Page 2 of 19 FirstFirst
1
2
3
4
12
... LastLast
  1. #21
    I don't think they are. With easier access to the internet means better access to information... the average person is better informed than before, thus make relatively researched decisions about particular moral issues. A great example is same sex marriage - suggest this 20 years ago and it would have been rejected straight away. Now it's becoming acceptable. I can say the same thing with many other moral issues too, like the treatment of the animals we eat, bullying, etc.

  2. #22
    Moral decay of a nation can be directly linked to decline of that nation

  3. #23
    Legendary! Dezerte's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    6,755
    No, they are mostly moving in the right direction. We now have defined a set of human rights, but there have absolutely been some "black marks", such as homosexuality only now becoming legal & accepted again.

    Traditional values should not be valued because they are traditional, they should stand on their own merit.
    To declare that a personal, inner experience gives certainty about the workings of the universe is to assign far too much value to one’s subjective sense of conviction.
    I’m not that arrogant.

    The brain, marvelous instrument though it is, isn’t infallible. It can misfire, seize or hallucinate, and it can do so in a way that’s utterly indistinguishable from reality to the person experiencing it.

  4. #24
    Scarab Lord Garnier Fructis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Location:
    Posts
    4,327
    Quote Originally Posted by Vyxn View Post
    Moral decay of a nation can be directly linked to decline of that nation
    You have any examples?
    Wir müssen wissen. Wir werden wissen.
    Quote Originally Posted by auBerg View Post
    You are a certified crackpot that is subservient to the manipulators of science who are dreaming to control knowledge.

  5. #25
    The Insane Cattaclysmic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Århus
    Posts
    17,513
    Quote Originally Posted by mvallas View Post
    Given your last thread you created about "simple life vs Complicated life" - it sounds like you're just having a down-turn in your opinion. I'm going to respond to the last thread - and I hope it gives you a bit of light.

    Long and short - don't believe the movie "God Bless America" (judging by how you speak, it sounds like it). The main protagonist could've solved every one of his problems by doing one thing - shutting his TV off.

    As Groucho Marx once observed: "I found TV very educational. When somebody turns one on, I go into the other room and read a book".
    He made them exactly 15 minutes apart... They should put a cap on it.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-24 at 11:11 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Istaril View Post
    Why do I suspect that you mean "Conservative Christian Values" when you say "Traditional Values".
    Because America?

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-24 at 11:13 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Vyxn View Post
    Moral decay of a nation can be directly linked to decline of that nation
    Whose morals?

  6. #26
    The Lightbringer KingHorse's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Somewhere in KY, USA
    Posts
    3,742
    The values of society change over time. Better or worse is a matter of perspective.

    As a general rule, "more free" would be good in my book. There is, obviously, a limit to that, and that limit is different for everyone.
    I don't argue to be right, I argue to be proven wrong. Because I'm aware that the collective intelligence of the community likely has more to offer to me by enlightening me, than I do to an individual by "winning" an argument with them.
    Quote Originally Posted by belfpala View Post
    I don't always wear tennis shoes, but when I do, I speak Russian. In French.

  7. #27
    Legendary! Dezerte's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    6,755
    While morality is subjective, I think we all can agree on what's good or bad. As long as you're not hurting anyone, you're moral.

    If I punch you, I'm hurting you; therefore that's immoral.

    But it isn't always that black and white, for example; a doctor has to inflict pain & injury on you, in order to save you from a greater injury. In this case, the means justifies the ends.
    To declare that a personal, inner experience gives certainty about the workings of the universe is to assign far too much value to one’s subjective sense of conviction.
    I’m not that arrogant.

    The brain, marvelous instrument though it is, isn’t infallible. It can misfire, seize or hallucinate, and it can do so in a way that’s utterly indistinguishable from reality to the person experiencing it.

  8. #28
    Society tends to remember only the good and (sometimes) extremely bad parts of ages past. Society is no worse than during any period of time, if you were there to witness it firsthand.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Deadvolcanoes View Post
    This is incredibly rare in today's society, and it also existed in previous generations. So it wouldn't be a change, it would be a continuation.
    I'm not saying it's new, I'm saying it's increasing. As for incredibly rare, do you ever pay attention to political discussions? I don't remember what your views are but I recognize your avatar from some on this very forum. If you're not seeing this attitude in those conversations then you're going out of your way to miss it.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-24 at 10:24 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Dezerte View Post
    While morality is subjective, I think we all can agree on what's good or bad.
    What a flagrant self-contradiction...

  10. #30
    The Lightbringer Sky High's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    SO-CALI
    Posts
    3,754
    they don't degrade. they change. over a century ago it was "moral" to have slaves. but of course that isn't the case anymore. times change, that is the only constant.

  11. #31
    The Lightbringer Istaril's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Scotland. Freedom and So on.
    Posts
    3,235
    America grew great because of those values
    *Eyeroll*

    Yepp. Here we go. I'm not going to risk answering this one, I've received too many infractions recently over Religious threads because I tend to get a bit too blunt, so I'll let someone else handle this.

    I will cover some brief points though...

    You would still have to base all those societies on a set of rules, and those rules would look nearly exactly the same as the rules in our religious books that most societies are already based on.
    Are our societies based on the morals of Religions, or are the Religions based on societies morals?

    The latter I think, given how recently some of these Religions came into being. Still, there are several traits of Religion that are morally repugnant by today's standards. People are very quick to quote Leviticus to support their homophobia, but they tend not to be so keen on the passage about selling their daughter's into slavery.

  12. #32
    The more moral a society gets, the more "spotlight" is focused at immoral events. This gives you the illusion that it's getting worse, while infact it's getting better.

    Also, the human memory is incredibly flawed. So going by personal experience instead of statistics, is very ineffective.

  13. #33
    Legendary! Dezerte's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    6,755
    Quote Originally Posted by Magpai View Post
    What a flagrant self-contradiction...
    Morality is subjective in the sense that everyone has their own idea of what is right or wrong, however, I think all or most of us can agree on what's hurting someone or not. But there's scientific way of finding out these answers using that method, and this is what should be used and ultimately give us an objective morality.

    I worded myself poorly in my previous post.
    To declare that a personal, inner experience gives certainty about the workings of the universe is to assign far too much value to one’s subjective sense of conviction.
    I’m not that arrogant.

    The brain, marvelous instrument though it is, isn’t infallible. It can misfire, seize or hallucinate, and it can do so in a way that’s utterly indistinguishable from reality to the person experiencing it.

  14. #34
    Moral standards in general are social construct of the society, they can not degrade. They can evolve though and whetever you like the direction of that evolution is entirely another thing.
    Modern gaming apologist: I once tasted diarrhea so shit is fine.

    "I envy Obama, because he can spy on his own people and get away with it." - Putin

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by sandmoth12 View Post
    Personally I think they are. To me it seems like moral standards were much higher in the past. Our ideas grow evermore provocative and degrading. Is it really a good thing to cast away traditional values?

    And now I can finally understand why old people complain about the youths of today...
    Traditional values.

    Women treated as property.
    Slavery.
    Scientific ignorance.
    Superstition.

    ... just to name a few "traditional values"
    It's LeviOsa, not LeviosAR!

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Garnier Fructis View Post
    You have any examples?


    http://www.leaderu.com/common/nationsdie.html

  17. #37
    Morality cannot degrade, it doesn't have a specific value attached. Our morality cannot become better or worse, it can only change. Societal development is quite similar to evolution on a compact timescale, the only difference is that instead of physical changes they are emotional, the changes are incapable of being wrong or right without greater context beyond our means. The only way it could be considered to degrade was if you held a previous moral stand point of society as the apex, which is naive.
    One cannot simply quit wow his way into Mordor.

  18. #38
    Herald of the Titans Theodon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    England
    Posts
    2,761
    Moral standards are being replaced by financial backing. If you have the money, and thus the power, morality often changes to suit the person with the money/power. The laws that are constantly getting through, and those that are being enforced, are a testament to the ever-changing shift in morality in many countries.

  19. #39
    Titan Didactic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Blorch - Home of the Slaughtering Rat People
    Posts
    11,906
    Morality is relative, yadda yadda. Every generation thinks is successor is 'immoral'.
    Right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.
    - Thucydides

    There is a modern myth that people have always tended towards democracy, constitutions, electoral rights; but in truth, love of freedom has never been the predominant note of popular politics. At most times, popular demand has been for a strong government.
    - Eugen Weber

  20. #40
    Over 9000! Frozenbeef's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Uk - England
    Posts
    9,063
    I'm more interested in what the next generation will think our bad morals are :P

    Remember slavery, sexism etc were considered relativly normal back in the dark ages

    Maybe in the future they will think we are monsters because we keep pets or because we wear clothes :P

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •