tolerance has to work both ways. Until we start seeing a clear separation of church & state, it will always be a problem. Hell, I don't know of any country that is managing to pull that off yet, not even Sweden which supposedly is one of the atheist-richest countries in the world.
And then there's the whole human rights issue, which is tied into religion (specially Islams view on women & Sharia law).
I do think Turkey should join EU one day, I think we must all work together and set aside our differences and work towards a common goal (space perhaps?). On the other hand, it's not like the EU as it is today is achieving that goal; but it's hopefully getting there.
To declare that a personal, inner experience gives certainty about the workings of the universe is to assign far too much value to one’s subjective sense of conviction.
I’m not that arrogant.
The brain, marvelous instrument though it is, isn’t infallible. It can misfire, seize or hallucinate, and it can do so in a way that’s utterly indistinguishable from reality to the person experiencing it.