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  1. #41
    Bloodsail Admiral nerdjames's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hogmanlolz View Post
    No offense to PvPers hear me out I like pvp but is it techically a side game, every major patch a new raid/dungeon gets released but not new pvp maps. It would be cool if they did a CoD style with map packs(free of course) every major patch. Anyways is PvP a side game to blizz?
    Are you asking us, or telling us? Either way, pvp isn't a side game. Competitive/ranked pvp could be thought of as an afterthought as far as the original scope of the game is concerned, and Blizzard certainly has a tendency to put less effort into it, but it's a developed enough aspect at this point to be considered its own game. Maps are a pretty irrelevant point. As much as I've liked their recent battlegrounds, I'd be perfectly satisfied to spend all my playtime in Nagrand Arena so long as class balance is decent and the game is fun. I feel like if you constantly need new maps to be entertained it's because the game is garbage in the first place (i.e. CoD).

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Mormolyce View Post
    Essentially, yes. It started out as kind of an afterthought (which is pretty obvious even today). They've put a lot of effort over the years into improving it and balancing it but it's a constant struggle. Every time PVE changes occur, it breaks PVP and they have to play catch up again.

    Not to disregard PVP, it can be a lot of fun, but it's pretty clear to everyone that WoW is a PVE game and PVP is its poor cousin. It'll never be truly balanced.



    Not that many, and usually just things like spreading out burst over longer windows which has little effect on PVE.
    no like all warrior nerfs. or like all hunter nerfs. are all for pvp. but they some1 try to mange to effect pve as little as possible. like smaller bursts but more often. doesn't really effect pve. but hits pvp like a truck.

  3. #43
    Anyone want the badge system back? I liked it better -_- I feel they could easily do more with it but what is unknown to me :P Im happy enough with achievments tbh the meta ones like battlemaster/area master and bloodthirsty is pretty beastly more would be nice as always, but on the side of maps, they get old fast and people would demand them every patch tbh
    Have faith in the light,
    And the strength of its weilders.

  4. #44
    I wish PvP was a side game only in wow when I see all this QQ here.
    Sadly, its not a side game.

  5. #45
    Alright. Here's the deal. PvP was an afterthought, but it's garnered so much attention from players, that Blizzard has been forced to focus on it more than they'd like. World of Warcraft is, by all means, a PvE game, but Blizzard has done a LOT over the years to facilitate serious PvP. Everyone who cries about balance hasn't really played many other MMOs. Especially many other MMOs that focus primarily on PvE with a side order of PvP. Not many games of World of Warcraft's type have nearly as much balance as World of Warcraft. In fact, it's almost miraculous that they have balanced it so well. Yes, there will always be balance issues. It's impossible to perfectly balance the game unless all melee were copy-pastes of one another, all healers are copy-pastes of one another and all ranged are copy-pastes of each other. 34 playable specs, many that vary wildly, in which every tank, every healer, and every damage dealer can participate in both PvE and PvP and still be viable, granted not always as competitively. Also taking into account the added layer of complexity that various professions add to the balancing act, different gem and enchantment setups, and even different trinket usages...

    World of Warcraft does it all surprisingly well... PvP is more balanced in WoW than it is even in some PvP-centric MMORPGs.

    Again, it's not perfect. It won't ever be perfect. But it's a lot better than some people try to make it out to be.

    But at the end of the day, World of Warcraft is still a PvE-centric game.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huntingbear_grimbatol View Post
    Right, because "pvp" realms are played because people choose so and not because their guild is there or their friends are there. I'm all for world pvp, that's not the issue. The issue is when pvp geared people meet those who aren't. Simply making all "resilience" ratings only "on" in BGs, arenas and pvp areas like wintergrasp or other pvp zones like that would fix that error.

    And PvP not hurting class balance in PvE? (this goes both ways btw)
    Ret paladins, IF we get too strong damage then we can kill people in a stun, that ontop of bubble, hand of freedom and selfheals and hand of sac to stop sheeps and so on gets too much. So instead of increasing damage which rets need in PvE and PvP blizzard try to work on "support" and survivability changes for pvp to compensate, WHY? Oh just because nobody wants a repeat of the time ret paladins went around with Seal of Blood and 3 shotted people at WotLK launch.
    Rets have great utility and good survivability and a toolkit that clears many mobility things, if that gets combined with strong damage it will be unbalanced. Sadly survivability, utiliy and mobility doesn't help in PvE when you're rock bottom dps single target and aoe.

    Same goes for other classes. Elemental shamans hurt in pve and pvp atm because of the same reasons, they can burst like hell and if the base damage allows it then it's gonna be unbalanced in pvp. What happens is that ele shamans are weak in both parts of the game (buffed in 5.2 unlike ret tho)

    Then there's examples on how pve sometimes ruin pvp balance. Disc priests are really strong in pve this patch, next patch they're getting mana and absorb nerfed quite hard which is gonna hurt pvp. How much it's gonna hurt pvp disc priests I don't know but I'd imagine they'll feel it.
    Seal of Blood wasn't the cause for 3.0 ridiculousness. It was early versions of glyphs (20% crusader damage on a stunned target) and Judgment auto-crits on stunned targets with Seal of Command, and Divine Storm hit like a truck and was pure Holy.

    I'm not sure what you are talking about with "great utility and good survivability." We fight Ret Paladins since I have stopped playing Ret on our team and it is laughable. Freedom? Purged. Bubble? Wait 8 seconds, jump to healer and harass him so he cannot heal the paladin. Pally pops CD's? He's in a cyclone/fear/etc for 15 seconds. The only way Ret will become overpowered is if the Devs don't stop basing the spec to be a 2 minute wonder and just flat out buff them. That isn't going to happen, so Ret is stuck being subpar until they finally realize that Ret needs some pretty serious buff (a new utility skill). Absolve was a stupid addition that doesn't solve anything. If I want a dps that can cleanse, priests can do it every 15 seconds.

    Ret is not rock bottom on PvE DPS. Don't act like it is. It isn't amazing, but its far from rock bottom.

    And if you followed friends to a PvP realm, then deal with it or have them come fight in World PvP. Obviously they wanted it. The disc changes are actually looking fine for PvP, considering they will have pretty strong crit heals and will be pretty damn tanky.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUntsAhts View Post

    Ret is not rock bottom on PvE DPS. Don't act like it is. It isn't amazing, but its far from rock bottom.
    .
    actually according to some of the sims i've seen ret IS the lowest parsing spec in the game. even arms warriors are parsing higher right now ( and fury, like usual is in the top 5)
    " I need a sec, my wrists hurt from spamming slam so hard. Playing cleave vs cleave is tough stuff guys"

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by kosechi View Post
    actually according to some of the sims i've seen ret IS the lowest parsing spec in the game. even arms warriors are parsing higher right now ( and fury, like usual is in the top 5)
    On what fights? When? An aoe fight? Did the arms use sweeping strikes? Because...

    http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Overall_D...14/60/default/

    Ret is far from the bottom. That being said, there are still massive gaps between specs. Personally, I put less stock in sims than I do with parses, but I haven't seen any info on 5.2 parses.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Peng View Post
    There is this "World" of Warcraft that noone ever visits. Beside that we have some mini games such as BG, RBG, Arena, Dungeon, LFR, LFG, Pet Battles, Challenge Modes. It seems to be an impossible task for Blizz to get these together in one game.

    See the new daily quests in Krasarang for example. They want to offer an opportunity for open PvP. But then this area is so cramped with quite hard hitting npc that it seems to be the better choice to do those quests in PvE gear and to pass on PvP action. Or to gank those who are questing in PvE gear. ^^

    I really don´t understand why we need to have different gear for PvE and PvP. There was a valid reason in classic when T3 was a) too powerful and b) better than PvP gear. But Resilience (and now PvP-Power) was implemented in a wrong way. It would have been better, if Resilience was derived from Stamina and PvP-Power was derived from the main stat on ALL items (PvE and PvP). They could even be hidden stats. To balance accessibility Blizz would have to offer the same iLvl in PvP and PvE: 463 for BG or Dungeons, 476 for LFR or PvP-Rating below 1500, ..., 504 for HC-Raiders or 2400+ PvP-Rating. Something like this.
    How about no? Btw 2400+ is far, far, far, far, far, far harder than heroic raiding. Heroic raiding is a joke compared to high rated PvP once the world firsts are done.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUntsAhts View Post
    On what fights? When? An aoe fight? Did the arms use sweeping strikes? Because...

    http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Overall_D...14/60/default/

    Ret is far from the bottom. That being said, there are still massive gaps between specs. Personally, I put less stock in sims than I do with parses, but I haven't seen any info on 5.2 parses.
    do you know what a "SIM" is? or do i have to explain it to you? there is no T15 raidbots data right now since most of the guilds testing it are running private logs, all we have to go on is sims, and all the sims show ret at the bottom. i have one iteration that shows balance at the bottom, but that was the only outlier.
    Last edited by kosechi; 2013-02-25 at 09:18 PM.
    " I need a sec, my wrists hurt from spamming slam so hard. Playing cleave vs cleave is tough stuff guys"

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by kosechi View Post
    do you know what a "SIM" is? or do i have to explain it to you? there is no T15 raidbots data right now since most of the guilds testing it are running private logs, all we have to go on is sims, and all the sims show ret at the bottom. i have one iteration that shows balance at the bottom, but that was the only outlier.
    Then why are you acting like OMG ARMS IS ABOVE US!!!!!!
    Not many classes are getting that severe of damage buffs compared to Ret, so I don't understand how Ret is suddenly OMG bottom of barrel. Links to these sims?

  12. #52
    Legendary! Korgoth's Avatar
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    Or you can look at it like every major patch includes a new PVP season, PvP balancing, and some scripted co-op content. Like FPS DLC having CoOP zombie maps to go with the new PvP maps.
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  13. #53
    It started as a side game, it wasn't even in the game at release. Yes there were PVP servers but there were No Battlegrounds, No Arenas, and No PVP Gear. If I recall correctly as it was a long time ago, the first thing for PVP added was in 1.4.0 the patch it's self was called Call to War. I cannot really take it seriously because of that fact.

    The fact they say they aren't forcing players to participate in PVP who hate it, yet even on PVE servers you get flagged near horde towns like it's a PVP server still pisses me off too. They are very hypocritical imo .... but that is an entirely different kettle of fish. -.-
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  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Keristrasza View Post
    It started as a side game, it wasn't even in the game at release. Yes there were PVP servers but there were No Battlegrounds, No Arenas, and No PVP Gear. If I recall correctly as it was a long time ago, the first thing for PVP added was in 1.4.0 the patch it's self was called Call to War. I cannot really take it seriously because of that fact.
    Yet (perhaps ironically) PvP was much better without those abominations.

  15. #55
    Bloodsail Admiral nerdjames's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keristrasza View Post
    It started as a side game, it wasn't even in the game at release. Yes there were PVP servers but there were No Battlegrounds, No Arenas, and No PVP Gear. If I recall correctly as it was a long time ago, the first thing for PVP added was in 1.4.0 the patch it's self was called Call to War. I cannot really take it seriously because of that fact.

    The fact they say they aren't forcing players to participate in PVP who hate it, yet even on PVE servers you get flagged near horde towns like it's a PVP server still pisses me off too. They are very hypocritical imo .... but that is an entirely different kettle of fish. -.-
    Warcraft started as an RTS. I don't know what Blizzard thinks they're doing trying to make an MMO happen, but I'm not going for it. If it's not Orcs and Humans I just can't take it seriously.

  16. #56
    Mmh, last 2 years I've almost solely played PvP. Just lost interest in PvE after having to deal with guilds breaking up(I was the guild master), too much effort in my opinion to keep a guild together especially when you want to play with rl friends.

  17. #57
    PvP is less balanced than pet battles and that's saying a lot.

  18. #58
    Arena is a side game, pvp is not

  19. #59
    It's not called Wrath of the PvP King, or PvPwing, or whatever...

    WoW is a PvE game, with a PvP side game.

    Similarly, Call of Duty is a PvP game, with a 4 hour PvE side game to it.


    What's annoying is to constantly have to hear from people whining about how PvP is done in a PvE game.

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Hogmanlolz View Post
    No offense to PvPers hear me out I like pvp but is it techically a side game, every major patch a new raid/dungeon gets released but not new pvp maps. It would be cool if they did a CoD style with map packs(free of course) every major patch. Anyways is PvP a side game to blizz?

    Obviously yes it is. This game was designed with PvE as the primary. PvP used to be what people could make up for themselves. Look at Tauren Mill and south shore in vanilla. Are they trying to make it right now....absolutely. They even admitted during Wrath that Arena was a bad idea and wished they never did it (look up source yourself....you can access google just like everyone else).

    This is absolutely a PvE game first and a PvP game second.

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