1. #1
    Pit Lord Malgru's Avatar
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    A major flaw in SV PvP

    Black Arrow is probably the most important ability for SV hunters in PvP. It gives us the potential for Lock n Load procs, which with CDs popped can lead to some semi-okay burst. Not even close to amazing burst, but you can still tell the damage increase as expected. Now, Black Arrow shares a CD with Explosive Trap. This completely ruins SV when compared to MM or BM, due to the fact that the Explosive Trap glyph adds so much utility to hunters in general. Freezing Trap --> Explosive, CC a healer AND knock them farther away. Why do they refuse to see this ridiculous problem? It completely ruins SV - you pick between a knockback and a load of damage (combine the DoT effect AND the LnL procs).

    Not only that, but BA can be dispelled... kill command and chimera shot can't.

  2. #2
    It would be sick if dispelling black arrow automatically procs lock n load

  3. #3
    Brewmaster Arcanimus's Avatar
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    Its clear that SV isn't intended for low-mid level competitive PvP.

    Why else would they ignore pleas for dispel protection or dispel penalties, aside from sheer hatred of the class?

    Oops, sorry. My bitterness is leaking again.
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  4. #4
    Pit Lord Malgru's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arcanimus View Post
    Its clear that SV isn't intended for low-mid level competitive PvP.

    Why else would they ignore pleas for dispel protection or dispel penalties, aside from sheer hatred of the class?

    Oops, sorry. My bitterness is leaking again.
    are you calling yourself a better player when i'm higher rated?

    /confused

  5. #5
    Herald of the Titans SL1200's Avatar
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    Explosive trap also procs lock n load same way black arrow does. Why does the shared cooldown ruin survival hunters in pvp?

  6. #6
    There's a pretty obvious solution...when you glyph explosive trap the two spells no longer share a cooldown.

  7. #7
    The Lightbringer Speaknoevil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malgru View Post
    Black Arrow is probably the most important ability for SV hunters in PvP. It gives us the potential for Lock n Load procs, which with CDs popped can lead to some semi-okay burst. Not even close to amazing burst, but you can still tell the damage increase as expected. Now, Black Arrow shares a CD with Explosive Trap. This completely ruins SV when compared to MM or BM, due to the fact that the Explosive Trap glyph adds so much utility to hunters in general. Freezing Trap --> Explosive, CC a healer AND knock them farther away. Why do they refuse to see this ridiculous problem? It completely ruins SV - you pick between a knockback and a load of damage (combine the DoT effect AND the LnL procs).

    Not only that, but BA can be dispelled... kill command and chimera shot can't.
    Play with Vampiric Touch, and fire your Black Arrow when they dispel something.
    __

    Black Arrow should be a physical effect, OR it should not share a CD with Explosive Trap. Explosive shot should always be worth firing over arcane shot if it's available..... seems good.
    Last edited by Speaknoevil; 2013-02-26 at 02:45 AM.
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  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Spinachsandwich View Post
    Explosive trap also procs lock n load same way black arrow does. Why does the shared cooldown ruin survival hunters in pvp?
    It doesn't proc lock and load when you glyph explosive trap for the knockback... and for most bgs at least you really want to be doing that. It's great for keeping players off siege vehicles in strand of the ancients or knocking people off things in Eots and AB. Also for arenas such as Dalaran sewers or Blades edge you often want to be knocking people off the top level so the enemy players wont just jump down to avoid your stampede and bestial wrath pet if you tried to use it on the top level.

  9. #9
    Brewmaster Arcanimus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malgru View Post
    are you calling yourself a better player when i'm higher rated?

    /confused
    Read it again. At no point did I say anyone was bad. I'm agreeing with you.
    Quote Originally Posted by GennGreymane View Post
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  10. #10
    You seem to be acting like this is a breakthrough discovery... It's been known for a long time that Survival is terrible for PvP because it has no dispel protection. It would be nice if Blizzard added something, maybe along the lines of the Death Knight Glyph of Enduring Infection (since Black Arrow damage is extremely weak anyway) or give it another form of Dispel Protection like Affliction Locks and Shadow Priests have, possibly something like "When Black Arrow is dispelled it deals the remaining damage instantly and causes the Hunter to gain 5 charges of Lock 'n' Load.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Glurp View Post
    It would be nice if Blizzard added something, maybe along the lines of the Death Knight Glyph of Enduring Infection (since Black Arrow damage is extremely weak anyway)
    Here's an idea, how about making Frost and Freezing Trap trigger Lock and Load as well. Now you don't have to waste focus on a weak dot anymore and you have more control over your proc.

    ...oh, wait.
    Bovan.9481
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  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Bovan View Post
    Here's an idea, how about making Frost and Freezing Trap trigger Lock and Load as well. Now you don't have to waste focus on a weak dot anymore and you have more control over your proc.

    ...oh, wait.
    I'm not sure what you're getting at. Why should traps need to be fired in order to maintain maximum single target DPS?

  13. #13
    Brewmaster Arcanimus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glurp View Post
    I'm not sure what you're getting at. Why should traps need to be fired in order to maintain maximum single target DPS?
    What he means is make use of existing mechanics before crying for buffs because you forgot about them.
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  14. #14
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    LnL ICD is 10s, frost/freezing trap is on 20s shared CD. Are you saying people who want to be viable in SV PVP should just shut up and accept half the possible LnL procs they could have?

    I mean, sure, you could say that.

  15. #15
    Brewmaster Arcanimus's Avatar
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    When PvPing as Surv, I'd want the glyph of Explosive trap regardless of LnL procs, simply because it can assist the enemy team via CC breaking. If it had a mechanic to compensate loss of LnL Procs, I think it might end up being mandatory/OP.
    Quote Originally Posted by GennGreymane View Post
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  16. #16
    Mechagnome
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    That's because PvE takes priority in WoW... the reason Black Arrow shares a CD with Explosive Trap is that Blizzard doesn't want to force PvE SV players to use Explosive Trap as part of their single-target rotation. Why - I don't really know. And the disadvantage it brings for SV PvP is ignored as usual. At least for some time.

    Anyway, not that big of a deal when you can just switch to two other specs. Pure classes always had both the blessing and curse of being able to switch to a different spec whenever one particular spec doesn't make sense for a particular encounter - be it PvE or PvP. So if you play a pure DPS class and don't want to switch to a different spec that makes more sense, you'll have to live with a disadvantage. Always been that way.

  17. #17
    Explosive trap is meant to be an AoE ability.

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