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  1. #1
    Mechagnome Televators's Avatar
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    Wish Blizz would scrap level 90 mage talents :\

    I am afraid to post anything like this as people will often take is as a "Look at me! I'm mad and I want everyone to know!" type of post and it's really nothing like that, but I am simply wondering if anyone else feels the same.

    I remember when they revamped talents completely, devs said something along the lines of "We're removing "straight dps" abilities because they aren't choices. They're mandatory and boring."

    So how did we get to the place we are with level 90 mage talents? They're all straight dps buffs that need constant babysitting. Mage has been my main since '06 and this is the first time I've lost interest completely. I would love a fun, meaningful ability at 90 and not something that simply buffs damage. I could understand if it were a utility spell that also increased damage by a minimal amount (say 5%), but as it is, these spells aren't choices and there's nothing interesting about them. They must be cast on cooldown, ad nauseum. Boring. :\

  2. #2
    Legendary! Granyala's Avatar
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    I agree. Lv 90 talents ruined my mage alt for me.

    Stupid buff maintaining.

    5.2's changes are bandaids.

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  3. #3
    idd id preferd if the made 3 talents like the rogues have.
    the actually change your rotation allitle.

    for mages atm it's cast a evo every minute or stand in a rune.
    and for pvp you can take a shield that gives 30%?:S dmg increase. if the attack you and it lasts 15seconds....

    the bomb talents would have been better level 90 talents...
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  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Televators View Post
    I am afraid to post anything like this as people will often take is as a "Look at me! I'm mad and I want everyone to know!" type of post and it's really nothing like that, but I am simply wondering if anyone else feels the same.

    I remember when they revamped talents completely, devs said something along the lines of "We're removing "straight dps" abilities because they aren't choices. They're mandatory and boring."

    So how did we get to the place we are with level 90 mage talents? They're all straight dps buffs that need constant babysitting. Mage has been my main since '06 and this is the first time I've lost interest completely. I would love a fun, meaningful ability at 90 and not something that simply buffs damage. I could understand if it were a utility spell that also increased damage by a minimal amount (say 5%), but as it is, these spells aren't choices and there's nothing interesting about them. They must be cast on cooldown, ad nauseum. Boring. :\
    I mained a mage thru cataclysm and really lost interest in playing it after hitting 90 and playing for a while. rune of power just makes u stand still witch isnt really fun, ye its not a long cast but annoying to recast on every single position u take not to mention losing the buff on movement. invocation recast timing is just not fun for me, these talents are the reason i rerolled to a different class in mop and dont play my mage anymore glad atleast everything (mounts etc) i got on my time on the mage are account wide now

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by wrathblade View Post
    idd id preferd if the made 3 talents like the rogues have.
    the actually change your rotation allitle.
    .
    Did you.. What the.. I don't even know how to answer to this. Other then anticipation, rogue 90 are a joke. Don't get me wrong, mages are definately worst but not by much. Shuriken toss would've been great as a weapon throw combo not as a 90 talent. Lastly that piece of shit versatility, oh the rage.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ruargh
    I'm baffled that something this simple can be so hard for some people... I guess we can't blame blizzard for dumbing down the game any longer, because apparently it very much needed :

  6. #6
    Mechagnome Serendia's Avatar
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    I think I know what you feel. Sometimes I'm thinking the same... but then again in your words a "meaningful ability at 90". So what is meaningful for a mage? It's a damagedealer so meaningful to them is: damage. But I think the way the talents work sometimes just make me /sigh.

  7. #7
    i feel you but if you are concerned about your rotation and not having fun, pick up IW

    if you want to maximize damage out put (dps) then try and adept the new(boring apparently) rop or invocation the choices are yours there

  8. #8
    Legendary! Polarthief's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alt-ithist View Post
    Did you.. What the.. I don't even know how to answer to this. Other then anticipation, rogue 90 are a joke. Don't get me wrong, mages are definately worst but not by much.
    I'm guessing you don't do progression raids on your Mage.

    Mage is by FAR the worst L90 talent tier. I'd gladly trade it for useless abilities assuming our overall DPS is buffed to compensate.

    At this point, I'd gladly take those old Polymorph modifiers.

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  9. #9
    If you look through some of my older posts, I once hypothesized that Blizz is using mages as an experiment.
    I hypothesized that they want mages to be the "stand and nuke" (static) casters of WoW, as opposed to the 'mobile ranged class' which is what most other ranged classes have become now.

    Looking over GCs recent comments on the Blazing speed change (flameglow sucks btw - mainly because its boring as hell and demands spec swapping mid raids), we now have proof that this is indeed the design intent for mages. Mages are meant to be the 'static casters' of WoW. In essence, they are an experiment as to whether static casters can even work in modern MMO design (as a point to note, some other MMO's e.g. GW2, have totally done away with static casting models).

    The level 90 talents exist for this purpose. Sure, their implementation sucks and sure they are hard to balance, but I'm quite certain now that they aren't going anywhere. They exist to reinforce this design philosophy for mages.

  10. #10
    What is the point of having a static caster when the current encounter design goes against this. Are they deliberately trying to alienate their entire mage community?

  11. #11
    Legendary! Polarthief's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zomgDPS View Post
    If you look through some of my older posts, I once hypothesized that Blizz is using mages as an experiment.
    I hypothesized that they want mages to be the "stand and nuke" (static) casters of WoW, as opposed to the 'mobile ranged class' which is what most other ranged classes have become now.

    Looking over GCs recent comments on the Blazing speed change (flameglow sucks btw - mainly because its boring as hell and demands spec swapping mid raids), we now have proof that this is indeed the design intent for mages. Mages are meant to be the 'static casters' of WoW. In essence, they are an experiment as to whether static casters can even work in modern MMO design (as a point to note, some other MMO's e.g. GW2, have totally done away with static casting models).

    The level 90 talents exist for this purpose. Sure, their implementation sucks and sure they are hard to balance, but I'm quite certain now that they aren't going anywhere. They exist to reinforce this design philosophy for mages.
    Too bad encounters aren't designed that way, so we're now officially playing a class design that's 6 or so years outdated. Lovely.

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  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Skidd View Post
    What is the point of having a static caster when the current encounter design goes against this. Are they deliberately trying to alienate their entire mage community?
    From what I can understand (Logix was the one who got me to see the point in the first place), is that this idea of 'static caster' is supposed to be part of the "challenge" of mages, specifically given modern raid design.

    I think what Blizz sees, is that the mages of the past were a rather 'simple' class as it is. Unlike other classes, the 'rotations' for all three specs are quite basic ('spam nuke X till proc Y, use proc, repeat'), and so something was needed to introduce 'challenge' to the class.

    It seems Blizz sees "managing mobility" as that challenge. Where the 'skill' of a mage would come not from how well he executed a rotation to the letter, but instead, from his knowledge of a fight and through extension, his ability to be at the right place at the right time to execute aforementioned simple rotation for maximum effect (hence, emphasizing the 'cannon' part of the glass cannon, i.e. something that needs to be 'set up in position' before unleashing).


    To be fair, I actually agree with the sentiment in theory (and yes, as we all know, its the execution which fails). The sentiment in this case being "something is needed to make mages a non-one dimensional class". Many can argue that this 'managed mobility' is in fact not really a challenge but just a chore. It certainly seems that way to me.
    Though I guess we just have to keep all this in mind when looking at mages now.

    I do think there can be a better synergy with this model and current encounter design. Or at least, I think the entire model needs to be iterated on more.


    I think the real difficulty is in balancing it all.

    e.g How do you make something like RoP work without making it mandatory? How do you balance the numbers so that using RoP too little completey nerfs the mage's DPS, while still making it a worthwhile bonus so that when you do use it its worth something. Remember the old math I did here? RoP is barely worth casting in the grander scheme of things as it is (especially for non-Arcane specs that have nothing to do with the regen).

    I think this is partly where the problem for Blizz lies.


    Now sure, many could say "fuk RoP and fuck it - just delete and find something else". Sure.. that is most certainly an option, but I don't think Blizz is ready to give up on it just yet. They still see value in the design.

  13. #13
    Who likes the level 90 talents? Really if you're out there speak up I've noticed a trend that every mage is indifferent or dislikes them. I'm seriously starting to wonder just how unpopular these talents are because while I know that I hate them its really starting to seem like everyone else does too. Perhaps we could get a poll somewhere.

  14. #14
    lols iam prolly the only one that like invocation.Atleast now i never have to drink that shity water ever again.

  15. #15
    Mechagnome jtmzac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Turkey One View Post
    Who likes the level 90 talents? Really if you're out there speak up I've noticed a trend that every mage is indifferent or dislikes them. I'm seriously starting to wonder just how unpopular these talents are because while I know that I hate them its really starting to seem like everyone else does too. Perhaps we could get a poll somewhere.
    I like the current invocation and have said so many times. I can't remember who but someone around here likes all of them.

    At least on these forums most people hate the level 90 talents. A poll wouldn't do any good.
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  16. #16
    Stood in the Fire Static Transit's Avatar
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    I really agree with OP. It's really a pain in the ass having to use those constricting abilities on cooldown, and just serves to make mage rotation a LOT more annoying.

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  17. #17
    I understand what you are saying and I cant comment on if this a perceived intent or actual intent on blizzard behalf but the problem with this design zomgDPS is that they make the encounters abilities random, you get pools of "goo" cast on you and you have to move. You can not predict this. By extension every other player predicts or more likely knows what's coming next and what to do to avoid this which is not specific to the mage class, that's just being a good raider in general. Why should we be punished by moving while all the other classes in the game can do so freely at no cost.

    And its not like we specifically have the tools to help use get to a safe spot quickly so we can plonk ourself down for some more DPS. Our movement toolkit will need to be a lot more comprehensive than it is now for this to even become viable despite once again this goes against the whole concept of being a DPS.

  18. #18
    I just use IW and forget about it.

  19. #19
    I won't dispute the state of mage talents, but you have the interpretation wrong. There are plenty of straight dps talents, in one form or another. What they eliminated was the system that offered the "choice" of utility vs. dps... which was pretty much never a choice in PvE.

    So for hunters, for instance, one tier offers lynx rush, murder of crows, or blink strike. All are a dps increase, and you pretty much cast them on cooldown (slight variations when you hit readiness, but still). They're all stylistically different, and have different cooldowns and different tricks to maximize their value, but they're all straight dps boosts you want to hit as often as practically possible.

    Edit: Also, the sorts of boring dps talents they specifically wanted to get rid of were things like "Increases the damage of Fireball by 3/6/10%", not talents that increased dps by adding new abilities to the rotation.

  20. #20
    Stood in the Fire Static Transit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by quikbunny View Post
    I just use IW and forget about it.
    This, pretty much. I like Incanter's Ward because it's a nice passive bonus and gives you a nice little burst CD in some special cases (like last phase Elegon).

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