Page 1 of 7
1
2
3
... LastLast
  1. #1

    Rogue's not popular because they can't Stunlock/insta kill people.

    According to Ghostcrawler anyway...

    Quote Originally Posted by Greg Street Twitter
    My pet theory is rogue pop started to drop as soon as gank -> guaranteed kill became less likely.
    Does this mean that other classes are popular because they can guarantee kill people? Is he saying this was peoples ONLY atraction to Rogues and the point of the class? Rogue's always used to have an advantage from stealth but the actual windows in PVP history where "gank -> guaranteed kill" have been incredibly small, and at those times we tended to get murdered if we were caught out of stealth.

    Maybe the sheer damage.. but the serious danger of being seen first compensating it really were some of the important parts of being a Rogue. Should we feel like we're stalking our prey rather than hiding from them until a good moment.

  2. #2
    The Patient zanexlol's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    340
    Unless he actually plays a rogue, which he most probably does not, his theories doesn't hold that much weight.
    Yes, we are an ape with a symbiotic relationship to a mushroom.

  3. #3
    Originally Posted by Greg Street Twitter
    My pet theory is rogue pop started to drop as soon as i was hired
    Fixed
    /10chars

  4. #4
    There's some truth to what he says. Rogues aren't as popular because their burst isn't as good as it used to be, and other things have better burst. It's a burst metagame so obviously people will gravitate away from things that aren't great at it.

  5. #5
    I do play a Rogue and to some degree he's right. I'm not that much of a PvPer but eventually I liked to wander out in the open world and gank some people. Now, when I see a Warrior, I won't even engage him but instead walk around him with a large arch hoping he does not notice me.

  6. #6
    Know what the scary part about this is? It's not that he thinks that people want to play a class that can gank someone in a stunlock, because that IS really fun. It's that he views this a major reason making him less likely to actually try and find a solution because he thinks the problem is with the playerbase and not the class.

  7. #7
    I played rogue, but dropped him when he got sooo far behind in potential dmg as currently in mist.

  8. #8
    Actually it holds a lot of truth. Generally people play "assassin" like characters because they expect to sneak around and murder enemies with little confrontation. That's the whole glory of a sly silent killer. However, that style doesn't hold up in WoW where the game has to feel balanced from as many stand-points as possible, so they are a little more durable and less "instant kill" slayer. Hack that onto the fact that melee classes aren't generally very flashy, let alone one that often wears neutral or non flashy armor to "hide" with, and small weapons (daggers) and isn't a magical based class to add some shine, there just isn't much of an awe factor when playing an assassin without the assassination aspect.

  9. #9
    Problem comes when you have a few cool abilities like stuns, slows, evasion, vanish and a long etc but they give it to other classes and make it better than what you have

  10. #10
    The fact is that a great deal of people DID play rogues specifically because they were so good at ganking and griefing without the other player being able to retaliate. That is undeniable.

    As soon as the balance was tipped slightly less in their favour many people abandoned the class partly because they didn't know how to kill people the "proper way" and partly because they were no longer so grossly overpowered.

    It's basically just the "flavour of the month syndrome".
    Last edited by Netherspark; 2013-02-25 at 05:19 PM.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Disgustipated View Post
    Unless he actually plays a rogue, which he most probably does not, his theories doesn't hold that much weight.
    I have played and do play a rogue and I would agree with him, it was one of the attractions for many ppl I know. Very strong opener and kill target then rather vunerable etc.
    Science has made us gods even before we are worthy of being men: Jean Rostand. Yeah, Atheism is a religion like bald is a hair colour!.
    Classic: "The tank is the driver, the healer is the fuel, and the DPS are the kids sitting in the back seat screaming and asking if they're there yet."
    Irony >> "do they even realize that having a state religion IS THE REASON WE LEFT BRITTEN? god these people are idiots"

  12. #12
    The fact of the matter is this was one of the major attractions in playing a class which has so few. That they took away the insta kill through a stun-lock and the population plummeted says less about the player base and more about the design of the class.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Disgustipated View Post
    Unless he actually plays a rogue, which he most probably does not, his theories doesn't hold that much weight.
    It's a very legitimate concern in a list of them. The class innately attracts people who'd prefer to get the jump on, and control, their opponent... that being the whole design of the class and all.

    In earlier stages of the game, if you didn't have a stun-break PvP trinket you were pretty much a free kill. You can look up the endless rogue videos, especially those from the first four years of the game. People ganking in novelty outfits, or even naked, boosted class popularity immensely. Angwe stirred up a lot of shit, and glorified ganking in Menethil. Roguecraft did wonders to attract players.

    Those days are over now. Enter diminishing returns, higher health-pools and resilience, and the class doesn't have the throughput to burn down a target in between a CS > KS > Vanish > CS > KS like they used to. The class is immensely more complicated to play than it used to be, and there are definitely loads of players who jumped ship because of it.

    Not to say that's the only problem. Several quality of life issues make it hard to retain players, and there's much more micromanaging needed to maximize output than any other class.

    I doubt he solely attributes the population decline to it, but you can't deny a notable portion of the decline were from people who just wanted to gank, but can't pull it off anymore.

  14. #14
    This is what happens when a glass cannon becomes a glass knife

  15. #15
    The one thing Ghostcrawler and Blizzard cannot possibly know for sure: why people do or do not play a class. They may have circumstantial evidence, or inclinations, or even a poll that was kept fairly secret.

    But they don't know why I quit playing mine. Or why you quit playing yours. And until GC understands energy starvation sucks as a play style, he'll have to keep sticking to his pet theories instead.

  16. #16
    Pandaren Monk Adoxe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Battling the Iron Horde with Yrel at Karabor.
    Posts
    1,823
    As a rogue/paladin/warrior/warlock/hunter/monk, but mostly a rogue, I agree with him.
    Formerly known as NonameXADX

    Thanks to Noxychu for the wonderful avatar!

  17. #17
    my opinion on why people dont play rogues is that they are boring. any class would be boring that plays exactly the same as it did when wow was released. build combo points. babysit the SAME abilities you were using in vanilla.

  18. #18
    Bloodsail Admiral Libram's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Delta Quadrant
    Posts
    1,184
    I agree with Greg.
    I knew so many people in my guild that were bad rouges, but simply played the class because of the quick kills they could make with it by stalking easy classes.
    I make Trance, let me know what you think! http://youtu.be/b19r1rsqsI0


  19. #19
    If you look at vanilla->burning crusade era...

    Melee dps choices were warrior, rogue, badhancement, loltribution, feral druid.

    Now I never saw a feral dps druid in those days, and badhancement/loltribution were pretty weak.

    Needless to say your options for melee dps were pretty limited and there were tons of rogues.

    Now?

    Warrior, rogue, enhancement, retribution, feral cat, Deathknight, Windwalker monk.

    Of those, 5 have tank trees... 4 have healer trees... 2 have ranged trees.

    My guess is the singular role of the rogue is what killed people playing them, I know it was the case with me.
    The most successful tyranny is not the one that uses force to assure uniformity but the one that removes the awareness of other possibilities.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by rogueMatthias View Post
    According to Ghostcrawler anyway...



    Does this mean that other classes are popular because they can guarantee kill people? Is he saying this was peoples ONLY atraction to Rogues and the point of the class? Rogue's always used to have an advantage from stealth but the actual windows in PVP history where "gank -> guaranteed kill" have been incredibly small, and at those times we tended to get murdered if we were caught out of stealth.

    Maybe the sheer damage.. but the serious danger of being seen first compensating it really were some of the important parts of being a Rogue. Should we feel like we're stalking our prey rather than hiding from them until a good moment.
    I agree, everyone had a rogue in cata and it sucked took the fun out of pvp. If this holds true this means that rogues have players that are willing to reroll just to get kills. Most pvpers I know stick to a class through thick and thin.

    All they need to do is fix rogues so they dont become uncounterable, which they are right now:
    Fix retard vanish, shuriken toss maybe 10y range max, and make sure you can't cos and use offensive cooldowns together ( or deterrence stampede for that matter) Rogues will still be strong but now the Diamond cannons they are right now. Mages do way more burst but they are counterable.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •