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  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by nzall View Post
    have you seen my above post?

    try it yourself. log into the live servers with a prot/ret paladin. take off all your gear, but leave your 2H on. use seal of insight and judge a dummy a few times. it'll always hit for the same. then switch spec, keep your 2H on, keep seal of insight on and judge a few times again. I can tell you right now that Ret will hit for exactly 10% more than prot, which is only explainable by SoL.
    That is interesting. Are you sure Judgment isn't scaling with something else between specs? Perhaps the Judgments of the bold passive?

    If Judgment does scale with the SoL buff it is very welcome.

  2. #62
    The Lightbringer Requital's Avatar
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    Ok there is a bunch of confusion in this thread and how some of you play a Ret completely baffles me. I'm going to make this short and sweet and hope that people realize and research a little before randomly posting nonsense.

    1. Ret has 1 count them 1 attack on the spell hit table that is exorcism.

    2. Judgement while being a spell falls under all the melee attack rules and has for a very long time.

    3. Hammer of Wrath also a spell that uses the melee attack rules also has for a long time.

    4. Everything we do is affected by SoL accept Exorcism & Censure

    Sincerely, Incarnate Ret Paladins. & Neldarie
    Last edited by Requital; 2013-03-01 at 05:19 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Boubouille View Post
    Can you imagine if someone insulted you in a thread, you reported it, and I told you "sorry, wrong thread to be butthurt"?

  3. #63
    Stood in the Fire Neldarie's Avatar
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    ^ + censure (can add last tier stuff too but meh I guess that's too minor Hammer/ExecS/Prism)

    And ye Judgement used to follow the double (spell/melee) attack mechanic for a VERY long time. Those farming AQ40 for mog or other reasons may remember that from Twin Emperors
    Last edited by Neldarie; 2013-03-01 at 05:41 AM.
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  4. #64
    The Lightbringer Requital's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neldarie View Post
    ^ + censure
    I didn't really think about adding censure to the list, Then after re-reading the posts I decided I better do it to be safe.
    Quote Originally Posted by Boubouille View Post
    Can you imagine if someone insulted you in a thread, you reported it, and I told you "sorry, wrong thread to be butthurt"?

  5. #65
    oh Requital why didn't you include me, I feel so cold and alone, but I agree with his statement completely.

  6. #66
    I am Murloc! Huntingbear_grimbatol's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lethora View Post
    You are wrong. It's "all damage done while 2H is equipped".
    Sword of Light increases weapon damage by 15%
    That increases damge on our auto attacks (obviously) and SOME of our abilities.
    Censure is not one of them for instance but the raw seal damages do (afaik)
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  7. #67
    Pandaren Monk Velshin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huntingbear_grimbatol View Post
    Sword of Light increases weapon damage by 15%
    That increases damge on our auto attacks (obviously) and SOME of our abilities.
    Censure is not one of them for instance but the raw seal damages do (afaik)

    Yup including crusader strike, templar verdict, and HoR.

  8. #68
    The Lightbringer Requital's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vigilanti View Post
    oh Requital why didn't you include me, I feel so cold and alone, but I agree with his statement completely.
    Because you were not hassling me via real id like some other Rets. TBH I thought every knew this since it's been active since like forever ago.
    Quote Originally Posted by Boubouille View Post
    Can you imagine if someone insulted you in a thread, you reported it, and I told you "sorry, wrong thread to be butthurt"?

  9. #69
    Fluffy Kitten Rivin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Requital View Post
    2. Judgement while being a spell falls under all the melee attack rules and has for a very long time.

    3. Hammer of Wrath also a spell that uses the melee attack rules also has for a long time.
    Neither Judgment or Hammer of Wrath are spells. Judgment is a melee attack and has been for some time; it was a ranged attack for a while, though.

    Hammer of Wrath is a ranged attack, thus why the MoP change to the ranged attack table made it able to be dodged. It can be silenced because haha consistency what is that?

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by Rivin View Post
    Neither Judgment or Hammer of Wrath are spells. Judgment is a melee attack and has been for some time; it was a ranged attack for a while, though.

    Hammer of Wrath is a ranged attack, thus why the MoP change to the ranged attack table made it able to be dodged. It can be silenced because haha consistency what is that?
    Inconsistencies are our lot. Both tooltips for these abilities state them as spell, magical damage (holy) but yet treated like a melee attack concerning our mechanics and scalings. You can cast a J/HoW when disarmed, but not when silenced. See, they are spells. Both are upgraded by our Sword of light passive, see? they are melee.

    In terms of armor mitigation and damage done : magical
    In terms of stats/scaling/hit+exp-cap/GCD : they are melee
    Those are tricky, no one should stand : it's a spell! NO it's melee.. But better understand the whole lot of inconsistencies and make do with it. Which is what Requital tried to do.
    Last edited by metasaigneur; 2013-03-01 at 05:21 PM.

  11. #71
    Fluffy Kitten Rivin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by metasaigneur View Post
    Inconsistencies are our lot. Both tooltips for these abilities state them as spell, magical damage (holy) but yet treated like a melee attack concerning our mechanics and scalings. You can cast a J/HoW when disarmed, but not when silenced. See, they are spells. Both are upgraded by our Sword of light passive, see? they are melee.
    The fact that melee and ranged attacks can deal magical damage can be tricky. Dealing magical damage doesn't make something a spell (and, similarly, dealing physical damage doesn't make something a melee attack, although no player spells deal physical damage).

    Basically, the combat table determines if an attack is melee, ranged, or spell, and the spell school determines what type of damage the attack deals (physical is treated as a spell school by the game mechanics). By combat table, Judgment is a melee attack and Hammer of Wrath is a ranged attack. By spell school, both are holy, which means they deal holy damage.

    Silences are determined on a by-spell basis, though, so that can make it trickier to determine what an ability is. Normally melee and ranged attacks can't be silenced, but some, like Hammer of Wrath and Thunder Clap, can be.

  12. #72
    The Lightbringer Requital's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rivin View Post
    Neither Judgment or Hammer of Wrath are spells. Judgment is a melee attack and has been for some time; it was a ranged attack for a while, though.

    Hammer of Wrath is a ranged attack, thus why the MoP change to the ranged attack table made it able to be dodged. It can be silenced because haha consistency what is that?
    Now you're simply posting semantics, Which has nothing to do with Seal of Light. However yes if you must insist on classifying them.

    - Hammer of Wrath & Judgment are both Ranged melee attacks!

    - Hammer of Wrath can Miss or be Dodged but cannot be Parried!

    - Seal of Light doesn't effect Censure & Exorcism

    - The end
    Last edited by Requital; 2013-03-01 at 05:43 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Boubouille View Post
    Can you imagine if someone insulted you in a thread, you reported it, and I told you "sorry, wrong thread to be butthurt"?

  13. #73
    Fluffy Kitten Rivin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Requital View Post
    - Judgement and Hammer of Wrath are both Ranged melee attacks that can Miss or be Dodged but cannot be Parried.
    Judgment can't be dodged or parried.

  14. #74
    The Lightbringer Requital's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rivin View Post
    Judgment can't be dodged or parried.
    Damn Clipboard!!!!!!!!!! fixed I'm just going to post on my computer mobile devices always do what they want.
    Last edited by Requital; 2013-03-01 at 05:43 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Boubouille View Post
    Can you imagine if someone insulted you in a thread, you reported it, and I told you "sorry, wrong thread to be butthurt"?

  15. #75
    i won't lie, i really don't see a point to this argument, you're covered if you cap Exp and Hit regardless, although this is really educational for the people that were unaware I don't really see where this is going.

  16. #76
    The Lightbringer Requital's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vigilanti View Post
    i won't lie, i really don't see a point to this argument, you're covered if you cap Exp and Hit regardless, although this is really educational for the people that were unaware I don't really see where this is going.
    The first 3 pages of a lot of confused Ret arguing with one person that actually knew what they were talking about but hopefully by now it's been solved.
    Quote Originally Posted by Boubouille View Post
    Can you imagine if someone insulted you in a thread, you reported it, and I told you "sorry, wrong thread to be butthurt"?

  17. #77
    Dreadlord ipoststuff's Avatar
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    Hammer of Wrath might be a spell :/ I doesnt go through cloak of shadow nor can it be cast while silenced.

  18. #78
    well yes HoW can be silenced while judgement is a range melee attack , so probably a spell !
    Wait !!!! what ?????

  19. #79
    I leave this thread more confused than when I entered it....

    :O
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  20. #80
    Pandaren Monk
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    Quote Originally Posted by ipoststuff View Post
    Hammer of Wrath might be a spell :/ I doesnt go through cloak of shadow nor can it be cast while silenced.
    That doesn't qualify it as a spell. It does magic damage, thus cloak lowers it by 90%, and totems are a physical ability but can't be done while silenced, much like our ranged melee attacks. What WOULD qualify it as a spell is if it followed the spell hit requirements.

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