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  1. #201
    Quote Originally Posted by Eats Compost View Post
    The Night Elves attacked because they picked up on the Orcs' demonic taint. You can't really blame them for assuming that they were Legion-affiliated. Their past experience would have told them that demons were non-negotiable.
    Nor can you blame the Orcs for responding in self defence against a force that WOULD kill them.

  2. #202
    Quote Originally Posted by Thrive View Post
    At the end Varian flat out attacked Thrall and Saurfang, who were both there. The Horde and the Alliance had an invasion force outside the gates. The alliance one was placed by the sewers and the Horde by the front gate.
    Varian went at Thrall, ya, they snuck in, to get vengeance for Fordragon. This was the second time members of the horde (even those Putress dropped allegience with the attack) had backstabbed Alliance forces in what was supposed to be a joint effort against the Lich king. why do you ignore that?

    And to your previous statement regarding Ashenvale, the orcs only started to do so after the situation when Nelfs attacked orcs (And its also worth noting that for most the time it was purely the Warsong Clan who lost their shit after Grom's death).
    Are you really bringing up the first contact? I mean REALLY? After humans, night elves and orcs came together, night elves gave their immortality to save the humans AND orcs, the orcs repay the gesture by returning to destroy the Night Elf homeland. Worst attempt at justification that exists

    Before they were hauling it off to Orgrimmar for construction of the city. And the second part of your point is just plain stupid, as is that metaphor.
    If you knew jackshit about Night Elf lore you'd know that its very much fitting. The Ancient trees in Ashenvale are revered by the Night Elves, it's their land, their trees, their spiritual connection.

    The orcs had no Idea the Night elves were there to begin with, and had the Nelfs came up in any attempt of diplomacy the orcs would've listened.
    Once again, first contact means dick, especially since both humans AND orcs were at the receiving end of night elf aggression in defense of their homes. Diplomacy was there from Hyjal onward. Treaty after treaty, trade deals, the works. Orcs abused it over and over again.

  3. #203
    Quote Originally Posted by Thrive View Post
    Nor can you blame the Orcs for responding in self defence against a force that WOULD kill them.
    Can't blame them for fighting back, but drinking demon blood against the advice of the resident Shamen probably wasn't advisable, given that they probably ended up killing more Orcs than they saved. They kind of ended up proving the Night Elves right.

  4. #204
    The Unstoppable Force Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrive View Post
    Nor can you blame the Orcs for responding in self defence against a force that WOULD kill them.

    No duh. I'd blame both up until Grom re drank the blood then Grom totally responsible. My issue is...why didn't the Tauren say something ><
    Blizzard do not destroy Jaina Proudmoore's character. Make her who she once was, not full of rage and vengeance.,If you are curious about me or about my writing aspirations, feel free to pst me. Paladin-Sorcerer at your service! http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...htsongg/simple https://twitter.com/Aeluron1989

  5. #205
    Quote Originally Posted by Thrive View Post
    Nor can you blame the Orcs for responding in self defence against a force that WOULD kill them.
    self-defense? what the hell does this have to do with Garrosh invading Ashenvale? Please come into the WoW timeline and stop pissing around in WC3's irrelevant timeline.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-25 at 07:01 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Eats Compost View Post
    Can't blame them for fighting back, but drinking demon blood against the advice of the resident Shamen probably wasn't advisable, given that they probably ended up killing more Orcs than they saved. They kind of ended up proving the Night Elves right.
    Horde always ends up proving the suspicions of the Alliance (or Night Elves outside the ALliance at the time) right.

  6. #206
    I always love to come into threads like these and see the OP has been banned.

  7. #207
    The Unstoppable Force Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by reohh View Post
    I always love to come into threads like these and see the OP has been banned.

    It's Trassk. He got banned >.>
    Blizzard do not destroy Jaina Proudmoore's character. Make her who she once was, not full of rage and vengeance.,If you are curious about me or about my writing aspirations, feel free to pst me. Paladin-Sorcerer at your service! http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...htsongg/simple https://twitter.com/Aeluron1989

  8. #208
    Quote Originally Posted by Constellation View Post
    Varian went at Thrall, ya, they snuck in, to get vengeance for Fordragon. This was the second time members of the horde (even those Putress dropped allegience with the attack) had backstabbed Alliance forces in what was supposed to be a joint effort against the Lich king. why do you ignore that?

    Are you really bringing up the first contact? I mean REALLY? After humans, night elves and orcs came together, night elves gave their immortality to save the humans AND orcs, the orcs repay the gesture by returning to destroy the Night Elf homeland. Worst attempt at justification that exists

    If you knew jackshit about Night Elf lore you'd know that its very much fitting. The Ancient trees in Ashenvale are revered by the Night Elves, it's their land, their trees, their spiritual connection.

    Once again, first contact means dick, especially since both humans AND orcs were at the receiving end of night elf aggression in defense of their homes. Diplomacy was there from Hyjal onward. Treaty after treaty, trade deals, the works. Orcs abused it over and over again.
    Because horde soldiers died alongside the alliance soldiers

    And to the next three points, no I do not judge the Night Elves on first contact, however stupid they may have been, but it does give justification to the Orcs in their war against them. If one faction attacks you, you damn well attack back, that's how things are, and the Orcs can't be blamed for the Night Elves drawing first blood.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-25 at 07:05 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Constellation View Post
    self-defense? what the hell does this have to do with Garrosh invading Ashenvale? Please come into the WoW timeline and stop pissing around in WC3's irrelevant timeline.[COLOR="red"]
    My point is that these invasions aren't recent. They are the grudges of the past. They aren't here because Garrosh just decided he wanted Ashenvale, they are here because no faction wants to let go of those grudges or make any attempt at making up.
    And the blood was drunk after the Orcs had come to the conclusion that it was them drinking that blood or dying against a demi-god. I'd say they are fairly justified in that, but naive nonetheless.
    Last edited by Thrive; 2013-02-25 at 07:07 AM.

  9. #209
    Quote Originally Posted by Thrive View Post
    Because horde soldiers died alongside the alliance soldiers
    And everyone suffered casualties fighting alongside each other. So again, irrelevant.

    And to the next three points, no I do not judge the Night Elves on first contact, however stupid they may have been, but it does give justification to the Orcs in their war against them.
    That conflict ended when all three came together to defend Hyjal. The Orcs instigated a fresh conflict in direct violation of a peace treaty.

    If one faction attacks you, you damn well attack back, that's how things are, and the Orcs can't be blamed for the Night Elves drawing first blood.
    Orcs can be blamed every bit for the events in WoW.


    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron Lightsong View Post
    It's Trassk. He got banned >.>
    He should've dialed it down a notch.

  10. #210
    Quote Originally Posted by reohh View Post
    I always love to come into threads like these and see the OP has been banned.
    It was nothing but a troll thread anyways meant to get a rise out of pro-Alliance guys.

    I do think it's a non issue... Varian's actions in Wrath has since mellowed in IC.

  11. #211
    Quote Originally Posted by Thrive View Post
    My point is that these invasions aren't recent. They are the grudges of the past. They aren't here because Garrosh just decided he wanted Ashenvale, they are here because no faction wants to let go of those grudges or make any attempt at making up.
    And the blood was drunk after the Orcs had come to the conclusion that it was them drinking that blood or dying against a demi-god. I'd say they are fairly justified in that, but naive nonetheless.
    Why is a retreat never considered an option in Warcraft? When you stumble into someone else's land and they react badly to it, why is the default reaction "kill them all" rather than "well, we oughta get out of here"?

  12. #212
    Oh my god, did Trassk FINALLY get banned? Thank the friggin' Dark Lady for that.
    "Lordaeron belongs to the Forsaken. Always and forever!"

    Perfection is so horribly dull, don't you think?

  13. #213
    Quote Originally Posted by Constellation View Post
    Orcs can be blamed every bit for the events in WoW.
    That is quite alot coming from a Nelf fanboy. Night elves were responsible for destroying the empires of the original holder's of Azeroth, luring the Burning Legion to Azeroth, misusing ever single bit of power that was given to them, trusting in a leader that ended up re-summoning Rags to Hyjal. Arguably, every bad thing in Azeroth was thanks to Night Elf intrusion and use of fel energy. Well elves in general I suppose, the timeline gets iffy if you try to put the blame on High Elves or Night elves specifically..

  14. #214
    Immortal KrazyK923's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrive View Post
    That is quite alot coming from a Nelf fanboy. Night elves were responsible for destroying the empires of the original holder's of Azeroth, luring the Burning Legion to Azeroth, misusing ever single bit of power that was given to them, trusting in a leader that ended up re-summoning Rags to Hyjal. Arguably, every bad thing in Azeroth was thanks to Night Elf intrusion and use of fel energy. Well elves in general I suppose, the timeline gets iffy if you try to put the blame on High Elves or Night elves specifically..
    Are we really going to try and play this game? You should probably just stop.

    By the way, Varian did not to to the Undercity to conquer it. He went there to kill Putress, who was responsible for Bolvar's death. Even though Varian would have been justified in blaming Thrall for everything that happened, he instead actually goes after the real target. Yes, he attacks Thrall, but it's because Thrall's incompetence allowed those like Putress and Varimathras to do what they did in the Horde unchecked.

  15. #215
    Quote Originally Posted by vindicatorx View Post
    You should watch the videos since the destruction of Theramore cause the only thing holding Jaina from kicking the shit out of the horde is Varian.
    Actually I believe it's Kalecgos that talked some sense into her and stopped her. Reminding her that what she was about to do is no different from what Arthas did at Stratholme, no different from what Garrosh did with Theramore.

    Both Thrall and Varian tried to talk her out of it, however she ignored them.

  16. #216
    Quote Originally Posted by Thrive View Post
    That is quite alot coming from a Nelf fanboy. Night elves were responsible for destroying the empires of the original holder's of Azeroth, luring the Burning Legion to Azeroth, misusing ever single bit of power that was given to them, trusting in a leader that ended up re-summoning Rags to Hyjal. Arguably, every bad thing in Azeroth was thanks to Night Elf intrusion and use of fel energy. Well elves in general I suppose, the timeline gets iffy if you try to put the blame on High Elves or Night elves specifically..
    Not really. I don't have the interest in breaking down everything here but, you clearly don't know shit about the story.

  17. #217
    Quote Originally Posted by KrazyK923 View Post
    Are we really going to try and play this game? You should probably just stop.
    I agree, we are totally off-topic at this point (and for that I apologize), I was just pointing out how blaming everything on the Orcs is silly, because we can always go back further and blame something or someone else.

  18. #218
    Quote Originally Posted by Thrive View Post
    My point is that these invasions aren't recent. They are the grudges of the past. They aren't here because Garrosh just decided he wanted Ashenvale, they are here because no faction wants to let go of those grudges or make any attempt at making up.
    ROFL seriously? you just typed that. hahaha that was cute.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrive View Post
    I agree, we are totally off-topic at this point, I was just pointing out how blaming everything on the Orcs is silly, because we can always go back further and blame something or someone else.
    I am talking about the scope of the Night Elf conflict...

    Sorry you missed that. But then you said Garrosh didn't invade Ashenvale cause he wanted it LOL. right...

  19. #219
    Immortal KrazyK923's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SodiumChloride View Post
    Actually I believe it's Kalecgos that talked some sense into her and stopped her. Reminding her that what she was about to do is no different from what Arthas did at Stratholme, no different from what Garrosh did with Theramore.

    Both Thrall and Varian tried to talk her out of it, however she ignored them.
    Kalecgos (and to a lesser extent Thrall) talked her down from using the Focusing Iris and her army of Water Elementals from flattening Orgrimmar, but Varian has been keeping Jaina in check post-Dalaran. She finally circumvents his request in 5.2. From Dalaran until 5.2, she's been wanting to attack the Horde with the Kirin Tor, but Varian was telling her to wait. For as crazy as she is becoming, she's not batshit insane yet.

    I agree, we are totally off-topic at this point (and for that I apologize), I was just pointing out how blaming everything on the Orcs is silly, because we can always go back further and blame something or someone else.
    You can blame the start of a War on somebody, but you can't pull off "X is the cause of all the evils of the world" without looking like a biased tool.

    Honestly the War started BECAUSE of Twilight's Hammer, Garrosh expanded it greatly, but the Alliance isn't innocent either. Varian just isn't the Warmonger Garrosh is. There's a reason a lot of Alliance players disliked the story of Cataclysm, its because the Horde were the aggressors in basically every zone except the Southern Barrens and Swamp of Sorrows.

  20. #220
    Quote Originally Posted by Constellation View Post
    ROFL seriously? you just typed that. hahaha that was cute.

    I am talking about the scope of the Night Elf conflict...

    Sorry you missed that. But then you said Garrosh didn't invade Ashenvale cause he wanted it LOL. right...
    Your seriously telling me that the Nightelves had NO blame, if not most, in the situation in Ashenvale? Think what you will, but when one faction flat out attacks another, fully intending to completely wipe them out, then I think they hold a little if not a lot of the blame.

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