Page 1 of 14
1
2
3
11
... LastLast
  1. #1

    Ensidia Buzzkill's blog about wow community managers and nostalgia

    http://www.manaflask.com/en/article/...-and-nostalgia

    "I realize, like most of WoW nostalgics out there, that the game was flawed at that time. We’re not delusional in thinking that World of Warcraft was perfect 7-8 years ago, far from it. But there’s more to a game than its technical part, especially in MMO’s there’s the community factor. You can have the best game out there, and if you have no one playing it, it’s worthless. And don’t think I’m delusional about the old community either, it was filled with equal amounts of morons, retards and c**ts that it is today, but it was the old guys… ones that were a part of your personal experience and thus much better than the kids today. I played a warlock, second most broken class in a very broken game, if anyone experienced the un-finished and un-polished state of the game at the time, it was warlocks and hunters. I have no illusions about it; WoW was flawed in more than one aspect. Even putting aside bad servers, an impractical travel system, gross unbalance between classes and builds, the game was at its rawest, its most primal and for most people its most fun. There’s something about the way things worked, you didn’t teleport around the world, and you had a feeling of continuity and a feeling of being in one big shared world. Nowadays, and in most modern MMO’s, there’s very little need for travel and knowing your surroundings and community, someone might instantly dismiss the old ways as obsolete and needlessly time consuming, but it did draw you closer to the realm and its people. Yeah, traveling to the completely opposite site of the world just to join a different battleground does sound and was very tedious and annoying, but the impracticality of it made you actually have a feeling that you were a part of the server, much more than today. Not that I ever liked it, and not that I really ever liked gathering a group for hours at a time, just to see them get lost on the way to the instance, losing my mind while trying to organize even the simplest of 5 man groups, I did miss it once it was not needed anymore."
    Last edited by Horseface; 2013-02-26 at 01:19 PM.

  2. #2
    The feeling of a persistent world, one of the most fundamental aspects of the MMORPG, is something that has been eroded nearly completely with all the changes made to the game and how you interact in it socially. Probably the biggest reason I no longer play. Many of those old mechanics (or lack thereof) viewed as annoyances were really meant to act as catalysts for social encounters, which is pretty much the point of the game. Most of my best memories will always be trying to complete some difficult quest or dungeon, finding other players on the realm to complete them with, and forming long term bonds with them. The chat roulette-like nature of the automated queueing systems, along with transforming questing into a second rate single player experience, has all but killed those kinds of situations.

  3. #3
    Mechagnome Nemah's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Central US
    Posts
    662
    “When people talk about the good old days, I say to people, 'It's not the days that are old, it's you that's old.' I hate the good old days. What is important is that today is good.”
    ― Karl Lagerfeld

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Lazy Gecko View Post
    The feeling of a persistent world, one of the most fundamental aspects of the MMORPG, is something that has been eroded nearly completely with all the changes made to the game and how you interact in it socially. Probably the biggest reason I no longer play. Many of those old mechanics (or lack thereof) viewed as annoyances were really meant to act as catalysts for social encounters, which is pretty much the point of the game. Most of my best memories will always be trying to complete some difficult quest or dungeon, finding other players on the realm to complete them with, and forming long term bonds with them. The chat roulette-like nature of the automated queueing systems, along with transforming questing into a second rate single player experience, has all but killed those kinds of situations.
    Reminiscent of the discussion presented by this topic:

    http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...ld-we-feel-bad

    From a few days ago. World of Warcraft is always evolving because Blizzard knows if things were exactly as they were in Vanilla or even TBC, the game wouldn't still be as successful as it is now. But I have to agree, I think that playing x-server or even x-realm definitely presents a feeling of disconnect when playing in BGs or instances because you probably won't see these people ever again. Not to mention the fact that you barely ever have to actually traverse the world to get from one place to the other. Maybe the 5.2 patch with the "Dino Isle" will bring back some fond memories. (No flying mounts, etc.)

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Nemah View Post
    “When people talk about the good old days, I say to people, 'It's not the days that are old, it's you that's old.' I hate the good old days. What is important is that today is good.”
    ― Karl Lagerfeld
    Actually he analyzes that also in that blog.

    "Humans are a funny animal; we tend to look at our previous experiences in life as superior to our current ones, in most cases at least. I personally look at the 90’s as the golden age of music, games in the latter part of the decade are my favorites by a big stretch, and some of my favorite movies tend to be in that era as well and so on. Most of us look at things through rose-tinted glasses when it comes to certain old experiences (I’d imagine rape victims would disagree with me here) and as the blue poster in question said, we tend to ignore bad experiences and remember the fonder ones, which is definitely true. But that doesn’t mean we should ignore those feelings and try to rationalize it like that. Sure, perhaps we don’t remember all the bad memories, but that doesn’t mean our perception of that time is any less real or important."
    Last edited by Horseface; 2013-02-24 at 09:31 PM.

  6. #6
    Most of WOW's changes I agree are for the better, removing the persistent world we had to travel through was a bad choice and ultimately has damaged the game in the name of convenience. It's hard to believe we used to dream of being forced to travel a world to get to actual persistent places in a video game and pushed the technology until we could finally do it, only to backtrack in this way to a world of teleport pads and portals.

    Too many people have no appreciation for aesthetics and don't understand why inconvenience ultimately can enrich an overall experience. This is why lottery winners are statistically so unhappy.

    There's no point in discussing it with someone who doesn't appreciate the point of view in the first place. This is NOT an issue of rose tinted goggles for the people who care about this sort of thing, out of the many superficial complaints about this game that actually are just nostalgia goggles making you biased.
    If you like my draw-rings. http://yig.deviantart.com/
    If you can't find them for some reason beyond that page. http://yig.deviantart.com/gallery/
    WOW screenshot and concept art gallery http://smg.photobucket.com/user/evilknick/library/WoW

  7. #7
    Mechagnome Nemah's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Central US
    Posts
    662
    Why the long face?

    These posts are all the same, and I'll never understand why they continue to appear on this and other message boards. I come at this from the viewpoint of a veteran WoW player, having begun my career there a few months before TBC went live. I never got to raid the Vanilla raids when they were current, but I was in the process of working toward that when TBC came out. I had bought my epic ground mount, done my Dreadsteed and Doomguard / Infernal quests, and scavenged up the means to become attuned to Naxxramas.

    My "real" (or raiding) time began in TBC and it was all great fun outside of the same complaints you'll see in this thread later or the other 1000 that raise the identical points. Yes there was more a community and yes everything was a great big pain in the ass. There are times when I miss the "good ol' days" of WoW, but there are most that I don't. There are certainly features in the game now that I don't feel good about (pet battles, casualization, etc) but in the end it's just evolution.

    Very few things remain static for any length of time, much less 8+ years. Why is this so hard to accept for some players? The game evolves, so do we. I will always look back on my TBC days - and my leveling experience in Vanilla - with some measure of nostalgia and warm fuzzies....but it wasn't sustainable. If it was sustainable, Blizzard would have kept everything exactly how it was.

    The changes of the game are not to make you like or dislike it. The changes are an issue of survival, and of Blizzard keeping as many people on the hook as possible, because that's how the company keeps its heart beating.

    Whether our perceptions are real or important is irrelevant. Blizzard is interested in keeping its subscriptions up and they will change, grow, de-grow, and evolve the game as they see fit to accomplish that. What *is* relevant is your personal evolution as a gamer, and having the sense to know when to cash in and move on. Anyone that hangs around in a game that makes them unhappy, sad, or for god's sake bitter is hanging onto those old memories far too much and for far too long.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Nemah View Post
    “When people talk about the good old days, I say to people, 'It's not the days that are old, it's you that's old.' I hate the good old days. What is important is that today is good.”
    ― Karl Lagerfeld
    If a Nazi Guard in a Jewish Concentration camp said that to a prison detainee who longs for the "good old days" when they weren't in a camp, would the guard be right?

    Now, obviously WoW isn't a prison camp. (must... resist... cynical social-based jokes! :P) But the point remains that sometimes what one "longs" for in a good old day isn't just nostalgia/pining, but actually may be bringing up a great point that we're missing today.

    I remember when Scream came out, and the actress in their said "People today realize that horror is a bit silly, so it really shouldn't be taken seriously". And I just sighed saying "man, they miss the whole POINT of horror".

    ...a few years later the J-Horror fad hit, and I smiled as it proved how wrong they were. ^_^
    "Tell them only that the Lich King is dead... and that World of Warcraft... died with him..."

    Quote Originally Posted by BenBos View Post
    That's the ONLY reason you would post 9600 posts over 3 years: a mission of hate.

  9. #9
    Mechagnome Nemah's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Central US
    Posts
    662
    Quote Originally Posted by mvallas View Post
    If a Nazi Guard in a Jewish Concentration camp said that to a prison detainee who longs for the "good old days" when they weren't in a camp, would the guard be right?
    Well. Just like everything else in this thread, that's awfully subjective, don't you think?

    Though I would agree that there are *some* times where nostalgia / longing ends up being productive in some way, those times are few and far between. I would go on to suggest that they are even more few and far between in MMO gaming forums (and the game's forums themselves), particularly in the face of what at least appears to be a rather clear cut development strategy on the part of the developer. Especially when the topic has been done a 1000, 1000 times already.

    In the end, I maintain that these posts don't serve much purpose; but that too is subjective.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Nemah View Post
    Why the long face?
    That applies to you also. You just replied with one quote said by some Lager motherfucker, what by no means isnt even true. Remembering "good old days" is vital what makes us human. If you would live without fond memories, well I guess that's called living a boring life.

  11. #11
    Amazing post, it sums up a good amount of my thoughts.

    Quote Originally Posted by Horseface View Post
    c**ts
    Now which word could this be?

  12. #12
    Titan Nixx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    ooo es eh
    Posts
    12,336
    A lot of what I miss about "old" WoW is really just the ignorance I had about how the game worked and what all was out there. As I play longer, I accumulate knowledge of the game much faster than most aspects can generate new things to learn about, leading to the game feeling ever smaller and less exciting. The community has certainly changed due to LFD, LFR, and now CRZ and a lot of other things, but those changes really pale in comparison to the simple fact that I have nearly six years of WoW knowledge now as opposed to none when I started.

  13. #13
    Mechagnome Nemah's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Central US
    Posts
    662
    Quote Originally Posted by Horseface View Post
    That applies to you also. You just replied with one quote said by some Lager motherfucker, what by no means isnt even true. Remembering "good old days" is vital what makes us human. If you would live without fond memories, well I guess that's called living a boring life.
    No, that was just a play on your name that I should've resisted but didn't.

    Remembering the good old days does not make us human, it makes us stuck in the past. What makes us human is our ability to learn, grow, evolve, and most forward through our lives.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Nemah View Post
    Remembering the good old days does not make us human, it makes us stuck in the past. What makes us human is our ability to learn, grow, evolve, and most forward through our lives.
    Yeah, but memories are also part what we are.

  15. #15
    Legendary! Sigma's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    England, Earth, Sol Star System, Milkyway Galaxy
    Posts
    6,857
    Quote Originally Posted by McNeil View Post
    Now which word could this be?
    Cats of course. obvious typo

    But have to agree, its the older players getting older.

  16. #16
    Mechagnome Nemah's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Central US
    Posts
    662
    Quote Originally Posted by Horseface View Post
    Yeah, but memories are also part what we are.
    Memories are great and all....sometimes they're even referred to as "experiences." Those memories / experiences are useful in that they help us navigate through an ever-changing world (real or in an MMO per this discussion thread) and make decisions about how we will adapt to those changes. In the end, though - it's decisions we make that keep us in a place we love, used to love, or don't love at all.

    Nostalgia is a feeling, and like most feelings it isn't terribly useful in the face of a changing environment.

  17. #17
    "It was fun because it was frustrating and boring" about what I got out of it. The immersion factor is all well and good but at the expense of convenience? Do those of us with lives really want to waste several hours at a time travelling and trying to get groups? No, we don't because we don't have time for that shit we want to actually do something with our time and that's why it gets streamlined. And that's why anything get streamlined. Why do something this way when you can get the same results with a fraction of the effort. That's not laziness that's being rational.

  18. #18
    The main flaw with the "single, persistent world" design is travel. Travel doesn't add anything, it actually detracts from the experience. It's just a loading screen by a different name. As the world gets bigger, and the places you might be interested become farther apart, travel becomes more and more of a burden, until you start dismissing events, locations or lore because you don't want to spend several play sessions passing through places you've already completed.

    The idea of a persistent world was nice, but it's not all it's cracked up to be.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by dki07 View Post
    That's not laziness that's being rational.
    You clearly didnt understand his post. The whole idea of traveling was that then people would "clash" together and when game requires more effort to move to other places, it isnt about convenience, it's about to have more depth. When you are traveling you can meet other players and create better game experience.

  20. #20
    I don't like Buzzkill's blogs. They are usually elitist and very mean towards other people he used to play with. Occasionally, he'll say something insightful, though. I don't particularly agree with this current post. I've been playing since Vanilla. I liked the game in Vanilla just as much as I do now, but I would not want to go back to the vanilla days, not even for the sake of "nostalgia." I would hate to see Buzzkill run a game. It would never get updated or progress.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •