The Pick Order vs Calling Roles

[Duilliath]

Personally I see calling as a means to express preference. Prefered positions usually have better results, so why contest if you can play multiple positions really well and some other guy can't. So when I enter a game I always say "Jungle prefered". And if some other guy wants jungle, I'll give it to him and just do something else. What irks me, are the guys that don't say a word and then just pick a position, then say that pick order matters most.

Either side of the coin, when abused, it's just another way of saying you're looking for a fight. (Which will result in a bad game)

This. Pick and call order are both daft if it means you wind up with a team that doesn't work. Additionally, rushing top or mid makes it more likely for you to get countered, which is silly as well.

I rather have a well-composed team that has people playing roles that work for them (which isn't necessarily the same as best role) than one that has people bending over backwards to fit in the stubborn folk trying to be 'right' by claiming 'pick order'.

[Gallahadd]

@Gallahadd

That's an instance where they had the right, but went about it poorly. Zed is played often top lane and in the jungle, though he's likely to be very valid in mid lane too. I usually let people know that I'm going with whatever I've chosen if I'm first pick. (I play a lot of jungle and support, and may wrongly have a sense of entitlement to something different than those.)

Yeah I guess... As I said to him, I'm not one of the "give me X lane or I feed!" people, if he's just SAID "Can I take top please?" hell even "No! ffs I take top noob" then I wouldn't have had a problem taking ADC (the roll he thought I "Should" take, because I picked last) but because of his attitude it put my back up and made me WANT to say "fuck you, I'm taking the lane I called"...

Just goes to show, if you're a dick people will be a dick right back. be nniicceeee!

[Deleted]

This. Pick and call order are both daft if it means you wind up with a team that doesn't work. Additionally, rushing top or mid makes it more likely for you to get countered, which is silly as well.

I rather have a well-composed team that has people playing roles that work for them (which isn't necessarily the same as best role) than one that has people bending over backwards to fit in the stubborn folk trying to be 'right' by claiming 'pick order'.

I agree that rushing top or mid is not smart, but almost no players recognize that, unless you're higher up in the ranks.

If there's a conflict where two people wants the same spot, and just that spot, then pick order comes first imo.

I try to play all roles so I can fill any spot, but I do prefer ad carry.

I really don't see a reason for people to play draft normals if they are gonna call spots and rage if they can't get them. That's what blind pick is for.

[Dundebuns]

If I am banning I will almost always take a jungler, unless someone specifically wants to jungle. I dont like it when people who are first or second picks call out mid or top, and will ask them what they want to play, and if they want to do a swap if they'll pick a support or jungler for me to take. So many games I've played have had the first two picks countered hard. There's no point losing the game in the champ selection screen

[Deleted]

There is basically no reason not to pick mid/top first below plat. Counterpicks are irrelevant if you don't know how to play the champ. Better just learn a few champs, pick them and then you can bait "counterpicks" and crush them in lane anyways. Even people in diamond firstpick mid/top all the time.

[Duilliath]

It's far easier with some ambiguous picks first. Where's that Kayle going to go? Or that Cho'gath? Even Kha'zix might be seen in different lanes. It will give you a chance to respond to what you see the opponent pick.

[Toxigen]

I try to respect the calls.

However, I also try to convince those 1st and 2nd pick folks that scream TOP / MID to pick a jungler / ADC / support to swap with me so they don't get countered.

However, they usually end up wanting to play Akali...even when looking at Lee Sin and Garen picks.

FML

[Deleted]

I either say "pref x / y" if I feel like playing a certain role (I play all roles), or if I feel like it and people seem nice I type out my preference/skill level, for example: Mid = AD -> top = jungle -> support.

Not that I will dodge if I have to support, or suck badly at it, it's just my worse and least preferred role so I'm bound to be worse at it than any of the other lanes. I've carried games as support Alistar (roam) and Zyra (dem roots + ult), but I've fed due to miscommunication as well.

[Axethor]

It's far easier with some ambiguous picks first. Where's that Kayle going to go? Or that Cho'gath? Even Kha'zix might be seen in different lanes. It will give you a chance to respond to what you see the opponent pick.

How many people in Bronze, Silver, Gold, hell even Platinum actually try to counter-pick in solo-queue. I've seen people counter-pick themselves because they wanted to play Annie and only Annie and there was nothing that could change their mind.

Also, while ambiguous early picks are awesome, even jungle or ADC can benefit from later picks. No one should ever pick Vayne early because of her early game. Trundle is a great last pick since he excels at fighting one tank teams, but multi-tank teams lower his effectiveness.

[Deleted]

I don't see any problem picking mid first. It's more likely the morons who wanted their precious Katarina (or whatever is it now, Lux I guess) but were last picks.

Well if you go with something there is not much enemies are doing with it. It's not like there is some 100% working counter or whatever, you can just give the other guy hard times, but usually it takes whole comp to completely defeat purpose of single character. Especially in lower brackets it's nearly unthinkable that they'll create a whole team just to shut you down.

[NotValidAnymore]

In lower brackets, it's usually more about being good with a champion, rather than just countering someone. It happens often that people pick something just because it's a counter, so you get things like Kassadin and Talon in mid who are useless.

Same with with "OP champs", when people pick Shen and fail, for example.

However, at higher levels, people are (usually) more competent, so counters play a larger role.

[Amontoya86]

*I am only in silver teir so I am speaking from my experience, I assume the higher you climb the ladder the more intelligent people pick and play*

There is a difference between an unspoken rule (pick order > call order) and strategy that I feel many LoL players cannot fathom.

1st pick: TOP!
4th pick: top please
*bans go out and 1st pick still auto locks his top champion which is Singed*

This drives me nuts, when the 1st pick decides he wants to play mid or top (champs that can be easily countered compared a duo bot or jungle) and makes it obvious hes that specific role to the opposing team (like Garen who only goes top, or Karthus who only goes mid). With that said, if you 1st pick a champ that can play multiple roles (Khazix, Lee, Malphite, Cho, Shen, etc), that's a bit better because they cant immediately counter pick you until they see the rest of the team comp.

For example, I recently played a game where i was LAST pick and wanted to top, but 1st pick did too, so instead of arguing I asked him who he wanted to top so we could switch champs so he wasnt insta countered. His response was "lol there is no such thing as counters noob" and auto locked Darius. He got destroyed by Jayce (which happened to be the 2nd pick, an easy counter).

In the end, 1st picking an obvious mid or top is like playing rock paper scissor and telling your opponent you're going to pick rock before the final turn.

Like I said before, this is my experience in silver tier, and I have had a few people that realized they got countered and do a lane switch which is awesome.........but most of the time I see ppl cant comprehend doing a lane switch so they dont.

[Thallidomaniac]

How many people in Bronze, Silver, Gold, hell even Platinum actually try to counter-pick in solo-queue. I've seen people counter-pick themselves because they wanted to play Annie and only Annie and there was nothing that could change their mind.

Also, while ambiguous early picks are awesome, even jungle or ADC can benefit from later picks. No one should ever pick Vayne early because of her early game. Trundle is a great last pick since he excels at fighting one tank teams, but multi-tank teams lower his effectiveness.

I think counter-picking happens more often in solo queue at those levels. However, they do that just by going to a counter-picking website such as ChampionSelect, only to have no idea why it's a counter-pick and how to use the champion either. So often do people try to counter-pick a Darius or Garen pick by picking Teemo, only to end up feeding as Teemo.

[Isrozzis]

Imo pick order > call order. I usually say something like "prefer top or mid, will fill though" if I don't have first pick.

If I have first pick, then I just take what I want. People moan and bitch about pick order and stuff, but the vast majority of the time the people who are complaining will just suck it up and play the role they don't want to.

That's not to say I don't look at calls, i.e. every role is called but one that I can play well. For the sake of the team I will go ahead and take the role that hasn't been called or ask the people if they will. But if three people all call top and I have first pick and I'm feeling like top, you better believe I'm going top.

[Rinoa]

Why can't we just pick the roles we want when we queue up, and get matched in such a way that the group has one person for each role? It'd make things so much easier.

[Axethor]

Why can't we just pick the roles we want when we queue up, and get matched in such a way that the group has one person for each role? It'd make things so much easier.

Because that would make the meta the rules, which Riot doesn't want. Also, How would you deal with champions that fill multiple roles and lanes? If you restrict that way, champions would also most likely be restricted and it would limit creativity.

[Rinoa]

It wouldn't have to be limited to top bruiser, AP mid, ADC and support bottom and jungler. Could also add options such as bruiser bottom and so on such as to not restrict creativity. Ah well. It's just frustrating as it is sometimes.

[StNimrod]

I don't argue with their picks, except for ADC, which quite often, sadly, SUCK. Why call something you can't even properly do?
I can't jungle for !@#$ so I say straight away, 'not jungle, pref adc or supp'

I do like people who call supp, I've had great experience with these guys lately. (Not because I play mainly ADC, but they're great overall)

[Duilliath]

Why can't we just pick the roles we want when we queue up, and get matched in such a way that the group has one person for each role? It'd make things so much easier.

In recent play, I've seen
* Heimerdinger jungle
* Fiddlesticks support
* LeBlanc Support
* AD mid + AD top
* Kayle top, mid, jungle
* Kennen AD
* Tryndamere AP

All of that will be lost if you set roles like this. Riot has stated several times over they want to avoid cementing the roles than they already have been.

[Deleted]

In recent play, I've seen
* Heimerdinger jungle
* Fiddlesticks support
* LeBlanc Support
* AD mid + AD top
* Kayle top, mid, jungle
* Kennen AD
* Tryndamere AP

All of that will be lost if you set roles like this. Riot has stated several times over they want to avoid cementing the roles than they already have been.

Why would that be lost?

You queue up as a jungler set as your role, and now you'll simply be the one to jungle. No champion restrictions.

But yeah, this'd be a great idea to avoid all this -- but to be honest, the damage would be greater because it'll truly set the meta in stone for good.