Poll: Do you think Turkey should one day join the EU?

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  1. #421
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cybran View Post
    I don't even have a problem with their culture. I hate the fact that most of them are overly zealous and nationalistic. They are stuck with a world view that they can sole all their problems with violence and intimidation. This notion is further enforced by US backing them and EU not putting it's foot down. Many of the second geners also are know for crime and refusal to integrate. This is my problem with their mentality.
    like american patriots?
    great, now we do something americans do and people hate us for that too.

    with violence and intimidation.
    Since the start of the republic of Turkey, all the bordering countries hated us for our success to keep a good chunk of the ottoman empire for ourselves. And yes, they hate us because of exactly that. if we don't show any sign of power, might and nation love - Turkey would've been a bigger shithole than people assume.
    Europe signed and gave us those borders in treaties.

    Many of the second geners also are know for crime and refusal to integrate.


    Those are the exception. Yes they have a rather large influence, but they don't resemble the 2nd geners. 2nd geners are de facto less extreme and more integrated. Atleast in Belgium that is. If you live in a bad neighborhood and had a bad experience with one of them, tough luck. but still no reason to generalize them.
    Last edited by mmoc058e0f1fe5; 2013-02-25 at 03:01 PM.

  2. #422
    http://www.todayszaman.com/columnist...antinople.html

    Brilliant article written by a Turkish journalist about Turkish attitudes towards ethnic minorities and Christians, and what could have been if they had had a more tolerant, inclusive culture.

    Here is a Turk talking about how they need to change and how their problem is in the very roots of the identity they created for themselves.

  3. #423
    Deleted
    After Romania and Bulgaria we shouldn't invite another poor country like Turkey. At least not for another 20-30 years. Do we really want few more millions of muslim immigrants storming our cities? If we let them in EU only question is how many millions will immigrate here.

    Also with Schengen we would have borders with countries like Iraq, Iran, Syria. Doesn't sound like a smart idea to me.
    Not to mention that they occupy half of one of EU members.

    Funny how almost all Americans vote that we should let them in. You should give us good example and open borders with Mexico, give them permission to legally work in US and billions of $ to develop their country

  4. #424
    The Undying Wildtree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VelmuVeera View Post
    Absolutely no, and I don't think they should ever join the EU. It's still a poor country which is pretty uncivilized compared to the western European countries and in addition it's an islamic country.
    Turkey is much richer than Bulgaria and Romania.. That's definitely not an argument.

    And - generally speaking - we all are kind of confusing something here. We discuss as to whether it's about a Yes or a No on Turkey's inclusion.
    Truth is. It's about negotiations. So the topic should rather be, what are Turkey's duties to be fulfilled to become a EU member.

    A definite NO is absolutely invalid...... NO would nullify any negotiations. Just as much as a definite YES would be invalid.

  5. #425
    Quote Originally Posted by roztworek View Post
    After Romania and Bulgaria we shouldn't invite another poor country like Turkey. At least not for another 20-30 years. Do we really want few more millions of muslim immigrants storming our cities? If we let them in EU only question is how many millions will immigrate here.

    Also with Schengen we would have borders with countries like Iraq, Iran, Syria. Doesn't sound like a smart idea to me.
    Not to mention that they occupy half of one of EU members.

    Funny how almost all Americans vote that we should let them in. You should give us good example and open borders with Mexico, give them permission to legally work in US and billions of $ to develop their country
    It's not surprising the Americans would vote that way. America has been giving money and weapons to Turkey for decades, and the narrative in the US is only about what they perceive as Turkey's values, nothing negative is said about them at all. It's quite amazing really the whitewashed view of Turkey America has.

  6. #426
    Quote Originally Posted by Alceus View Post
    all the bordering countries hated us for our success to keep a good chunk of the ottoman empire for ourselves. And yes, they hate us because of exactly that. if we don't show any sign of power, might and nation love - Turkey would've been a bigger shithole than people assume.
    Europe signed and gave us those borders in treaties.
    You still refuse to learn real history. As I said many times already, until turks accept their own history of atrocities and violence they have no place in Europe.

  7. #427
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alceus View Post
    like american patriots?
    great, now we do something americans do and people hate us for that too.
    If the US applied to be part of the EU in my heart of hearts I wouldn't want them either. They aren't exactly paramount about human rights if it's not on their soil.

  8. #428
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cybran View Post
    You still refuse to learn real history. As I said many times already, until turks accept their own history of atrocities and violence they have no place in Europe.
    I study in Belgium, I don't get biased Turkish education =/

    People keep confusing Turks with ottomans. you say atrocities, so you confuse me.

  9. #429
    Deleted
    As much as I love kebabs I gotta say no.
    /sarcasm

    Seriously though, what would Turkey bring other than debt in the near future?
    I can't see them getting out of their debts any time soon.

  10. #430
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    Quote Originally Posted by ashankt View Post
    As much as I love kebabs I gotta say no.
    /sarcasm

    Seriously though, what would Turkey bring other than debt in the near future?
    I can't see them getting out of their debts any time soon.
    Every country has debt and no single country can get out of their debts.

  11. #431
    The Undying Wildtree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ashankt View Post
    As much as I love kebabs I gotta say no.
    /sarcasm

    Seriously though, what would Turkey bring other than debt in the near future?
    I can't see them getting out of their debts any time soon.
    Turkey is the world's largest producer of hazelnut, cherry, fig, apricot, quince and pomegranate;
    the second largest producer of watermelon, cucumber and chickpea;
    the third largest producer of tomato, eggplant, green pepper, lentil and pistachio;
    the fourth largest producer of onion and olive;
    the fifth largest producer of sugar beet;
    the sixth largest producer of tobacco, tea and apple;
    the seventh largest producer of cotton and barley; the eighth largest producer of almond;
    the ninth largest producer of wheat, rye and grapefruit,
    the tenth largest producer of lemon.
    Turkey has been self-sufficient in food production since the 1980s.
    the 7th largest automotive producer in Europe
    Turkey is one of the world's leading shipbuilding nations; in 2007 Turkish shipyards ranked 4th in the world (behind China, South Korea and Japan)
    Turkey ranks 10th in the list of countries by steel production.

    Do we need more, to approve them as EU benefit?

  12. #432
    Quote Originally Posted by Wildtree View Post
    Do we need more, to approve them as EU benefit?
    Yes. Make sure they stop using child labor in their factories.

    http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2010/08/turk-a18.html

    TurkStat calculates that at least 6 percent of children between the ages of 6 and 17 are working. More than 15 percent of children in this age group do not attend school, which points to how, as a consequence of the global economic crisis, child labour is rapidly increasing and depriving children of their basic rights.
    Last edited by Cybran; 2013-02-25 at 03:15 PM.

  13. #433
    The Undying Wildtree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cybran View Post
    Yes. Make sure they stop using child labor in their factories.
    Again. The topic is about negotiations......
    Negotiation means, to iron out the requirements that have to be met by Turkey to join...
    An outright refusal of it, is not an option.

    People claim, No. because Turkey is just another poor country... And that's an uneducated claim.

    Your response to my list has nothing to do with why I posted the list...
    I responded to this:
    what would Turkey bring other than debt in the near future?
    Last edited by Wildtree; 2013-02-25 at 03:19 PM.

  14. #434
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wildtree View Post
    Where do you have that from?
    As German, living with Turks in one community for decades. Let me give you a little deeper insight...
    Turks are very accepted in Germany from us. Like pointed out, they helped - like no other country - to rebuild our country. We know that.

    [snip]

    We smoked both their stuff and had a good time.
    You might want to cut down on the smoking, as this is completely absurd. When the "guest worker" programs started in the 60s Germany was fully rebuilt. It was rebuilt by Germans and the only country on the planet offering significant help was the US of A with the Marshall Plan.

    I doubt that "Turks are very accepted in Germany from us", certainly not on the same level as people from Italy, Spain, Portugal and the former Yugoslavia, who supplied the rest of the "guest workers". (Especially male) Turks are more likely to not finish school, more likely to go to prison for violent crime and less likely to find a job than every other significant immigrant group. An it's not a problem with the schools or immigration per se, as vietnamese and jewish immigrants just to name two outperform the average.

    If there was a plebiscite over turkish EU membership, there was no chance in hell of a majority in Germany voting for it. As there will be no referendum, I'm pretty confident the French or Irish will have to stop that missbegotten idea.

  15. #435
    Quote Originally Posted by Wildtree View Post
    Israel is a horrible choice.... And also for a number of reasons.
    It is not a developed democratic republic. It has, much like Turkey with the Armenian Genocide, the same done to the Palestine population. It's governments in the recent past are cocky aggressive warmongers driven by religious extremism. NO... Period NO....
    Israel can join the EU when the put down their arms. When they abolish their Zionist path. And finally make peace. The citizen of Israel, both jews and palestinians are all tired of that conflict. They want peace and just live their lives.
    who genocide the palestines??
    if there is some one resposable for their poor fate its the arab nations around who declined the U.N offer for two countries in 1947 and told them to run from their homes due to the impending war they are about to open on the tiny 24H old U.N authorized country called israel (there was never a U.N country called palastine)...
    and when they tried again and again over the years and failed ,at the end - they didnt give a $@# about the arabs who fled their homes back in 1947 and desert them but still use them as a base for every hatred excuse against israel cause life is cheap in the arab nations.

    unlike the arabs who didnt run away and accepted israel now enjoy full democratic equation as Citizens and are now lawyers doctors high-tech engineers living the "american dream" instead of being poor farmers under tyrant greedy leaders like their counterparts all over from Tunisia to iran..

    who supply gas/electricity/water/food and jobs to gaza? Egypt ? no, they supply only means of war like syria to escalate the situation cause its easy to educate the un-educated people to only hate and die if needed...its easy for the arab leaders to keep the palastiniens like that cause life is cheap..

    in 20 years when a muslim guy will pour acid on your 16 years old daughter in the center of london only cause she had a mini skirt you would wish to come live in israel.

  16. #436
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    Quote Originally Posted by john duo View Post
    who genocide the palestines??
    if there is some one resposable for their poor fate its the arab nations around who declined the U.N offer for two countries in 1947 and told them to run from their homes due to the impending war they are about to open on the tiny 24H old U.N authorized country called israel (there was never a U.N country called palastine)...
    and when they tried again and again over the years and failed ,at the end - they didnt give a $@# about the arabs who fled their homes back in 1947 and desert them but still use them as a base for every hatred excuse against israel cause life is cheap in the arab nations.

    unlike the arabs who didnt run away and accepted israel now enjoy full democratic equation as Citizens and are now lawyers doctors high-tech engineers living the "american dream" instead of being poor farmers under tyrant greedy leaders like their counterparts all over from Tunisia to iran..

    who supply gas/electricity/water/food and jobs to gaza? Egypt ? no, they supply only means of war like syria to escalate the situation cause its easy to educate the un-educated people to only hate and die if needed...its easy for the arab leaders to keep the palastiniens like that cause life is cheap..

    in 20 years when a muslim guy will pour acid on your 16 years old daughter in the center of london only cause she had a mini skirt you would wish to come live in israel.
    Solve your government problem first. creating black sheeps is exactly what triggers hostility.

  17. #437
    Quote Originally Posted by VelmuVeera View Post
    in addition it's an islamic country.
    This is what it comes down to...''the people in Turkey aren't Christian''. Let me burst a bubble, their isn't a European culture.

    But you know what, at least the Turkish government isn't ruled by it's religion compared to most of the EU countries. In Turkey the separation of religion and state is absolute and only in recent years the restrictions have been lessened but not in any governing way.

    The issues the politicians from different countries have is different though. They would all gladly accept any benefits that Turkey may bring (even those that are anti-turkey) but they don't really want to pay for it, that's why you often see the politicians from different countries suggest ''a special partner-ship'' between the EU countries and Turkey. Recently the same thing is being shouted by the government of the UK, some people would gladly benefit from being a member of the EU but at the same time they don't really want to pay for the potential benefits.

    If the EU is going to reject Turkey it should be based on facts and not numbers pulled out of somebody's ass (like most of the ''facts'' stated in this topic).

  18. #438
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    Quote Originally Posted by ati87 View Post
    This is what it comes down to...''the people in Turkey aren't Christian''. Let me burst a bubble, their isn't a European culture.

    But you know what, at least the Turkish government isn't ruled by it's religion compared to most of the EU countries. In Turkey the separation of religion and state is absolute and only in recent years the restrictions have been lessened but not in any governing way.

    The issues the politicians from different countries have is different though. They would all gladly accept any benefits that Turkey may bring (even those that are anti-turkey) but they don't really want to pay for it, that's why you often see the politicians from different countries suggest ''a special partner-ship'' between the EU countries and Turkey. Recently the same thing is being shouted by the government of the UK, some people would gladly benefit from being a member of the EU but at the same time they don't really want to pay for the potential benefits.

    If the EU is going to reject Turkey it should be based on facts and not numbers pulled out of somebody's ass (like most of the ''facts'' stated in this topic).
    agree'd.

    Turkey is not ready for EU and vice versa.

    IF the problems in the middle-east stabilize, maybe then. But not any time soon.

  19. #439
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by john duo View Post
    in 20 years when a muslim guy will pour acid on your 16 years old daughter in the center of london only cause she had a mini skirt you would wish to come live in israel.
    Well this makes perfect sense.
    Congratulations for an objective, constructive, well written, on topic post.
    Your opinion is noted, thank you.

  20. #440
    Quote Originally Posted by Djalil View Post
    Well this makes perfect sense.
    Congratulations for an objective, constructive, well written, on topic post.
    Your opinion is noted, thank you.
    dont be blunt , find the original reply and check what does it reply about.

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