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  1. #21
    Fluffy Kitten Rivin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nando1991 View Post
    Too much to ask for a link where GC said this?
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...1?page=80#1591

  2. #22
    Field Marshal bacildaf's Avatar
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    At last some buff...





    Quote Originally Posted by Reith View Post
    It's way better than nothing that's for damn sure - and they still aren't done with single-target DPS stuff and haven't even gotten to AOE stuff yet.
    Its like 1 week before the patch what are they waiting to tune aoe damage...

  3. #23
    The Patient Prometheous's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mormolyce View Post
    And maybe give Ret Paladins the abilities of every other class in the game while you're at it?
    I am getting sick of people asking for the same. I get that they want to be the best class in the game but Im tired of uneducated players making claims that one thing is broke and we need something completely absurd. We need minor buffs and changes to be relevant again, perhaps a spec unique utility buff to sac or devotion aura.

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  4. #24
    5% da,age buff and people are complaining? I don't know about you guys but its pretty significant with the other changes. They really need to focus on making rets tankier though, being trained every single game is ridiculous for a plate wearing "defensive" hybrid

  5. #25
    Stood in the Fire Cronosmash's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mormolyce View Post
    And maybe give Ret Paladins the abilities of every other class in the game while you're at it?
    Read my other post for why this is needed for rated PVP.
    "I notice my rating actually boosts when I remember to have fun. Playing competitively while also enjoying yourself and focussing on having good games instead of getting rating is way more important.
    After 2.2k the fun devolves into a twisted realm suffering and despair and you will quit pvp from extreme traumatic stress and you will probably xfer to Moon Guard and join some Belf rp guild and become a prostitute in Silvermoon."by Clukclukbewm

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by bacildaf View Post
    Its like 1 week before the patch what are they waiting to tune aoe damage...
    More likely 2 weeks. And they're churning out these changes pretty fast.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-26 at 07:25 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by itals View Post
    5% da,age buff and people are complaining? I don't know about you guys but its pretty significant with the other changes. They really need to focus on making rets tankier though, being trained every single game is ridiculous for a plate wearing "defensive" hybrid
    It's more like a 3-3.5% buff but yeah, it's a buff.

  7. #27
    Sword of Light buff too 15% is okay, im afraid its not enough, but hell, its a buff and we'll take it! Thank you GC.


    We got our healing back, and some better damage, its going the right way folks! I for one are alot happier with my Ret paladin than before they started working on 5.2.

  8. #28
    Dreadlord ipoststuff's Avatar
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    Still we need something for RBGs.

    I think 1min cd aura mastery could do it.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Cronosmash View Post
    Now Ret only needs:

    1) Divine Protection or Hand of Freedom remove Stun or Fear or Silence or Umbreakable Spirit Baseline - Ret is too vulnerable against any control

    2) Absolve goes to Hand os Salvation - is horrible to compete with Sacrifice

    3) Instant Repentance or 1 min Blind - Ret needs peels

    4) Knockback or Smoke or Solar or Grip - for RBGs

    Done.

    i am playing in EU but u in US and i see your posts in US forum so plz post that for me maybe GC see it

    what ret pala need is something the other meele dont have i will not say smoke or grip but even something like the old aura it will be help us to let the RBG leaders think about us to join the team

  10. #30
    I am Murloc! Huntingbear_grimbatol's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reith View Post
    Yep... I called it. We might not need anymore than this for single target, but we'll see.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-26 at 01:40 PM ----------


    It's way better than nothing that's for damn sure - and they still aren't done with single-target DPS stuff and haven't even gotten to AOE stuff yet.

    Oh and this gives more of a bonus to Divine Purpose and Holy Avenger than Sanctified Wrath, so there's that.
    I tweeted GC asking if this buff was intended to help Ret single target dps or aoe dps and if there were more changes in the works. No answer yet.
    Obviously 5% increase in wep scaling is gonna help every aspect of our damage output but our single target and aoe is still pretty poor, then there's the issue with our T15 4set ONLY effecting single target which means if your raid don't need cleave dps you shouldn't cleave dps so you can have your 4set working.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-27 at 09:18 AM ----------

    5.2 is gonna hit at the 12th (US) and 13th (EU) if they push it. I'm guessing 19th/20th because they're still not completely done with PTR testing and they're only now starting to look at scaling factors for many of the dps specs.
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  11. #31
    Warchief Velshin's Avatar
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    Yaaay remember my previous posts guys about just 5% increase will be very good start to fix our overall dmg and finally it will happen. As the others said it may not be super duper buff but it's better than nothing since it's scaling with our weapon dmg that means crusader and templar will hit harder than now which is great change in my opinion.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Therm View Post
    1) Ret doesn't need 3 trinkets, that would be so over powered.
    2) if used right, sacing your healer out of CC in turn makes you un CCable or lets your healer cleanse your other partner out of CC
    3) Repent cast is fine, ret peels are more use in correct Hand spells, tho it could be a bit better I guess
    4) reroll those classes if you want those. They don't want every spec having the same thing
    That's a fine way to say that you don't pvp or don't have enough experience from it.

    1) One does not simply use DS as trinket in rated pvp. Furthermore, most specs have more than 1 "trinket".
    2) It's a fine tool but added to wrong spell. It destroys the real purpose of HoSac if you have to save it for dispels. Salvation would be way better.
    3) There is nothing fine in it. It's a talent ONLY for holy paladins atm. Instant, 6 sec duration, 1 minute cd would be fine. Cast time is retarded. Blinding light is not even remotely as good as repentance was. Hand spells can hardly be called peels because they are bad for it. We need peels that prevent opponents from catching or attacking our team mates completely for a moment.
    4) Is it wrong to suggest things that make rets viable? Homogenization is a word that is only used against rets these days. We lack too much of what others have and for that reason we need more than most others.
    Last edited by Johnmatrix; 2013-02-27 at 11:21 AM.

  13. #33
    Field Marshal Zeranox's Avatar
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    It's a nice buff but I'm still waiting for HoW having 60% bonus crit chanse again but it will only get the increased crit chanse against 20% or lower targets. Either that or a glyph of HoW: Gives HoW 60% higher chanse to crit but no longer gives a charge of holy power. Thoughts?

  14. #34
    The idea here is:

    1) On Divine Prot to remove something (or some effect) is the same as Icebound removing Stun, Berserking Rege removing Fear, Barkskin usable while stuned, Shamanistic Rage being way more powerfull and Cloak making immune to most CCs.
    Those are their defensive cooldowns (with the exception of berserker rage) and we would take the same risks as them if we used divine shield to break a CC or immune ourselves to CC. It's not like cloaking a sheep (for example) is a no brainer thing to do, because the Rogue can die at any given time if s/he gets caught out of position without CD's. Sure, they're shorter cooldowns, but they're still big risks.

    2) The biggest point of Hand of Sacrifice is to have a defensive CD on a focused target. If your DPS friend is going down, you use Sac on him for instance. With Absolve we have the option to remove a CC from the healer so he gets your DPS firend UP. But then the Defensive CD utility from Sac is wasted. So this is only good if your healer is being focused and on CC. On Salv you can mitigate with a tool and dispel with another. Don't say this is OP, think about MASS DISPEL SPriest have.
    Effectively, HoS was our CC breaker if timed correctly the difference now is that it's got added utility to clean our allies of magical debuffs. It's down to choice on how you use it, you're not forced to hold it back until you need to sack a CC. Sometimes using it to break a sheep cast on you or assisting somebody by transferring damage through enemy CD's will be far more effective than saving it to dispel something. Just because divine purpose in WOTLK broke stuns didn't mean you had to save it for every single stun. It's added utility to increase how effective it. You need to stop seeing it through the eyes of 'well they've got it, why can't we?'We're not Shadowpriests, we're Paladins. Besides, many people agree that Shadow is considered overpowered in PvP

    3) Ret peels are not realiable as Hands since the CDs are way to long and there is Forberance, dispelable, and Protection only mitigates physical. Nothing gives better peels than CC. Period. An Area Fear can save your life better than Divine Shield. At least Blind on 1 min CD makes sense. And makes the 5) I gonna include here.
    How can you say an AoE fear can save yourself/your partner every time? It's completely situational. What you forget is that other classes can't heal as much as Ret can in short bursts either. I'd say those 150-200k flash heals are considered peels too... Especially when you're able to do other stuff like switch to seal of justice to slow and using hand of freedom on your partner.

    Your other examples are just comparing apples and oranges again. Paladins aren't DK's, Moonkins etc and have different utility/work differently. Sure, some of our utility is useless in a RBG scenario, but the real reason a Ret isn't brought is because it's too similar to a Holy Paladin in terms of utility, not because it doesn't have some super short CD, area of effect dispel that also CC's everyone

    I get a really pessimistic vibe from your posts and I feel you wouldn't be happy unless Ret was overpowered (considering your ideas to make Ret 'viable' in this and previous posts). These changes to Ret are really good and you need to look at what you actually have instead of what you don't have. If the spec doesn't offer you what you want from a spec then perhaps you need to find another one that does.

  15. #35
    Warchief Velshin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeranox View Post
    It's a nice buff but I'm still waiting for HoW having 60% bonus crit chanse again but it will only get the increased crit chanse against 20% or lower targets. Either that or a glyph of HoW: Gives HoW 60% higher chanse to crit but no longer gives a charge of holy power. Thoughts?
    I disagree with having a glyph that increase HoW 60% to critc but not giving holy power because in my opinion the way we are gaining holy power at the moment is more fluid and way better than Cata holy power system. We don't need critc buff tbh all we needed was a flat 5% more dmg overall which they will do it with sword of light which is very good buff.

  16. #36
    I know the game won't be any better because of it, nobody wants everyone to have everything.. but the alternative is taking away and you know they won't do that.
    So having said that, Ret NEEDs an AoE something... anything for the sake of RBGs.

    The only things that are somewhat unique: AoE disarm or AoE silence.

  17. #37
    High Overlord Strear's Avatar
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    As a unique thing, I'd like something working as Spell reflect, but that instead would reflect any spell damage to the team in a 20 m radius (or melee damage, but not both) as healing, targetting all our teammates in a 30m radius for 3 sec. It's the idea, I'm not good with numbers to know if it would be correct or not in terms of power.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Mormolyce View Post
    And maybe give Ret Paladins the abilities of every other class in the game while you're at it?

    Why not? All we ever get is hand-me-downs and shiny animations. When Blizzard actually bothers to design a new and interesting ability for Ret, then we won't ask for what other classes have. A new and innovative mechanic hasn't been given to Ret in ummm well... ever. Every expansion they just shuffle around how our damage and healing work a little bit, give us something (like an interrupt or a snare) which every other melee has had since day 1 of WoW, and maybe some crappy CC like Blinding Light, which is complete crap for a melee since good healers aren't dumb enough to come next to you for CC chains.

    Here is the general flow chart for commenting on Ret PvP:

    If you feel anything other than pity for Rets -> don't post on PvP topics because you're obviously horrible.

  19. #39
    Pandaren Monk
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crayo View Post
    Those are their defensive cooldowns (with the exception of berserker rage) and we would take the same risks as them if we used divine shield to break a CC or immune ourselves to CC. It's not like cloaking a sheep (for example) is a no brainer thing to do, because the Rogue can die at any given time if s/he gets caught out of position without CD's. Sure, they're shorter cooldowns, but they're still big risks.



    Effectively, HoS was our CC breaker if timed correctly the difference now is that it's got added utility to clean our allies of magical debuffs. It's down to choice on how you use it, you're not forced to hold it back until you need to sack a CC. Sometimes using it to break a sheep cast on you or assisting somebody by transferring damage through enemy CD's will be far more effective than saving it to dispel something. Just because divine purpose in WOTLK broke stuns didn't mean you had to save it for every single stun. It's added utility to increase how effective it. You need to stop seeing it through the eyes of 'well they've got it, why can't we?'We're not Shadowpriests, we're Paladins. Besides, many people agree that Shadow is considered overpowered in PvP



    How can you say an AoE fear can save yourself/your partner every time? It's completely situational. What you forget is that other classes can't heal as much as Ret can in short bursts either. I'd say those 150-200k flash heals are considered peels too... Especially when you're able to do other stuff like switch to seal of justice to slow and using hand of freedom on your partner.

    Your other examples are just comparing apples and oranges again. Paladins aren't DK's, Moonkins etc and have different utility/work differently. Sure, some of our utility is useless in a RBG scenario, but the real reason a Ret isn't brought is because it's too similar to a Holy Paladin in terms of utility, not because it doesn't have some super short CD, area of effect dispel that also CC's everyone

    I get a really pessimistic vibe from your posts and I feel you wouldn't be happy unless Ret was overpowered (considering your ideas to make Ret 'viable' in this and previous posts). These changes to Ret are really good and you need to look at what you actually have instead of what you don't have. If the spec doesn't offer you what you want from a spec then perhaps you need to find another one that does.
    How is aoe fear any more situational than an AOE blind? Hell, fear is flat out better. It doesn't instantly break, and the CC is usually more than 8 seconds on melee because they run to at least like 20 yards away, sometimes like 50. 150k Flash heals will only happen if they train your partner, which they won't do. They will train you, battle Fatigue you, and Mortal Strike you, and your healing will still be meh compared to defensive CD's.

    The problem is not that the spec does not offer what we want, its that it does not offer NECESSARY things for meaningul pvp. Did you see the amount of Ret Paladins that got gladiator compared to mages, druids, WARRIORS, and hunters?

    We aren't just complaining to complain. We are complaining because like 1-2% of gladiators this season were Ret. And I would be willing to bet they camped rating after cheesing up there with a hunter or warrior before stampede/TFB nerfs and holy power healing nerfs.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUntsAhts View Post
    We aren't just complaining to complain. We are complaining because like 1-2% of gladiators this season were Ret. And I would be willing to bet they camped rating after cheesing up there with a hunter or warrior before stampede/TFB nerfs and holy power healing nerfs.
    The only one that I know of that didn't do that is Vanguards.

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