1. #1

    My Sim results...

    Hi all,

    In a spot of bother with my simulation results. (Armoury is in my signature)

    I run with 50,000 iterations, length of 450 seconds and with a patchwerk style.

    I know the general stat priority is Intellect > Spell Hit (15%) = Haste (Breakpoint) > Mastery > Haste (Past Breakpoint)> Crit.

    On reforgelite I have made sure that in the advanced settings, any haste after 4717 has a value of 0. Therefore, my reforges try to optimize hit to 5100 and haste to 4717 with rest in mastery.

    However: My stat weights are now:

    Hit: 1.89

    Crit: 1.58

    Haste: 2.44

    Mastery: 2.39

    I have rerun my simulation with my current stats: 4722 haste (close to the breakpoint as possible).

    However, this sim is now saying haste has a bit better scaling, therefore, should I take away the "cap" of 4717 on my reforgelite and then keep rerunning the sim to get the optimum reforges?

    Or should I go for the next breakpoint (which I am unsure what it is) - and I am not sure I can get that in my 491 ilevel?

    What should I do? Thank you.
    Hypnagogic - 90 Warlock - http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...nagogic/simple
    Draenor EU - Myst - 25 Man - 9/14 HC

  2. #2
    Re run the sim with reforge plots for haste and mastery. Specify probably ~1k reforge with ~100 step amounts. This will tell you how much of a stat you can change into another for a specific gain.

  3. #3
    Thank you for quick reply, I will do this and then post my results.
    Hypnagogic - 90 Warlock - http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...nagogic/simple
    Draenor EU - Myst - 25 Man - 9/14 HC

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Kontempt View Post
    Or should I go for the next breakpoint (which I am unsure what it is) - and I am not sure I can get that in my 491 ilevel?
    The next breakpoint (which I don't think you can comfortably get, yet) is at 6636 haste rating.

    Just so you know, but the relation between haste and mastery is very muddy, and even with very good warlocks wondering about this we haven't gotten a definitive answer on what to do. Nangz's advice is very good, it will show you the Haste situation for your specific gear.

    Most likely the best course of action will be to keep the 4717 haste cap and dump the rest in Mastery untill you can comfortably get the 6636 haste rating at around 495-500 ilevel. This at least is what most warlocks have done when faced with this problem.

  5. #5
    Here are my plots...



    I have just really looked at this for about 20 seconds and I have made some quick assumptions; I am new to this so any help to what this means, please.

    Does this mean I can reforge about 400 more points in to Haste to make it a dps increase (albeit, very minimal?)

    Or am I reading this completely wrong?
    Hypnagogic - 90 Warlock - http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...nagogic/simple
    Draenor EU - Myst - 25 Man - 9/14 HC

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Kontempt View Post

    Does this mean I can reforge about 400 more points in to Haste to make it a dps increase (albeit, very minimal?)

    Or am I reading this completely wrong?
    No, seems about right.

    The muddy part comes when you look that it also seems to say that you'd be even in DPS if you went + ~800 Mastery, which would put you just below a haste point. That part is what we can't really explain consistently, cause according to normal logic it should be a loss. We also don't really know what the extra 400 haste actually achieves that results in the DPS gain.

  7. #7
    Yes, this is why it didn't make sense for me as it says that my mastery has a lower weight, when in reality on the plots; shows a significant DPS increase from taking away more haste...

    hmm ok then, thanks for your help I'll stay at 4717 until I get enough gear for 6636 haste

    Thanks for help.
    Last edited by Kontempt; 2013-02-24 at 07:33 PM.
    Hypnagogic - 90 Warlock - http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...nagogic/simple
    Draenor EU - Myst - 25 Man - 9/14 HC

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by xskarma View Post
    No, seems about right.

    The muddy part comes when you look that it also seems to say that you'd be even in DPS if you went + ~800 Mastery, which would put you just below a haste point. That part is what we can't really explain consistently, cause according to normal logic it should be a loss. We also don't really know what the extra 400 haste actually achieves that results in the DPS gain.
    I think you're reading the graph wrong xskarma.



    To the right of 0 is reforging x amount of mastery into haste, so -mastery + haste. To the left of 0 is reforging haste into mastery, so -haste + mastery.

    He would get the biggest DPS increase by reforging about 400 haste into mastery and keeping other stats equal.

  9. #9
    Yeah pretty sure Brusalk is right. "Haste to Mastery" means reforging haste into mastery, -haste, +mastery.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Brusalk View Post
    I think you're reading the graph wrong xskarma.
    Euh, I totally did, completely the other way around. /facepalm

    The general thought seems okay though. We don't know why SimC says he should go slightly below a haste breakpoint, or why precisely we gain when we are up to 600 points above it.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by xskarma View Post
    Euh, I totally did, completely the other way around. /facepalm

    The general thought seems okay though. We don't know why SimC says he should go slightly below a haste breakpoint, or why precisely we gain when we are up to 600 points above it.
    I played a spriest for the vast majority of my time playing WoW and there was a point where spriests gained damage by hitting haste points that weren't defined by DoTs, but instead by hitting the point where you could get a specific number of full casts of Mind Flay off between Mind Blasts. I wouldn't be surprised if the points that we're seeing with affliction that don't quite match up with DoT breakpoints are actually the points where you can get full MG ticks with no wasted time in between DoT refreshes/Haunt durations.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Brusalk View Post
    I played a spriest for the vast majority of my time playing WoW and there was a point where spriests gained damage by hitting haste points that weren't defined by DoTs, but instead by hitting the point where you could get a specific number of full casts of Mind Flay off between Mind Blasts. I wouldn't be surprised if the points that we're seeing with affliction that don't quite match up with DoT breakpoints are actually the points where you can get full MG ticks with no wasted time in between DoT refreshes/Haunt durations.
    Hmm, that would take some serious theory crafting to find out is my guess, but it makes a lot of sense as an explanation.

  13. #13
    i get s a similar result, however it completely depends which skilllevel i set, if i put it at elite i get haste>mastery, if i put it at good i get mastery>haste, so i think it has more to do with this.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by almara2512 View Post
    i get s a similar result, however it completely depends which skilllevel i set, if i put it at elite i get haste>mastery, if i put it at good i get mastery>haste, so i think it has more to do with this.
    Well all changing the skillevel does is change the amount of time simcraft arbitrarily waits for before executing the next command, as a way to simulate player skill by differing reaction times. It makes sense that haste would be valued higher the better reaction time you have, and that it would be valued lower the less quickly you react to events.

  15. #15
    Aff is in a weird place right now with such complex mechanics due to Pandemic, static dot updates and MG mechanics that I wonder sometimes about how much Simcraft actually works for the class, as play varies so much throughout the course of an encounter, as well as between encounters

  16. #16
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  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Kontempt View Post
    On reforgelite I have made sure that in the advanced settings, any haste after 4717 has a value of 0. Therefore, my reforges try to optimize hit to 5100 and haste to 4717 with rest in mastery.
    The value of haste after 4717 is not 0, it's still better than crit.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by xskarma View Post
    Hmm, that would take some serious theory crafting to find out is my guess, but it makes a lot of sense as an explanation.
    This used to be the case before you could "safely" clip dots. This kind of mechanic shouldn't enter into affliction dps too much and only enters into demo when you're looking at the number of fillers you can cast and still correctly stack the second HoG. There might be some optimal number of ticks per haunt duration before you need to cast it again but since haunt can also be clipped I don't see this being likely considering the tick speed of MG and DS.
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  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by darlissa View Post
    The value of haste after 4717 is not 0, it's still better than crit.
    Yes, but on reforgelite, I have priority on mastery when haste as got to 4717, therefore I have put the weight to 0 after the first haste cap because theoretically, if i can't reach the next plateau, haste has minimal value compared to mastery.
    Hypnagogic - 90 Warlock - http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...nagogic/simple
    Draenor EU - Myst - 25 Man - 9/14 HC

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Kontempt View Post
    because theoretically, if i can't reach the next plateau, haste has minimal value compared to mastery.
    Well that's not the case. It's our main problem while figuring out Haste/Mastery levels. Haste and Mastery have a symbiotic relationship, and with Pandemic haste breakpoints are of less importance cause we rarely see the extra ticks we gain. It's why some people have found it's best to keep haste and mastery at about even levels, with slightly more Mastery. There's probably people that can explain it all in detail but that's what I've taken away from the many, many discussions on the topic in Mists. To be honest though, the difference between adhering strictly to haste caps or keeping haste/mastery more even has been small.

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